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Battle Heroes Tank Balance

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Nuke2099 #61 Posted 18 April 2019 - 07:49 PM

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View PostRubbelito, on 18 April 2019 - 07:40 PM, said:

 

And by "player experience" you mean anecdotal evidence?

Like I said, whether it's good or not having strong tanks balanced by battle weight is certainly debatable, but most of the criticism are often founded in the argument that the data must be wrong, or they don't include this or that etc.

If you haven't seen it, I can recommend the video where they show how much and in detail they look when they do their balancing process.

Let me know if you want me to find the link.

 

They balance tanks purely around good players who inflate the stats most of the time. Their other balance changes aren't even done by their "data". They just take what PC did but screw it up. Example being the AMX 30 and 30B's nerfs were from PC except they decided not to give it the DPM buff...why? because good players were inflating the stats.

 

They nerfed the Italians for no reason claiming were a different game but yet they used PC data......


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Rubbelito #62 Posted 18 April 2019 - 07:56 PM

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View PostTocFanKe4, on 18 April 2019 - 09:47 PM, said:

 

That's basically how it's supposed to work. Someone posts data ,then the peer review process starts.  There are those that completely disregard data that doesn't agreed with them. But real data criticism comes from a place where everyone is looking for the truth.

 

I completely agree.

Problem is, 99.9% of those that wants to review it, doesn't have any statistical numbers of their own (not counting anecdotal as statistics).

If we had that, we could certainly find potential flaws in the data presented by WG, if there were any.

And then we have those that have no idea how WG do their tank reviews, but still have a lot of opinions.

 

But how do you dispute a WR for a tank? We don't have any complete sources to look at, only 3rd party sites that have gathered data from a collection of players.

.



Rubbelito #63 Posted 18 April 2019 - 07:58 PM

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View PostNuke2099, on 18 April 2019 - 09:49 PM, said:

 

They balance tanks purely around good players who inflate the stats most of the time.

 

Oh, is that so? Alright...

 

Block Quote

 Their other balance changes aren't even done by their "data". They just take what PC did but screw it up. Example being the AMX 30 and 30B's nerfs were from PC except they decided not to give it the DPM buff...why? because good players were inflating the stats.

 

Funny.

I just read earlier today that the AMX 30 was still doing better than most of its counterparts, even after the nerf.

 

 



TocFanKe4 #64 Posted 18 April 2019 - 08:13 PM

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View PostRubbelito, on 18 April 2019 - 02:56 PM, said:

 

I completely agree.

Problem is, 99.9% of those that wants to review it, doesn't have any statistical numbers of their own (not counting anecdotal as statistics).

If we had that, we could certainly find potential flaws in the data presented by WG, if there were any.

And then we have those that have no idea how WG do their tank reviews, but still have a lot of opinions.

 

But how do you dispute a WR for a tank? We don't have any complete sources to look at, only 3rd party sites that have gathered data from a collection of players.

.

 

You have to have in your mind the source of any data set and how it can be potentially skewed.  I'm fine with wotinfo's data.  It's skewed towards better players, but if you look at trends it seems to be fairly accurate compared to trends that WG has stated.  I don't agree with some of the stats WG uses for balance like damage per shot.  You can still have valid criticisms.  I just wiish we had access to all the data.   

 

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Rubbelito #65 Posted 18 April 2019 - 08:19 PM

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View PostTocFanKe4, on 18 April 2019 - 10:13 PM, said:

 

You have to have in your mind the source of any data set and how it can be potentially skewed.  I'm fine with wotinfo's data.  It's skewed towards better players, but if you look at trends it seems to be fairly accurate compared to trends that WG has stated.  I don't agree with some of the stats WG uses for balance like damage per shot.  You can still have valid criticisms.  I just wiish we had access to all the data.   

 

I agree that wotinfo can be used as indication or for trends etc., but it doesn't display, for example, how certain player levels perform in certain tanks. The wotinfo statistics are very "flat".

Gallant Prime #66 Posted 19 April 2019 - 01:28 AM

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View PostMASHMAN 90, on 18 April 2019 - 02:43 AM, said:

 

Why double the side plating? at one point i bounced 122 mm STG shell on the side of the Absolution because of that plate (I did autoaim though), To pen it as it is you need to aim for the tracks and not the Hull. That's what makes it more OP than the V/IV, the V/IV can be penned from the side.

 

Because other mercenaries tend to have added plate only on the sides.  Apparently, the mercenary crews don't trust each other (always trying to steal each other's payday) so they have to have extra side armor on their tanks and rarely add frontal armor it seems.  

 

I agree the Absolution is more OP, but that is because the Absolution has better mobility and gun.  You could strip the Absolution of its side armor and it would still be more OP, it just could not laugh maniacally while holding a corner against a superior force and melting them with its good pen, RoF and accuracy.    


 


Nuke2099 #67 Posted 19 April 2019 - 08:20 AM

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View PostRubbelito, on 18 April 2019 - 07:58 PM, said:

 

Oh, is that so? Alright...

 

 

Funny.

I just read earlier today that the AMX 30 was still doing better than most of its counterparts, even after the nerf.

 

 

 

Because only good players are playing it......Thanks for confirming what I just posted.

 

http://forum-console.worldoftanks.com/index.php?/topic/232174-amx-30b/page__st__20

 

http://forum-console.worldoftanks.com/index.php?/topic/219797-amx-30-completely-ruined1/page__st__20


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Rubbelito #68 Posted 19 April 2019 - 08:32 AM

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View PostNuke2099, on 19 April 2019 - 10:20 AM, said:

 

Because only good players are playing it......Thanks for confirming what I just posted.

 

http://forum-console.worldoftanks.com/index.php?/topic/232174-amx-30b/page__st__20

 

I haven't confirmed anything of what you claimed.

On the contrary, you said that WG only looks at good players, and that's wrong.

If only good players play a certain tank, that's something else.

 



Tempest fox3 #69 Posted 19 April 2019 - 08:37 AM

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View PostR35T NO MORE, on 18 April 2019 - 07:32 AM, said:

Looks at own 131 stats, 66% win rate, and I'm just a standard uni not a super.. Hmmm...

 

Any blue to super uni's here have a 131 with an average win rate? 

 

Just noticed I only have a 57% win rate in it. Compared to other tier 7 heavies with 60-70%


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Rubbelito #70 Posted 19 April 2019 - 08:42 AM

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View PostTempest fox3, on 19 April 2019 - 10:37 AM, said:

 

Just noticed I only have a 57% win rate in it. Compared to other tier 7 heavies with 60-70%

 

So do we have any idea why the 131 doesn't do better?

I mean, it really should, but can't find that post about mm weight atm.



Nuke2099 #71 Posted 19 April 2019 - 09:04 AM

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View PostRubbelito, on 19 April 2019 - 08:32 AM, said:

 

I haven't confirmed anything of what you claimed.

On the contrary, you said that WG only looks at good players, and that's wrong.

If only good players play a certain tank, that's something else.

 

 

Well only good players are inflating the stats in the AMX 30 and 30B so yes they are only basing it off good players. When they changed those tanks PAINGOD said they didn't know why they did it and they were going to look into it. After doing so they only reverted the accuracy and aim time changes. Now the tanks are played even less than they originally were and apparently they're still over performing? Because only good players are playing them. 

 

They nerfed the K-91...no they butchered it and it didn't need to happen. On PC they had to buff it so it could compete. How do you justify those nerfs? It was done because it's role is a high DPM stealthy mobile sniper with good pen which good players can use to their advantage. That's why it was really nerfed. 


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Warthog II #72 Posted 19 April 2019 - 09:25 AM

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View PostMaxChaos24, on 17 April 2019 - 05:15 PM, said:

 

It's all recent data, the last 3 months to be exact. 

 

Are the winrates in just the tier of those tanks included?

Are stock tanks included?

 

How much missing info is in the graph?


  

Some people claim Ensk should be tier restricted.   I don't believe their lies. 

Imagine if this forum had only players who actually win more than lose trying to tell others how to play. Would be the best forum ever. Instead, we have a bunch of bad advice from players who lose more often than not trying to tell their betters how to play their tanks.

 


Rubbelito #73 Posted 19 April 2019 - 09:27 AM

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View PostNuke2099, on 19 April 2019 - 11:04 AM, said:

 

Well only good players are inflating the stats in the AMX 30 and 30B so yes they are only basing it off good players. When they changed those tanks PAINGOD said they didn't know why they did it and they were going to look into it. After doing so they only reverted the accuracy and aim time changes. Now the tanks are played even less than they originally were and apparently they're still over performing? Because only good players are playing them. 

 

They nerfed the K-91...no they butchered it and it didn't need to happen. On PC they had to buff it so it could compete. How do you justify those nerfs? It was done because it's role is a high DPM stealthy mobile sniper with good pen which good players can use to their advantage. That's why it was really nerfed. 

 

If only good players are playing it, then only good players are the base for reviewing that tank.

First of all, it's sounds very much as a guess that only good players are playing it. WG could likely tell if that's correct, but I'm not sure how we can know for sure without seeing WG's numbers about it, and I don't think I've seen any yet.

Secondly, how do you balance a tank for [less than good] players if they don't play it? It sounds kind of difficult.

However, I agree that if that's the case, something is not right with it. Who knows, maybe this case actually is a balance screw up.

And thirdly, I'm not really justifying any nerfs (or buffs), I'm only going by the numbers and info I've been given.



Warthog II #74 Posted 19 April 2019 - 09:29 AM

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KilledByPing, on 18 April 2019 - 08:18 AM, said:

 

The only thing that make this tank good is the fact that Spaced armour placed exactly at the places beeing aimed by "Autoaim" function making this tank survive against not very skilled players.

 

 

 

 

 The hit box to pen on the side looks like it's on par with the ELC.  The spaced armor makes the hit box shrink.

 It also has a tier 7 gun and engine.   On a tier 6.

 

 

 

 


Edited by Warthog II, 19 April 2019 - 09:30 AM.

  

Some people claim Ensk should be tier restricted.   I don't believe their lies. 

Imagine if this forum had only players who actually win more than lose trying to tell others how to play. Would be the best forum ever. Instead, we have a bunch of bad advice from players who lose more often than not trying to tell their betters how to play their tanks.

 


AskingCupid78 #75 Posted 19 April 2019 - 10:54 AM

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Ok so i took a look at the abomination/abortion that sits unused in my garage.

It has a tier 7 hull with EXTRA armor- Panther

It has a tier 6 turret with EXTRA Armor--Porche typ 100

It has a tier 7 gun

It has a tier 7 engine

It has tier 7 tracks

It has a tier 9 radio

 

So this is a tier 6 Premium.

If someone dont understand that this is broken as all F...…….:facepalm:

I would reccomend that it gets bumped up to tier 7 at least.



RAD FROOD 25 #76 Posted 19 April 2019 - 10:58 AM

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View PostAskingCupid78, on 19 April 2019 - 10:54 AM, said:

Ok so i took a look at the abomination/abortion that sits unused in my garage.

It has a tier 7 hull with EXTRA armor- Panther

It has a tier 6 turret with EXTRA Armor--Porche typ 100

It has a tier 7 gun

It has a tier 7 engine

It has tier 7 tracks

It has a tier 9 radio

 

So this is a tier 6 Premium.

If someone dont understand that this is broken as all F...…….:facepalm:

I would reccomend that it gets bumped up to tier 7 at least.

 

i agree, however how are the Devs going to get people interested in the mercs if they can't give away an broken tank to all of them. 

CivilWarGoat #77 Posted 19 April 2019 - 11:24 AM

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View PostRubbelito, on 19 April 2019 - 08:42 AM, said:

 

So do we have any idea why the 131 doesn't do better?

 

Because it has trash for armour.



Rubbelito #78 Posted 19 April 2019 - 11:32 AM

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View PostCivilWarGoat, on 19 April 2019 - 01:24 PM, said:

Because it has trash for armour.

 

I agree that its armor isn't all that useful, but if that's the reason, the tank wouldn't be considered op.

I'm looking for a reason outside of the actual tank itself, like with the 5/4 that has extremely high battle weight, but I can't find anything that suggest the 131 has a different weight than your usual tier 7 heavy.

 



Nuke2099 #79 Posted 19 April 2019 - 11:32 AM

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View PostRAD FROOD 25, on 19 April 2019 - 10:58 AM, said:

 

i agree, however how are the Devs going to get people interested in the mercs if they can't give away an broken tank to all of them. 

 

By making the mercs based off nations tanks who can't fill up an actual tech tree. Which is actually what we asked for not what we got.
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AskingCupid78 #80 Posted 19 April 2019 - 12:40 PM

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View PostNuke2099, on 19 April 2019 - 11:32 AM, said:

 

By making the mercs based off nations tanks who can't fill up an actual tech tree. Which is actually what we asked for not what we got.

 

There are also some tanks that dont fit in to the Tech trees of som nations like Italian and Japanese Tds, these and some other tanks from small nations would be great. 

 A Finnish modification of a captured Soviet Bt tank

Bilderesultat for finnish tanks of ww2

Italian Semovente TD

Bilderesultat for semovente

 

 


Edited by AskingCupid78, 19 April 2019 - 12:48 PM.





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