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Is Seal Clubbing really wrong?


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DAD Commander72 #41 Posted 25 June 2019 - 01:45 PM

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Here is why Seal Clubbing (experienced players playing at lower tiers) is not wrong or bad.

 

1) Because making the game a good experience for new players is not your job. It is WoT's job. Bad sportsmanship is one thing and uncool, Seal Clubbing is not bad sportsmanship.

 

2) WoT encourages experienced players to play at lower tiers. Evidence of this is Premium Tank giveaways to veteran players, like the Blitzen, etc., and also Mercenary contracts for lower tier tanks, these are cool lower tier tanks. They obviously want experienced players to play these tanks. Duh.

 

3) If experienced players play at lower tiers, that helps get enough players to play. There are often long waits for games at lower tiers and I think WoT is encouraging people to play at these tiers for this reason.

 

4) No reason to think if you are a new player there are not experienced players in the game. It would be that way in a real battle.

 

Conclusion: seal clubbing is not wrong.



Comengetyurlove #42 Posted 26 June 2019 - 12:24 AM

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View PostDAD Commander72, on 25 June 2019 - 01:45 PM, said:

Here is why Seal Clubbing (experienced players playing at lower tiers) is not wrong or bad.

 

1) Because making the game a good experience for new players is not your job. It is WoT's job. Bad sportsmanship is one thing and uncool, Seal Clubbing is not bad sportsmanship.

 

2) WoT encourages experienced players to play at lower tiers. Evidence of this is Premium Tank giveaways to veteran players, like the Blitzen, etc., and also Mercenary contracts for lower tier tanks, these are cool lower tier tanks. They obviously want experienced players to play these tanks. Duh.

 

3) If experienced players play at lower tiers, that helps get enough players to play. There are often long waits for games at lower tiers and I think WoT is encouraging people to play at these tiers for this reason.

 

4) No reason to think if you are a new player there are not experienced players in the game. It would be that way in a real battle.

 

Conclusion: seal clubbing is not wrong.

 

I disagree with everything you have said in this thread.    

While people are free to play whatever tanks they want, I don't enjoy as a new player platoons of Churchill IIIs, Sexton artillery's and those ridiculous V/IV tanks crushing everyone.  Many had camo and I am guessing equipment and souped up crews.  My little tier four with just camo on it and a crew that had backwards 20% experience when I put him in the tank is no match for you.  It is what it is, but you asked if people thought it was wrong, so there you go.  It's like going back to the 4th grade playground, dunking on the 8 foot rim over the little tykes, keeping stats on your points and rebounds, and bragging about it.


Edited by Comengetyurlove, 26 June 2019 - 12:36 AM.


DAD Commander72 #43 Posted 26 June 2019 - 01:06 PM

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View PostComengetyurlove, on 26 June 2019 - 12:24 AM, said:

 

I disagree with everything you have said in this thread.    

While people are free to play whatever tanks they want, I don't enjoy as a new player platoons of Churchill IIIs, Sexton artillery's and those ridiculous V/IV tanks crushing everyone.  Many had camo and I am guessing equipment and souped up crews.  My little tier four with just camo on it and a crew that had backwards 20% experience when I put him in the tank is no match for you.  It is what it is, but you asked if people thought it was wrong, so there you go.  It's like going back to the 4th grade playground, dunking on the 8 foot rim over the little tykes, keeping stats on your points and rebounds, and bragging about it.

 

My thought would be for you to learn and improve, get better tanks, get equipment, whatever, rather than being unhappy about the competition. That is how life works to in the real world.

Huncho_Mystic #44 Posted 26 June 2019 - 09:45 PM

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g

Edited by hmsmystic, 26 June 2019 - 09:45 PM.


Very Classy #45 Posted 26 June 2019 - 11:37 PM

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View PostDAD Commander72, on 26 June 2019 - 08:06 AM, said:

 

My thought would be for you to learn and improve, get better tanks, get equipment, whatever, rather than being unhappy about the competition. That is how life works to in the real world.

 

This is your response to someone with 200 battles. This is what you do not understand. If the 1st 200 battles are trash and not fun, what possible impetus would a player have to continue forward? They would probably just play a different game.

 

Luckily I entered this game when most folks were bad and trying to learn it. Now, new players are at a distinct disadvantage. Never would I recommend this game to someone new... Unfortunately, this game, like all games, needs a constant influx of new players. 

 

I would suggest you try to elevate your game by playing against better, more experienced players. The key to improvement is challenging oneself.



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DAD Commander72 #46 Posted 27 June 2019 - 02:13 PM

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View PostVery Classy, on 26 June 2019 - 11:37 PM, said:

 

This is your response to someone with 200 battles. This is what you do not understand. If the 1st 200 battles are trash and not fun, what possible impetus would a player have to continue forward? They would probably just play a different game.

 

Luckily I entered this game when most folks were bad and trying to learn it. Now, new players are at a distinct disadvantage. Never would I recommend this game to someone new... Unfortunately, this game, like all games, needs a constant influx of new players. 

 

I would suggest you try to elevate your game by playing against better, more experienced players. The key to improvement is challenging oneself.

 

Tell it to WoT. They are obviously not concerned as I have said, they promote playing at lower tiers through lower tier premium tank giveaways and mercenary contracts. War is no easy or fair.

CleverJoey1844 #47 Posted 29 June 2019 - 06:57 AM

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Hummmm very interesting subject here. If your comfortable in lower tiers by all means- Enjoy. Truly it's personal opinion. I myself mostly agree with Very Classy. New players become frustrated and rage quit because they can't get enough XP per game to advance to better tanks. WG should limit # of games played in low tier tanks after a certian amount of battle totals

Koncorde #48 Posted 29 June 2019 - 02:15 PM

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View PostComengetyurlove, on 26 June 2019 - 12:24 AM, said:

 

I disagree with everything you have said in this thread.    

While people are free to play whatever tanks they want, I don't enjoy as a new player platoons of Churchill IIIs, Sexton artillery's and those ridiculous V/IV tanks crushing everyone.  Many had camo and I am guessing equipment and souped up crews.  My little tier four with just camo on it and a crew that had backwards 20% experience when I put him in the tank is no match for you.  It is what it is, but you asked if people thought it was wrong, so there you go.  It's like going back to the 4th grade playground, dunking on the 8 foot rim over the little tykes, keeping stats on your points and rebounds, and bragging about it.

 

Pretty much all modern grindy shooters have this going on though?

 

There are also plenty of bad players in V/IV's running around like headless chickens as hitpoint pinatas (the significant majority of experienced players are sub 50% players), and even to someone who has played 24,000 battles - if I was a tier IV I know a tier V is going to hump me to the ends of the earth. The end goal is to simply get better, make an impact where you can, and gain XP.



kill2chilll #49 Posted 12 July 2019 - 03:08 PM

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View PostDAD Commander72, on 25 June 2019 - 01:45 PM, said:

Here is why Seal Clubbing (experienced players playing at lower tiers) is not wrong or bad.

 

1) Because making the game a good experience for new players is not your job. It is WoT's job. Bad sportsmanship is one thing and uncool, Seal Clubbing is not bad sportsmanship.

 

2) WoT encourages experienced players to play at lower tiers. Evidence of this is Premium Tank giveaways to veteran players, like the Blitzen, etc., and also Mercenary contracts for lower tier tanks, these are cool lower tier tanks. They obviously want experienced players to play these tanks. Duh.

 

3) If experienced players play at lower tiers, that helps get enough players to play. There are often long waits for games at lower tiers and I think WoT is encouraging people to play at these tiers for this reason.

 

4) No reason to think if you are a new player there are not experienced players in the game. It would be that way in a real battle.

 

Conclusion: seal clubbing is not wrong.

Your correct in saying that its wargamings responsability to make the gaming experience fun for new players. You have no moral responsability to do this but its short sighted to think there are no consequences to this attitude.

View PostMilitaryGoose05, on 11 June 2019 - 11:35 AM, said:

Online games depend on recruiting a constant stream of new players.

 

WG have allowed seal clubbing to proliferate to such an extent that the new player experience in this game is just terrible.

 

As a result new player retention is appalling. As evidenced by the very low numbers of players on tiers I-IV.

 

This has lead to low player numbers across the game, resulting in all the woes we see with the MM and unfair teams and one sided battles.

 

 

Seal clubbing has basically killed this game. All that's left for WG is milking the whales of the dwindling playerbase until it dies out.

 

 

So is it bad? Yeah, probably. I love this game and I think it's sad if it dies out. I think WG should remove or heavily nerf all the seal clubbing tanks immediately. And populate lower tiers with bots. And do campaigns to bring in new players.

 

A mature and accurate analysis of the dangers of excessive seal clubbing, i rarely drop below t5 now to allow new players to develop the skill set and love of this game , constantly getting battered by experienced players in op tanks will hurt player retention. Without a constant influx of new players this game is doomed.

DAD Commander72 #50 Posted 15 July 2019 - 01:06 PM

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View Postkill2chilll, on 12 July 2019 - 03:08 PM, said:

Your correct in saying that its wargamings responsability to make the gaming experience fun for new players. You have no moral responsability to do this but its short sighted to think there are no consequences to this attitude.

 

A mature and accurate analysis of the dangers of excessive seal clubbing, i rarely drop below t5 now to allow new players to develop the skill set and love of this game , constantly getting battered by experienced players in op tanks will hurt player retention. Without a constant influx of new players this game is doomed.

 

How do you know this is correct? This is just an opinion unless it is from WoT. I would think WoT has the real skin in the game and if seal clubbing were really hurting the successful recruitment of new players and their game they would not so obviously encourage it by giving experienced players free premium lower tier tanks as special giveaways.

DAD Commander72 #51 Posted 15 July 2019 - 01:07 PM

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A little knowledge is a dangerous thing. Kind of like these guys on the mic telling everyone what to do when they themselves don't have a clue.

John-berg1995 #52 Posted 01 September 2019 - 12:30 PM

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Its effects can be overwhelming.
I took my friend who's brand new to the game into battle we started at tier 1 by the time got to tier 2 we ran into our first 5 man T Rex platoon and I had to explain to him how ***** we are. he didn't understand until 5 of them blitzed around the corner and killed both of us in the span of 0.3 seconds

Then when we got to tier 4 I had to explain to him how screwed we where when encountering the 5 man pz V/IV platoon and how this tier V "medium" has more health than most tier VI heavy tanks. And we where obviously destroyed...what's an m3lee and an A32 going to do to a V/IV absolutely nothing. he was so shaken that he pretty much quit playing. He had so much interest in the game then after constantly running into V/IVs , su76I, B2 platoons he just couldn't do it anymore.

Back when I went through the tiers the game was in beta. So everyone was new. And everyone was at the same tier. Infact. I was one of the first people on NA to get to tier V so I just stayed ahead of everyone so I didn't really suffer from being bottom tier at all when going through the tanks

(Oh except for when I decided to pause my is-7 grind and unlocked the luchs...and it put me in a 1 v 1 battle against a fully upgraded T29 on himelsdorf....so that was fun being one shotted)

Tricky Rik 36 #53 Posted 02 September 2019 - 08:47 AM

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Low tier premium are my go-to tanks for virgin crews.  Once my crews get Sixth Sense I use mid-tier premiums more.  There are a couple of low tier tanks I need to kill so will occasionally drop down and have a look for them.  I don't consider that seal clubbing or at least, I don't feel any guilt about it.  I'm not doing it to boost my stats and I enjoy the occasions when I can mess up a clan platooned at low tiers.  Now that WG have made tier V the minimum tier for several Ops, there's no reason to play low tiers very often.  

Tricky Rik 36 #54 Posted 02 September 2019 - 08:49 AM

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View PostDAD Commander72, on 20 May 2019 - 02:12 PM, said:

I got accused of seal clubbing yesterday by someone I shot up. He was higher tier too, so wasn't he seal clubbing as well? I love my Chinese Stuart, hate to give it up.

 

I know this is a frequent topic but here is my take. Life is not fair. And new people are going to have to learn to play this game in the real world. But I am open to ideas.

 

That's my starting Chinese crew trainer (although I also use the IS-2) and a fun tank, I wouldn't give it up.

DAD Commander72 #55 Posted 02 September 2019 - 07:59 PM

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View PostVery Classy, on 26 June 2019 - 11:37 PM, said:

 

This is your response to someone with 200 battles. This is what you do not understand. If the 1st 200 battles are trash and not fun, what possible impetus would a player have to continue forward? They would probably just play a different game.

 

Luckily I entered this game when most folks were bad and trying to learn it. Now, new players are at a distinct disadvantage. Never would I recommend this game to someone new... Unfortunately, this game, like all games, needs a constant influx of new players. 

 

I would suggest you try to elevate your game by playing against better, more experienced players. The key to improvement is challenging oneself.

 

LOL -  200 battles? I'm a slow learner but I had no clue at 5000. I think I started understanding the game a little at about 10000+.

Highlordwurm #56 Posted 24 October 2019 - 04:15 PM

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View PostJohn-berg1995, on 01 September 2019 - 12:30 PM, said:

Its effects can be overwhelming.
I took my friend who's brand new to the game into battle we started at tier 1 by the time got to tier 2 we ran into our first 5 man T Rex platoon and I had to explain to him how ***** we are. he didn't understand until 5 of them blitzed around the corner and killed both of us in the span of 0.3 seconds

Then when we got to tier 4 I had to explain to him how screwed we where when encountering the 5 man pz V/IV platoon and how this tier V "medium" has more health than most tier VI heavy tanks. And we where obviously destroyed...what's an m3lee and an A32 going to do to a V/IV absolutely nothing. he was so shaken that he pretty much quit playing. He had so much interest in the game then after constantly running into V/IVs , su76I, B2 platoons he just couldn't do it anymore.

Back when I went through the tiers the game was in beta. So everyone was new. And everyone was at the same tier. Infact. I was one of the first people on NA to get to tier V so I just stayed ahead of everyone so I didn't really suffer from being bottom tier at all when going through the tanks

(Oh except for when I decided to pause my is-7 grind and unlocked the luchs...and it put me in a 1 v 1 battle against a fully upgraded T29 on himelsdorf....so that was fun being one shotted)

 

I think a lot of us in the forums are SOOO far away from being a newb we forget.  I got a terrible memory, too, but I remember some.  The first two years I played this game I got walked all over, not just walked all over, my first actual goal was 'survive 3 minutes.'  …took me awhile to achieve...And I remember the dawning of knowledge, when I recognized my first tank: the Hellcat.  It took me SO long to even identify specific tanks (the ones with names were, obviously easiest), never mind recognizing clubbers.  I propose that seal clubbing became a problem the day the phrase was coined.  Up until then, low tiers were just tough, like the Gazelles crossing the crocodile infested rivers, and when you finally got your first tier 6 you EARNED that.  Now, there is a reason, its someone's fault.  THAT is what discourages others from playing:  old salty veterans telling the newbs they are screwed and just don't know it yet.  This game was HARD to learn, that's why we love it, talk of seal clubbers discourages people-you are setting them up to be resentful.  I remember, also, discovering the V/IV and because no salty veteran told me that tank was the cause of all my trouble all I thought was 'One day, you will be mine.'

John-Berg, respect, I just quoted you as an example and I sure didn't mean to criticize you, I act the exact same way and I was reflecting on my own behaviour, too.  Just chewing on an idea....

It reminds me about that 60 minutes interview with Morgan Freeman, he was asked 'how should we combat racism in America?' (I paraphrase) his response?  "Stop talking about it."  One of those simple, profound, slow burn thoughts....


Edited by Highlordwurm, 24 October 2019 - 04:24 PM.

 


steelheadclan #57 Posted 27 October 2019 - 04:54 PM

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View PostHighlordwurm, on 24 October 2019 - 08:15 AM, said:

 

I think a lot of us in the forums are SOOO far away from being a newb we forget.  I got a terrible memory, too, but I remember some.  The first two years I played this game I got walked all over, not just walked all over, my first actual goal was 'survive 3 minutes.'  …took me awhile to achieve...And I remember the dawning of knowledge, when I recognized my first tank: the Hellcat.  It took me SO long to even identify specific tanks (the ones with names were, obviously easiest), never mind recognizing clubbers.  I propose that seal clubbing became a problem the day the phrase was coined.  Up until then, low tiers were just tough, like the Gazelles crossing the crocodile infested rivers, and when you finally got your first tier 6 you EARNED that.  Now, there is a reason, its someone's fault.  THAT is what discourages others from playing:  old salty veterans telling the newbs they are screwed and just don't know it yet.  This game was HARD to learn, that's why we love it, talk of seal clubbers discourages people-you are setting them up to be resentful.  I remember, also, discovering the V/IV and because no salty veteran told me that tank was the cause of all my trouble all I thought was 'One day, you will be mine.'

John-Berg, respect, I just quoted you as an example and I sure didn't mean to criticize you, I act the exact same way and I was reflecting on my own behaviour, too.  Just chewing on an idea....

It reminds me about that 60 minutes interview with Morgan Freeman, he was asked 'how should we combat racism in America?' (I paraphrase) his response?  "Stop talking about it."  One of those simple, profound, slow burn thoughts....

I haven’t forgotten how tough it was when I first started playing. 
it was painful at times. 
I 100% think wargaming wants new players like I was to feel you’ll be more dominant with higher tier tanks do you’ll gold up or buy premiums. 

News flash- you’ll suck eggs in higher tiers as well. 
 

Personally I don’t enjoy playing tiers 1-4 anymore except the occasional Sexton game and I try to keep those at a minimum now. 
I feel as a player with a bit of hard earned knowledge and a smidge of skill now I really shouldn’t be playing 1-4 now and I don’t even play tier 5 much anymore(I even sold my beloved Chaffee). 
 

I do play a lot of tier 6 lights and honestly often kinda feel guilty when top tier. 
I often don’t play well when top tier because I don’t take it seriously. 


 


R35T NO MORE #58 Posted 30 October 2019 - 06:04 PM

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Seal clubbing is bad and those who do it alot (I'm talking thousands of battles in tier 3s etc) likely only do so because they are too bad at the game to play against experienced players so just hope to fight new players. This in turn no doubt just puts those new players off. 

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Huncho_Mystic #59 Posted 31 October 2019 - 12:56 AM

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View PostR35T NO MORE, on 30 October 2019 - 10:04 AM, said:

Seal clubbing is bad and those who do it alot (I'm talking thousands of battles in tier 3s etc) likely only do so because they are too bad at the game to play against experienced players so just hope to fight new players. This in turn no doubt just puts those new players off. 

 

This... if you have to ask this question, then you already know the answer

dzhey43 #60 Posted 31 October 2019 - 07:25 AM

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Sometimes it is a duty to go low tier and beat all the [edited]out of all seal clubbers living there.:trollface:
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