Jump to content


Can we please have the Italian Tanks Buffed

Raibot Paingod Wargaming Developers Italian Italian Tanks Buff

  • Please log in to reply
26 replies to this topic

F1DrivingZombie #1 Posted 04 April 2019 - 02:13 PM

    Private

  • Players
  • 10638 battles
  • 9
  • Member since:
    08-21-2013
I know this has been brought up multiple multiple times so far but why, WHY were the Italian Tanks nerfed so hard? I was looking forward to playing them and absolutely could not wait to get my hands on them, that is until I’ve played them. I haven’t gotten the Progetto 65 yet, but I’m close. The Standard B is the least competitive tier 9 medium tank in the game as well. How can it have a single shot autoreloader and still manage to have the DPM of a tier 6? It’s absolutely ridiculous to me! I’m still going to get the Progetto 65 but by playing the Standard B my expectations are so low it’s probably not possible to be disappointed because I have no expectations! I can say the at tier 8 I would much rather have played Pershing or T-44 or my Centurion, at tier 9 I’d much rather play the T54E1, or the T-54, or the M46 Patton. I’m also fairly certain at this point I’d rather play the M48 or Obj 140 at tier 10. What’s the point of adding a new line if it’s not competitive? It can’t compete with the single shot tanks, as it’s single shot dpm is abysmal, and it doesn’t have the autoloading clip potential to compete with autoloaders, and to reload the entire magazine takes longer than an autoloader! So what’s the point of these things?! Can we have a response rather than being ignored?

MaxChaos24 #2 Posted 04 April 2019 - 02:20 PM

    Gameplay Expert

  • Administrator
  • 12862 battles
  • 20,219
  • [WGW]
  • Member since:
    09-15-2013

View PostF1DrivingZombie, on 04 April 2019 - 10:13 AM, said:

I know this has been brought up multiple multiple times so far but why, WHY were the Italian Tanks nerfed so hard? I was looking forward to playing them and absolutely could not wait to get my hands on them, that is until I’ve played them. I haven’t gotten the Progetto 65 yet, but I’m close. The Standard B is the least competitive tier 9 medium tank in the game as well. How can it have a single shot autoreloader and still manage to have the DPM of a tier 6? It’s absolutely ridiculous to me! I’m still going to get the Progetto 65 but by playing the Standard B my expectations are so low it’s probably not possible to be disappointed because I have no expectations! I can say the at tier 8 I would much rather have played Pershing or T-44 or my Centurion, at tier 9 I’d much rather play the T54E1, or the T-54, or the M46 Patton. I’m also fairly certain at this point I’d rather play the M48 or Obj 140 at tier 10. What’s the point of adding a new line if it’s not competitive? It can’t compete with the single shot tanks, as it’s single shot dpm is abysmal, and it doesn’t have the autoloading clip potential to compete with autoloaders, and to reload the entire magazine takes longer than an autoloader! So what’s the point of these things?! Can we have a response rather than being ignored?

 

Hello, we did an article to address this. You can view it here: :honoring:
https://console.worl...italian-balance

DwarfOnDrugs #3 Posted 04 April 2019 - 03:00 PM

    Major

  • Players
  • 30408 battles
  • 2,292
  • [-UNL-]
  • Member since:
    03-12-2014

View PostMaxChaos24, on 04 April 2019 - 02:20 PM, said:

 

Hello, we did an article to address this. You can view it here: :honoring:
https://console.worl...italian-balance

 

‘We are different from PC’

*Nerfs tanks based on PC meta*

Come on bruv.

The italian tanks are so underpowered it is funny. They are hardly played on PC as is, on console it will be a dead TT. Just like the 121, WZ (TD) and TVP.

How long until the paper stats for console are released?


 


MASHMAN 90 #4 Posted 04 April 2019 - 03:10 PM

    Major

  • WoTC Ambassador
  • 35614 battles
  • 12,022
  • Member since:
    02-21-2014

View PostMaxChaos24, on 04 April 2019 - 02:20 PM, said:

 

Hello, we did an article to address this. You can view it here: :honoring:
https://console.worl...italian-balance

 

How about the Tortoise? Will it ever get a Buff (Then i can wait) or should i suffer through it for the Deathstar and Badger? It's mainly the Cupola (for me) what needs a Buff.

i generally post more News on Twitter these days but "may" post on Forum from time to time on my Future Vehicles Thread

http://forum-console.worldoftanks.com/index.php?/topic/205056-future-update-vehicle-changes/ 

 

Disclaimer Below: Read the Spoiler, If you don't and assume i'm 100% Truthful then it's not my problem.


MaxChaos24 #5 Posted 04 April 2019 - 03:21 PM

    Gameplay Expert

  • Administrator
  • 12862 battles
  • 20,219
  • [WGW]
  • Member since:
    09-15-2013

View PostMASHMAN 90, on 04 April 2019 - 11:10 AM, said:

 

How about the Tortoise? Will it ever get a Buff (Then i can wait) or should i suffer through it for the Deathstar and Badger? It's mainly the Cupola (for me) what needs a Buff.

Possibly in the future but doesn't sound like it needs any changes so might not happen.

https://console.worldoftanks.com/en/news/battle-heroes-january-29

Is there a reason why the Tortoise didn't get the armor buff like it did on PC?

  • PC updated the collision model of their Tortoise recently; we’re currently using the older model and, with a 51% win rate, it is doing pretty well.


Sadriel Fett #6 Posted 04 April 2019 - 03:24 PM

    Major

  • Supertest - Xbox One
  • 26605 battles
  • 4,999
  • [A4C]
  • Member since:
    02-12-2014
I just keep hoping they over-nerfed them, so it'll be easier to buff them once they start getting real feedback from usage on the console, instead of using the PC stats.  People don't complain as much when their tanks are buffed.  If they kept them as they were with PC stats, then ended up having to nerf them, alot more people would lose their freaking minds after grinding all the way up the line.

 

~ There's no such thing as "Arty Safe."  You have to play "Arty Aware."  You have to play "SmArty." ~

~ The worst enemies you will ever face in this game are your own team mates. ~


MASHMAN 90 #7 Posted 04 April 2019 - 03:24 PM

    Major

  • WoTC Ambassador
  • 35614 battles
  • 12,022
  • Member since:
    02-21-2014

View PostMaxChaos24, on 04 April 2019 - 03:21 PM, said:

Possibly in the future but doesn't sound like it needs any changes so might not happen.

https://console.worldoftanks.com/en/news/battle-heroes-january-29

Is there a reason why the Tortoise didn't get the armor buff like it did on PC?

  • PC updated the collision model of their Tortoise recently; we’re currently using the older model and, with a 51% win rate, it is doing pretty well.

 

Hmm ok so not a definite Yes or No. One of my fears is grinding it (knowing i don't like it) then soon after gets a Buff.

i generally post more News on Twitter these days but "may" post on Forum from time to time on my Future Vehicles Thread

http://forum-console.worldoftanks.com/index.php?/topic/205056-future-update-vehicle-changes/ 

 

Disclaimer Below: Read the Spoiler, If you don't and assume i'm 100% Truthful then it's not my problem.


Vampire_Izumi #8 Posted 04 April 2019 - 03:39 PM

    Major

  • Players
  • 25491 battles
  • 2,937
  • [LEONI]
  • Member since:
    12-06-2015

View PostMaxChaos24, on 05 April 2019 - 12:21 AM, said:

Possibly in the future but doesn't sound like it needs any changes so might not happen.

https://console.worldoftanks.com/en/news/battle-heroes-january-29

Is there a reason why the Tortoise didn't get the armor buff like it did on PC?

  • PC updated the collision model of their Tortoise recently; we’re currently using the older model and, with a 51% win rate, it is doing pretty well.

 

may i ask how is the Wraith doing compared to other mediums?

just curious :)


    A lie about a lie turns inside out upon itself. - Magane chikujoin   

Marks of Excellence:


matematicalone #9 Posted 04 April 2019 - 04:47 PM

    First lieutenant

  • Players
  • 1986 battles
  • 694
  • Member since:
    11-15-2017
Italian tech tree as it is, is at the bottom of my interest for research. i don't have premium account so I have to choose my silver spendings very carefuly. So sadly I will probably never have chance to try one. maybe after a year or two when wg finally decides to buff them.


 


Sledge1Swede #10 Posted 04 April 2019 - 05:19 PM

    Captain

  • Players
  • 50340 battles
  • 1,499
  • [CH4OS]
  • Member since:
    02-20-2017

View PostMaxChaos24, on 04 April 2019 - 02:20 PM, said:

 

Hello, we did an article to address this. You can view it here: :honoring:
https://console.worl...italian-balance

 

Take a look at the current player base and dig deep in to why players jump ship from wot consol i am not supriced the current tank balance is a big joke and really i cant understand why it is so important to be so stuck in the differ from PC .

 

Italian tanks is not the worst tanks in the game no the worst tanks in the game is the light tanks that loads clip after clip out when on the move whithout even missing one shoot and then skips away unharmed due to mobility and your own turret rotation speed and aiming time cant cope up with them ......

 

It is just stupid to even try.



TripleFFFG #11 Posted 04 April 2019 - 06:08 PM

    Staff sergeant

  • Players
  • 44161 battles
  • 490
  • Member since:
    11-02-2014

If you do not have a vested interest in this line (STE for example), it is a tough grind. It will teach you how to NOT depend on your armor. It will teach you how to pop and shoot behind cover. It will teach you how to travel with friends, and don't expect to hold a flank unless you have excellent cover or support. Don't expect to clip out a tank unless it is about 50% health. Don't expect to brawl like a Russian tank. It will teach you patience behind cover. It will show you how well the rest of the autoloaders in the game work compared to this line. It will show how bad a reload time can be. It will teach you how to conserve 1 shot in the tube. 

If this sounds a an adventure you wish to pursue, WELCOME to the Italian line.

As far as the data in the charts, I will assume it was gathered from really experienced tankers not the general populace. One thing to remember that is taught in management seminars, if you want to control the outcome(results) of a report(chart) or a meeting, you control the input. (Who is invited to participate)

When CC's and other streamers complain about reload time, heed their warnings.

If I have misrepresented something here and your opinion differs, well it is my opinion.

If you care to add your thoughts feel free to do so



Baby Gengar #12 Posted 04 April 2019 - 09:33 PM

    Sergeant

  • Players
  • 28223 battles
  • 223
  • Member since:
    02-06-2014

View PostTripleFFFG, on 04 April 2019 - 01:08 PM, said:

If you do not have a vested interest in this line (STE for example), it is a tough grind. It will teach you how to NOT depend on your armor. It will teach you how to pop and shoot behind cover. It will teach you how to travel with friends, and don't expect to hold a flank unless you have excellent cover or support. Don't expect to clip out a tank unless it is about 50% health. Don't expect to brawl like a Russian tank. It will teach you patience behind cover. It will show you how well the rest of the autoloaders in the game work compared to this line. It will show how bad a reload time can be. It will teach you how to conserve 1 shot in the tube. 

If this sounds a an adventure you wish to pursue, WELCOME to the Italian line.

As far as the data in the charts, I will assume it was gathered from really experienced tankers not the general populace. One thing to remember that is taught in management seminars, if you want to control the outcome(results) of a report(chart) or a meeting, you control the input. (Who is invited to participate)

When CC's and other streamers complain about reload time, heed their warnings.

If I have misrepresented something here and your opinion differs, well it is my opinion.

If you care to add your thoughts feel free to do so

 

Whoa! Well I can't argue your logic or opinion.  I do agree with what you say.  I have been frustrated with playing the Italian line, but as with any other line you play, you must learn the pro and cons, advantages and drawbacks of the tank and adapt to the play style.  If not, they you die, over and over and over again.  Some blame the game or the reds or whatever, but if you do not adapt your play style then you my friend are a fool.  So, I fully agree with TripleFFFG and his statements. Roll Out :)

two gaming bros #13 Posted 04 April 2019 - 10:22 PM

    Corporal

  • Players
  • 23255 battles
  • 19
  • [-NS-]
  • Member since:
    02-12-2014
Where is the average PC medium DPG and why are you comparing P44 to Ariete? If anything use the stats from the PC M35 Mod 46 to make even a slight comparison. How is there not some accounting for the differences from PC? What is the n-value of the total data set and the strata that you are comparing? I notice that some of the data for the standard B is weird where the DPG is lower for 60% versus 59% that's why I ask. Is the winrate of the players in question taken from a sample with at least 5000 battles played in order to account for burgeoning players or does it look at recent statistics, does it account for platoons? How is the diffference in 5 man versus 3 man platoons balanced taken into account? Even then, are the winrates of the players in your sample tied to their winrate in mediums or heavies? I understand that the point is to showcase an acknowledgement of player skill but these are still important or at least get my point across that I do not understand how winrate is the be all end all stat here to determine nerfs and buffs. Why are you comparing all mediums of a tier and not showing the averages of vehicles with similar playstyles as well for reference? Do you guys have a buffer consultant for this before making decisions? I ask all of this because transparency is not showing some numbers and expecting it to clear up all confusion like what is happening here, there are whys involved that you need to expand upon when asked so that players don't feel stinted when they want to have a discourse over topics such as these.
              WN8 gets so purple it's hard to read lol

two gaming bros #14 Posted 04 April 2019 - 10:42 PM

    Corporal

  • Players
  • 23255 battles
  • 19
  • [-NS-]
  • Member since:
    02-12-2014
I got ahead of myself waxing on about proper statistic representation. I find that the Italian Meds need some love, especially in the first reload department so that it is more still based. I think The P44 has like an 11.5 second base reload for the first shot and that is way too bad to be competitive and detracts from the fact that it's supposed to be a detriment to dump the clip, let people have the flexibility that you talk about because there currently isn't any, you just simply don't have the resources. I like the first reload on the first turret though, 7.5 with rammer, BIA works and I had to think about dumping both shots or not but 9.8 with rammer, BIA is just too slow and leads to the feeling of "better dump while I can, I'll be sitting here regardless". You guys have a lot to work around with this rather complex mechanic and I will not lie that I have very little faith in your balance team to do so properly based on most of your previous decisions; however, I never lose faith in the act of redemption! Good luck getting these tanks squared away.
              WN8 gets so purple it's hard to read lol

MPC 2117 #15 Posted 05 April 2019 - 01:06 AM

    Major

  • Players
  • 17781 battles
  • 9,976
  • [KMD]
  • Member since:
    08-11-2013

View Postmatematicalone, on 04 April 2019 - 10:47 AM, said:

Italian tech tree as it is, is at the bottom of my interest for research. i don't have premium account so I have to choose my silver spendings very carefuly. So sadly I will probably never have chance to try one. maybe after a year or two when wg finally decides to buff them.

You'll be able to buy one probably sooner than you think. If we follow typical WG trends they'll release prem tanks that are just reskinned tech tree tanks soon enough.:teethhappy:


WE​ NEED MORE STUGS IN World of WhatisBalance...


TanglingToast76 #16 Posted 05 April 2019 - 09:42 AM

    Private

  • Players
  • 7427 battles
  • 2
  • [4-ATD]
  • Member since:
    02-14-2016
Will the progetto 46 stay in the store for an extended time as Raibot mentioned that after a month the data for the Italian tanks will be revised and may under go changes if/when this is to happen it is incredibly unfair as by the time the Italian tanks will be changed the progetto will no longer be on sale and there fore people that want the progetto yet are apprehensive about the DPM will not get a chance to purchase the tank.

DwarfOnDrugs #17 Posted 05 April 2019 - 12:06 PM

    Major

  • Players
  • 30408 battles
  • 2,292
  • [-UNL-]
  • Member since:
    03-12-2014

View PostSadriel Fett, on 04 April 2019 - 03:24 PM, said:

I just keep hoping they over-nerfed them, so it'll be easier to buff them once they start getting real feedback from usage on the console, instead of using the PC stats.  People don't complain as much when their tanks are buffed.  If they kept them as they were with PC stats, then ended up having to nerf them, alot more people would lose their freaking minds after grinding all the way up the line.

 

The issue with that is people buy thr tanks, realise they are bad, sell them. Then 1-2 months later have to buy them back and they have lost 3mil and 30 gold.

 


MASHMAN 90 #18 Posted 05 April 2019 - 12:47 PM

    Major

  • WoTC Ambassador
  • 35614 battles
  • 12,022
  • Member since:
    02-21-2014

View PostTanglingToast76, on 05 April 2019 - 09:42 AM, said:

Will the progetto 46 stay in the store for an extended time as Raibot mentioned that after a month the data for the Italian tanks will be revised and may under go changes if/when this is to happen it is incredibly unfair as by the time the Italian tanks will be changed the progetto will no longer be on sale and there fore people that want the progetto yet are apprehensive about the DPM will not get a chance to purchase the tank.

 

My guess would be that Progetto 46 would eventually appear in the Tech Tree (Same as 50 TP Proto if not there already).

i generally post more News on Twitter these days but "may" post on Forum from time to time on my Future Vehicles Thread

http://forum-console.worldoftanks.com/index.php?/topic/205056-future-update-vehicle-changes/ 

 

Disclaimer Below: Read the Spoiler, If you don't and assume i'm 100% Truthful then it's not my problem.


Plum1973 #19 Posted 05 April 2019 - 02:28 PM

    Staff sergeant

  • Players
  • 392 battles
  • 308
  • Member since:
    12-19-2018

Could you look on the Pz.III K ?

 

Can we expect that in the future this premium tank will receive PMM?

 

Same as VK.65.01 H and M4 Improved last time.

 

Thank you and have a nice day.

 

Link to Tankopedia

Pz.III K

https://console.worl...zKpfwIII_AusfK/

 

VK 65.01 (H)

https://console.worl...y/G122_VK6501H/

M4 Improved

https://console.worl...78_M4_Improved/


Rookie again

donny007-THX #20 Posted 05 April 2019 - 02:31 PM

    Major

  • Players
  • 21436 battles
  • 2,649
  • Member since:
    12-18-2017
All questions about tanks should be referred to The Spreadsheet.  It is on an IBM XT in a Chicago basement somewhere.
When a man with a .45 meets a man with a rifle, you said, the man with a pistol's a dead man. Let's see if that's true. Go ahead, load up and shoot.





Also tagged with Raibot, Paingod, Wargaming, Developers, Italian, Italian Tanks, Buff

2 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 2 guests, 0 anonymous users