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Today's Battle Heroes Discussion

Battle Heroes Tank Balance

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Pontiac Pat #1 Posted 17 April 2019 - 04:35 PM

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For those who didn't notice, today's Battle Heroes article includes a lot of good info about tank balancing.

In specific, it includes the graphs for win rate of the Pz.V/IV, Tiger 131 and Absolution.

 

The data shown was a bit surprising.  The Pz.V/IV and Tiger 131 are actually showing as balanced.  The Absolution, otoh, is clearly OP.

Let's discuss each briefly-
 

Pz. V/IV - How does this underperform for low skill players?  Is it that they are unaware of their health pool and simply get farmed?  How is it that the high skill players are pretty much right on expected win rate?  Is it because they play overly aggressive, knowing how powerful the tank really is, thus squandering their advantage for a barrel of laughs?

Tiger 131 - I have personally seen a lot of these doing very poorly in battle.  IMO, most players simply don't know how to make that DPM work and are afraid to use premium ammo when they need it.  It's not well armored for the tier, so it gets farmed easily when not played well.  However, it also doesn't really over perform with good players, suggesting more overly aggressive play by those who are willing to put that DPM and premium ammo to use.

Absolution - This is an across the board 1.5% Win Rate advantage.  So, does this mean it might actually get a nerf?  I'm genuinely curious whether WG will nerf a premium tank again.


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Sammael85 #2 Posted 17 April 2019 - 04:49 PM

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Oh, it's that time again!

 


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Akumahito #3 Posted 17 April 2019 - 04:52 PM

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Not to hijack... sorry.


Edited by Akumahito, 17 April 2019 - 04:53 PM.


skHydroFlasksk #4 Posted 17 April 2019 - 04:54 PM

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Yet people who average as well as they do in a tier 10 vehicle damage wise when playing their Tiger 131, have no problem explaining how and why the Tiger 131 is arguably the most overpowered tank in the game.

"I will rain death upon all who oppose me. I am the embodiment of sky cancer and I will make you rue the day you dare cross into my view and sit thy tank still. Some call me arty scum, but they are fools! I am become sky cancer the destroyer of balance and even if you close in to close range I will call upon the gods of rng and shotgun you into condemnation for no one will associate with a tanker who cannot take out an artillery."  -Unholy Lucipurr 2017 (dictated but not read)


BrogueOne #5 Posted 17 April 2019 - 04:56 PM

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I’m not surprised that the V/IV and 131 track as balanced(by WR).  Some people are truly bad, even in tanks that are easy to play well.  On the other hand, even the deepest purples can still get pooped on by other purples or swarms of potatoes.

Absolution though..... there’s not much they can do about it without causing a scandal.  Nerf the mobility? “Oh god, this thing sucks now” Nerf the RoF? “Now I can’t shoot my way out of a paper bag!”  Nerf the armor? “Apocalypse!!!!”  

I wonder if the easiest and safest way to nerf the Absolution would simply be to give it Lycan-Type MM.  

AnonymousHobo69 #6 Posted 17 April 2019 - 04:59 PM

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The graphs shown are practically useless and are a bad source to draw any conclusions from.

TocFanKe4 #7 Posted 17 April 2019 - 05:11 PM

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Max doesn't say if it's a recent capture, or if it's based on all historical data.  The Absolution data is of course going to be recent, but the 5/4 and 131 data could include years old information. 

 

These graphs are based on win rate, and don't take average damage into account.  The 131 looks like an upper middle tank if sorted by win rate on wotinfo, but then is the top average damage tank over 10k games played in recent stats.  It does about 300 damage per game more than the TT Tiger.  Looking at the recent stats, the TT Tiger looks underpowered. 

 

I'd say that the issue with win rate and the 5/4 is all about ramming.  This tank has been out for a while, and people aren't really playing it to win.  It's the Rammpanzer, so even good players just run in and ram everything. It's the top damage tank at tier 5.  If you throw your HP away for memes early, you're not going to win the game.  That's what is keeping the tank from looking like it's OP.  Not many players sit back, flank, and use the gun like a flanker medium is supposed to be played.  It's a meme tank that gets played for memes, not wins. 


Edited by TocFanKe4, 17 April 2019 - 05:14 PM.

 

The E25 was built for Shenanigans


TocFanKe4 #8 Posted 17 April 2019 - 05:13 PM

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View PostBrogueOne, on 17 April 2019 - 11:56 AM, said:

I’m not surprised that the V/IV and 131 track as balanced(by WR). Some people are truly bad, even in tanks that are easy to play well. On the other hand, even the deepest purples can still get pooped on by other purples or swarms of potatoes.

Absolution though..... there’s not much they can do about it without causing a scandal. Nerf the mobility? “Oh god, this thing sucks now” Nerf the RoF? “Now I can’t shoot my way out of a paper bag!” Nerf the armor? “Apocalypse!!!!”

I wonder if the easiest and safest way to nerf the Absolution would simply be to give it Lycan-Type MM.

 

I'd still say nerf the mobility.  Theres no way it should have that much armor and still be faster than the VK36.01 H.  The tank designers made a huge mistake giving it that kind of speed.  The VK36 should have been the reference point.  If you give it more armor than a VK36, then you have to nerf the speed to less than the VK36.

 

The E25 was built for Shenanigans


MaxChaos24 #9 Posted 17 April 2019 - 05:15 PM

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View PostTocFanKe4, on 17 April 2019 - 01:11 PM, said:

Max doesn't say if it's a recent capture, or if it's based on all historical data.  The Absolution data is of course going to be recent, but the 5/4 and 131 data could include years old information. 

 

These graphs are based on win rate, and don't take average damage into account.  The 131 looks like an upper middle tank if sorted by win rate on wotinfo, but then is the top average damage tank over 10k games played in recent stats.  It does about 300 damage per game more than the TT Tiger.  Looking at the recent stats, the TT Tiger looks underpowered. 

 

I'd say that the issue with win rate and the 5/4 is all about ramming.  This tank has been out for a while, and people aren't really playing it to win.  It's the Rammpanzer, so even good players just run in and ram everything. It's the top damage tank at tier 5.  If you throw your HP away for memes early, you're not going to win the game.  That's what is keeping the tank looking like it's OP.  Not many players sit back, flank, and use the gun like a flanker medium is supposed to be played.  It's a meme tank that gets played for memes, not wins. 

 

It's all recent data, the last 3 months to be exact. 

TocFanKe4 #10 Posted 17 April 2019 - 05:21 PM

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View PostMaxChaos24, on 17 April 2019 - 12:15 PM, said:

 

It's all recent data, the last 3 months to be exact. 

 

Thanks for clarifying that.  Hopefully you all can do something about the Absolution over performing. 

 

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John Arrowsmith #11 Posted 17 April 2019 - 05:27 PM

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So the other T7 heavies are being measured against  a  132.   It's no wonder the 131 is balanced.:trollface:

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MaxChaos24 #12 Posted 17 April 2019 - 05:28 PM

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View PostJohn Arrowsmith, on 17 April 2019 - 01:27 PM, said:

So the other T7 heavies are being measured against  a  132.   It's no wonder the 131 is balanced.:trollface:

 

Was wondering when someone was going to point that out haha. :P

MASHMAN 90 #13 Posted 17 April 2019 - 05:28 PM

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View PostTocFanKe4, on 17 April 2019 - 05:21 PM, said:

 

Thanks for clarifying that.  Hopefully you all can do something about the Absolution over performing. 

 

I would remove the spaced armour on the side then it's like the Panther M10, a bouncy front but weak sides and rear.

AskingCupid78 #14 Posted 17 April 2019 - 05:30 PM

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View PostBrogueOne, on 17 April 2019 - 04:56 PM, said:

I’m not surprised that the V/IV and 131 track as balanced(by WR). Some people are truly bad, even in tanks that are easy to play well. On the other hand, even the deepest purples can still get pooped on by other purples or swarms of potatoes.

Absolution though..... there’s not much they can do about it without causing a scandal. Nerf the mobility? “Oh god, this thing sucks now” Nerf the RoF? “Now I can’t shoot my way out of a paper bag!” Nerf the armor? “Apocalypse!!!!”

I wonder if the easiest and safest way to nerf the Absolution would simply be to give it Lycan-Type MM.

 

They nerfed the Oi "Kaiju", so go ahead and nerf the Absolution/Abomination.

Rubbelito #15 Posted 17 April 2019 - 05:30 PM

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View PostPontiac Pat, on 17 April 2019 - 06:35 PM, said:

 

Pz. V/IV - How does this underperform for low skill players?  Is it that they are unaware of their health pool and simply get farmed?  How is it that the high skill players are pretty much right on expected win rate?  Is it because they play overly aggressive, knowing how powerful the tank really is, thus squandering their advantage for a barrel of laughs?

 

I'm really not surprised tbh.

The 5/4 has extremely high battle weight which compensates its op'ness, as shown.

 

The Abso is clearly overperforming a bit. Not much to say about that. Nerf incoming.

 

The 131 on the other hand is a bit surprising (that the graph doesn't show higher wr), but on the other hand I'm not exactly sure how its battle weight is...?



John Arrowsmith #16 Posted 17 April 2019 - 05:31 PM

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View PostTocFanKe4, on 17 April 2019 - 05:21 PM, said:

 

Thanks for clarifying that.  Hopefully you all can do something about the Absolution over performing. 

 

View PostMASHMAN 90, on 17 April 2019 - 05:28 PM, said:

 

I would remove the spaced armour on the side then it's like the Panther M10, a bouncy front but weak sides and rear.

 

 

 

The day this happens GD will be brilliant.:popcorn:


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TocFanKe4 #17 Posted 17 April 2019 - 05:41 PM

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View PostJohn Arrowsmith, on 17 April 2019 - 12:31 PM, said

 

 

The day this happens GD will be brilliant.:popcorn:

 

It's why I'm glad they release things nerfed from PC.   They should have released Absolution with like a 25 kph top speed and then buffed it if it underperformed. The only problem is that they need to do balance changes more than once every 18 months to be a good strategy.


 

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swamp_fox_009 #18 Posted 17 April 2019 - 06:26 PM

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View PostRubbelito, on 17 April 2019 - 12:30 PM, said:

 

The 5/4 has extremely high battle weight which compensates its op'ness, as shown.

 

The Abso is clearly overperforming a bit. Not much to say about that. Nerf incoming.

 

The 131 on the other hand is a bit surprising (that the graph doesn't show higher wr), but on the other hand I'm not exactly sure how its battle weight is...?

 

 

The 5/4 is balanced by battle weight and it's barge like steering, the opposing team will get an additional heavy for each 5/4 on your team. 

 

The 131 I was surprised as well to see how players with low win rates are below average and unicoms are just at average.

 

Personally both of the above tanks I perform worse in when compared to my average win rate.

 

The Absolution is another story, lol. It clearly needs a nerf, and personally I perform will above my average win rate in it.

 

Thank you WG for posting the graphs!



IBROX 04 #19 Posted 17 April 2019 - 06:29 PM

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Can't find battle heros? Anyone got a link ? 

 

 

 

 


swamp_fox_009 #20 Posted 17 April 2019 - 06:30 PM

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View PostIBROX 04, on 17 April 2019 - 01:29 PM, said:

Can't find battle heros? Anyone got a link ? 

 

https://console.worldoftanks.com/en/news/battle-heroes-tier-x




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