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Proposal: Lower all German heavies by one tier

germany heavy tanks proposal rebalance fix

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MEGAblaster96 #1 Posted 18 April 2019 - 02:35 AM

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Playing through much of the German heavies, I've come to understand that they aren't bad tanks per say (mostly), but they are in the wrong tiers. And this is what contributes to their constant failures and bad winrates. Since they aren't getting buffed, this seems like a viable option.

 

  • The Maus is a prime example. It has the armor and gun of a tier 9. Yet is still worse in many ways. Conqueror, all t9 Soviet Heavies, M103, WZ-111, Type 4 Heavy, Emil II, 50TP, all of these tanks have better turret armor, and many have equivalent ufp armor. Most have better guns too.
  • The same goes for the E 100.
  • The Tiger I has already been released in premium versions twice (HT No. VI & Citadel) in tier VI, and it works fine there.
  • The Tiger II has already been released in premium in tier VII as the VK 45.03, and it works fine there. The 105mm gun was never put in the Tiger II IRL, and since that's the only reason it can barely pen some T10 tanks, it shouldn't be t8 to begin with.
  • The same goes for the VK 45.02 P A.
  • E 75 for all intents and purposes is hardly different from the IS-3 with it's 250mm turret armor and similar gun. Given the size, larger cupola, and glaring weakspots on the side of the turret, I'd honestly still rather be in my IS-3. So imo there's no reason it's not a tier 8.
  • The same goes for the VK 45.02 P B.
  • PZ VII Might actually get a single person to use it again if it was tier 9. As it stands it's probably the worst tier X in the game, and the least played.
  • Remove the Mauschen altogether. It's entirely pointless. I have never seen anyone do good in it. It's got virtually the same armor as the VK 100.01 P. Redundant tank.
  • The VK 100.01 P is the only heavy that actually fits the tier that it's in. Unsurprisingly is my favorite German tank.
  • To a lesser extent the Tiger P is alright as well due to it's heavier armor. It be completely fine if the machine gun port had the correct armor, and there weren't gigantic weakspots on it's shoulders.

 

So, overall pretty much all of the t7+ German heavies can be fixed this way. What are your thoughts? I see no reason as to why this isn't perfectly fine, and solves the years of complaints about German tanks being underpowered and being surpassed in every way by almost all tech trees.


Edited by MEGAblaster96, 18 April 2019 - 09:50 PM.


Sammael85 #2 Posted 18 April 2019 - 02:42 AM

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And having all the german heavy tech trees ending in Tier IX but being equally power crept? What a great idea! :great:

Some might say i'm not constructive enough... Too bad i'm actually a deconstructivist

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MEGAblaster96 #3 Posted 18 April 2019 - 02:48 AM

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View PostSammael85, on 17 April 2019 - 08:42 PM, said:

And having all the german heavy tech trees ending in Tier IX but being equally power crept? What a great idea! :great:

 

This is a suggestion of how to fix current tanks. Not what tanks to add. I'm sure WG can figure something out. Every other tree has a plethora of post-war heavies.

Try saying something constructive next time.

Sammael85 #4 Posted 18 April 2019 - 03:40 AM

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View PostMEGAblaster96, on 18 April 2019 - 03:48 AM, said:

 

This is a suggestion of how to fix current tanks. Not what tanks to add. I'm sure WG can figure something out. Every other tree has a plethora of post-war heavies.

Try saying something constructive next time.

 

Sorry, i was being as constructive as your post. :rolleyes:

Still anybody who actually knows about tanks, shall know that there's nothing as post-war heavy tanks as pretty much every country moved from 1945 to the fifties into MBT like the already added Leopard 1 and some prototypes like the RU 251, for mentioning those keeping on the german tech tree. Being the actual post-war heavy tanks derivations of existant MBT's like the M103 was for the M46, and the Caernarvon and Conqueror were for the Centurion (the Chieftain is just the replacement of the Centurion, being a better armored MBT just in case). Without mentioning the latest proper heavy tanks being the IS's from the IS-3 onwards. 

Ah, and being actually constructive and serious, maybe what you actually want is a re-balance in their stats and not a whole tier changing. That would actually mean something significative and even more easy to do. ;)

Some might say i'm not constructive enough... Too bad i'm actually a deconstructivist

Si eres español/hispano y te sientes aislado por WG, no estás solo: Hay un Batallón Exiliado dispuesto a ayudarte

Hear me ROAR!!!
 


MEGAblaster96 #5 Posted 18 April 2019 - 04:11 AM

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View PostSammael85, on 17 April 2019 - 09:40 PM, said:

 

Sorry, i was being as constructive as your post. :rolleyes:

Still anybody who actually knows about tanks, shall know that there's nothing as post-war heavy tanks as pretty much every country moved from 1945 to the fifties into MBT like the already added Leopard 1 and some prototypes like the RU 251, for mentioning those keeping on the german tech tree. Being the actual post-war heavy tanks derivations of existant MBT's like the M103 was for the M46, and the Caernarvon and Conqueror were for the Centurion (the Chieftain is just the replacement of the Centurion, being a better armored MBT just in case). Without mentioning the latest proper heavy tanks being the IS's from the IS-3 onwards. 

Ah, and being actually constructive and serious, maybe what you actually want is a re-balance in their stats and not a whole tier changing. That would actually mean something significative and even more easy to do. ;)

 

Wow. Please educate me more, o wise sage who knows about tanks. Me in my feeble, limited knowledge has never head of an MBT. I was most certainly not referring to the in-game category of tanks of which most in-game MBTs comprise.
:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: 

Edited by MEGAblaster96, 18 April 2019 - 04:12 AM.


Sammael85 #6 Posted 18 April 2019 - 05:23 AM

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I respond you seriously (with a bit of sarcasm) as you demanded and you react like that?

You shouldn't stay that late at the PC kiddo, or else your fathers didn't give you enough attention? :trollface:

Some might say i'm not constructive enough... Too bad i'm actually a deconstructivist

Si eres español/hispano y te sientes aislado por WG, no estás solo: Hay un Batallón Exiliado dispuesto a ayudarte

Hear me ROAR!!!
 


Haukkis #7 Posted 18 April 2019 - 06:57 AM

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View PostMEGAblaster96, on 18 April 2019 - 03:35 AM, said:

Playing through much of the German heavies, I've come to understand that they aren't bad tanks per say (mostly), but they are in the wrong tiers. And this is what contributes to their constant failures and bad winrates. Since they aren't getting buffed, this seems like a viable option.

 

  • The Maus is a prime example. It has the armor and gun of a tier 9. Yet is still worse in many ways. Conqueror, all t9 Soviet Heavies, M103, WZ-111, Type 4 Heavy, Emil II, 50TP, all of these tanks have better turret armor, and many have equivalent ufp armor. Most have better guns too.
  • The same goes for the E 100.
  • The Tiger I has already been released in premium versions twice (HT No. VI & Citadel) in tier VI, and it works fine there.
  • The Tiger II has already been released in premium in tier VII as the VK 45.03, and it works fine there. The 105mm gun was never put in the Tiger II IRL, and since that's the only reason it can barely pen some T10 tanks, it shouldn't be t8 to begin with.
  • The same goes for the VK 45.02 P A.
  • E 75 for all intents and purposes is hardly different from the IS-3 with it's 250mm turret armor and similar gun. Given the size, larger cupola, and glaring weakspots on the side of the turret, I'd honestly still rather be in my IS-3. So imo there's no reason it's not a tier 8.
  • The same goes for the VK 45.02 P B.
  • PZ VII Might actually get a single person to use it again if it was tier 9. As it stands it's probably the worst tier X in the game, and the least played.
  • Remove the Mauschen altogether. It's entirely pointless. I have never seen anyone do good in it. It's got virtually the same armor as the VK 100.01 P. Redundant tank.
  • The VK 100.01 P is the only heavy that actually fits the tier that it's in. Unsurprisingly is my favorite German tank.
  • To a lesser extent the Tiger P is alright as well due to it's heavier armor. It be completely fine if the gun mantlet had the correct armor, and there weren't gigantic weakspots on it's shoulders.

 

So, overall pretty much all of the t7+ German heavies can be fixed this way. What are your thoughts? I see no reason as to why this isn't perfectly fine, and solves the years of complaints about German tanks being underpowered and being surpassed in every way by almost all tech trees.

 

I couldn't disagree more. Panzer VII worst tier X?!? You feel that E-75 is no good at tier 9? Dude, E-75 is overpowered, it's better than some tier X heavies! What have you've been smoking? Poor suggestions overall.

Edited by Haukkis, 18 April 2019 - 06:58 AM.


PANDoGGA #8 Posted 18 April 2019 - 07:16 AM

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E 75 Tier VIII hell yeah. Butt first another buff please:trollface:


 

 

 

 

 


matematicalone #9 Posted 18 April 2019 - 08:38 AM

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Putting E75 to tier 8 would ruin that tier (not that it's not ruined atm but still).

I would add TD's to your suggestion, poor Waffle has no bussines at tier 10 so tier 9 looks like much better home for that poor thing. If it can't clip out at least 3 tier VII full health tanks it's not balanced.



 


matematicalone #10 Posted 18 April 2019 - 08:44 AM

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View PostPANDoGGA, on 18 April 2019 - 08:16 AM, said:

E 75 Tier VIII hell yeah. Butt first another buff please:trollface:

 

Imagine top tier match in E75 against tier VI. Absolutions, Citadels, T-34-85's  and whole list of ''OP'' tier VI tanks against poor E75. :teethhappy:


 


matematicalone #11 Posted 18 April 2019 - 08:52 AM

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Op, funny your favorite tank (as you say) is VK 100.01.P. That tank introduced at tier VIII created so many salty threads back at the time, that arty threads were made redundant for months. Tank was so OP and still is, only difference now is people learned how to deal with it over time (plus it was slightly nerfed I believe).



 


LIT SKULL987 #12 Posted 18 April 2019 - 08:56 AM

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View Postmatematicalone, on 18 April 2019 - 08:44 AM, said:

 

Imagine top tier match in E75 against tier VI. Absolutions, Citadels, T-34-85's  and whole list of ''OP'' tier VI tanks against poor E75. :teethhappy:

 

can you imagine all those tier 6 rounds bouncing off the armour , it would be like a hail storm

choppermeir #13 Posted 18 April 2019 - 12:20 PM

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This isn't serious surely 
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Sammael85 #14 Posted 18 April 2019 - 05:56 PM

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View Postchoppermeir, on 18 April 2019 - 01:20 PM, said:

This isn't serious surely 

 

I trully wish it wasn't. 

Some might say i'm not constructive enough... Too bad i'm actually a deconstructivist

Si eres español/hispano y te sientes aislado por WG, no estás solo: Hay un Batallón Exiliado dispuesto a ayudarte

Hear me ROAR!!!
 


donny007-THX #15 Posted 18 April 2019 - 06:20 PM

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View PostHaukkis, on 17 April 2019 - 10:57 PM, said:

 

I couldn't disagree more. Panzer VII worst tier X?!? You feel that E-75 is no good at tier 9? Dude, E-75 is overpowered, it's better than some tier X heavies! What have you've been smoking? Poor suggestions overall.

I was under the strong impression that Clown Shoe was regarded as a rather poor tank at tier and type......Not that it is the worst, just bottom half for sure.


When a man with a .45 meets a man with a rifle, you said, the man with a pistol's a dead man. Let's see if that's true. Go ahead, load up and shoot.

Sammael85 #16 Posted 18 April 2019 - 08:15 PM

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I can agree that actually all the Tier X German Heavies are from a bit to actually really power crept (just like anything that isn't a medium or a light from the popular tech trees). But seriously? Dropping the E100 at Tier IX, blasting 750 damage per shot while being totally undestructible? Now THAT'S balance! :trollface:

 

How about having the Waffentrager E100 on Tier IX as well? It's enraging i can't wipe down entire platoons with a single clip! :D


Some might say i'm not constructive enough... Too bad i'm actually a deconstructivist

Si eres español/hispano y te sientes aislado por WG, no estás solo: Hay un Batallón Exiliado dispuesto a ayudarte

Hear me ROAR!!!
 


MEGAblaster96 #17 Posted 18 April 2019 - 09:46 PM

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View PostSammael85, on 18 April 2019 - 02:15 PM, said:

I can agree that actually all the Tier X German Heavies are from a bit to actually really power crept (just like anything that isn't a medium or a light from the popular tech trees). But seriously? Dropping the E100 at Tier IX, blasting 750 damage per shot while being totally undestructible? Now THAT'S balance! :trollface:

 

How about having the Waffentrager E100 on Tier IX as well? It's enraging i can't wipe down entire platoons with a single clip! :D

 

Ah yes, Type 4 Heavy isn't real. Nor is the Object 704. :P

 

View PostHaukkis, on 18 April 2019 - 12:57 AM, said:

 

I couldn't disagree more. Panzer VII worst tier X?!? You feel that E-75 is no good at tier 9? Dude, E-75 is overpowered, it's better than some tier X heavies! What have you've been smoking? Poor suggestions overall.

 

Yes, Panzer VII is the worst tier X heavy. This is pretty evident. Maybe IS-4 is worse? And how is the E-75 overpowered? The turret is completely flat and it has a massive lower glacis. I've never had trouble killing them even at tier 8. T-10/Object 257/Conqueror stomps them in every way.
 

View Postmatematicalone, on 18 April 2019 - 02:38 AM, said:

Putting E75 to tier 8 would ruin that tier (not that it's not ruined atm but still).

I would add TD's to your suggestion, poor Waffle has no bussines at tier 10 so tier 9 looks like much better home for that poor thing. If it can't clip out at least 3 tier VII full health tanks it's not balanced.

 

Explain how. The way I see it, the E75 is on the same level as the IS3.

 

View PostLIT SKULL987, on 18 April 2019 - 02:56 AM, said:

 

can you imagine all those tier 6 rounds bouncing off the armour , it would be like a hail storm

 

Just like a top tier heavy tank should be!

 

View Postmatematicalone, on 18 April 2019 - 02:52 AM, said:

Op, funny your favorite tank (as you say) is VK 100.01.P. That tank introduced at tier VIII created so many salty threads back at the time, that arty threads were made redundant for months. Tank was so OP and still is, only difference now is people learned how to deal with it over time (plus it was slightly nerfed I believe).

 

Exactly why I love it. It feels like how the Maus should feel. It's a goddamn battleship with a ton of armor and a huge gun. Penning it frontally is hard even for those of the same tier. But of course it's incredibly slow and hard to maneuver. Thus it can be flanked very easily. IMO WG did a great job with it. Fun to play and perfectly balanced.



BrendenF-99 #18 Posted 19 April 2019 - 11:46 AM

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No wonder why WG seems to ignore the Forums, it seems to be where all the Stupid posts seems to be found.

your trying to say that the E 75 is on the same level as the IS-3, funny that how an E 75 in the hands of a good player can defeat a good number of tier 10 heavies in a 1 v 1 situation, not too sure an IS-3 can do that.

And the Maus having less armor and a worse turret than most tier 9's, so is that why somebody that knows nothing about angling armor can block 5K plus damage in that thing ?!?!?!?!



WidowMaker1711 #19 Posted 19 April 2019 - 11:57 AM

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View PostPANDoGGA, on 18 April 2019 - 07:16 AM, said:

E 75 Tier VIII hell yeah. Butt first another buff please:trollface:

 

Only if the Tiger I gets a RoF and Alpha buff on the top package


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Haukkis #20 Posted 19 April 2019 - 12:18 PM

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View PostMEGAblaster96, on 18 April 2019 - 10:46 PM, said:

 

Ah yes, Type 4 Heavy isn't real. Nor is the Object 704. :P

 

 

Yes, Panzer VII is the worst tier X heavy. This is pretty evident. Maybe IS-4 is worse? And how is the E-75 overpowered? The turret is completely flat and it has a massive lower glacis. I've never had trouble killing them even at tier 8. T-10/Object 257/Conqueror stomps them in every way.
 

 

Explain how. The way I see it, the E75 is on the same level as the IS3.

 

 

Just like a top tier heavy tank should be!

 

 

Exactly why I love it. It feels like how the Maus should feel. It's a goddamn battleship with a ton of armor and a huge gun. Penning it frontally is hard even for those of the same tier. But of course it's incredibly slow and hard to maneuver. Thus it can be flanked very easily. IMO WG did a great job with it. Fun to play and perfectly balanced.

 

E-75 is bit overpowered, that top speed increase made it op. Armor is amazing and gun is very good for it's tier and it has ton of hitpoints and decent mobility. Overall it's bit overpowered and best tier 9 heavy. You could also argue it's better than some tier X heavies like Maus. Another topic: Panzer VII. Why u feel it's worst tier X heavy? It's not, it's a great tank with awesome armor and pretty good gun with nice alpha. Much better vehicle than Maus or Type 5 Heavy in most situations imo. I'm not saying it's one of the best, no, but definitely not among the worst. Maeby it just doesn't suit your playstyle or your just having bad luck with it?





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