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Just when you thought you knew everything.. A new PC game-mechanics video pops up

tanks mechanics concealment gameplay video

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JAG THE GEMINI #1 Posted 25 May 2019 - 01:22 PM

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Does anyone know if ALL of these mechanics do apply to the WoTConsole version as well?

I guess not


 

 

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Pontiac Pat #2 Posted 25 May 2019 - 02:46 PM

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Very good video.  AFAIK, these mechanical details and formula are all the same for us.  The only exception being that we don't have the directives.  Also, let me stress that to get the bonus for a bush it must cover ALL of your vision check points.  If the enemy has direct LOS to even one of them you lose the bonus.

Edited by Pontiac Pat, 25 May 2019 - 02:47 PM.

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Tempest fox3 #3 Posted 25 May 2019 - 02:56 PM

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View PostPontiac Pat, on 25 May 2019 - 02:46 PM, said:

Very good video.  AFAIK, these mechanical details and formula are all the same for us.  The only exception being that we don't have the directives.  Also, let me stress that to get the bonus for a bush it must cover ALL of your vision check points.  If the enemy has direct LOS to even one of them you lose the bonus.

 

Did they ever add the vision check point to the gun barrel? I know it was planned at one point not sure if they ever followed through. 


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Saerbhreathach #4 Posted 25 May 2019 - 03:04 PM

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It all works the same way for us. :)

 

One thing I didn't notice mentioned in the video is how bush/tree canopy density as well effects concealment, the fuller the bush/tree canopy the better it conceals you. Take the bare trees for example, they provide less camo than trees with full canopies. 

 

I'll see if I can find the chart that lists all of the camo values for all of the foliage in game and post it here. Unless Max or Rai or someone else beats me to it that is...lol. 



JAG THE GEMINI #5 Posted 25 May 2019 - 04:14 PM

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View PostPontiac Pat, on 25 May 2019 - 03:46 PM, said:

Very good video.  AFAIK, these mechanical details and formula are all the same for us.  The only exception being that we don't have the directives.  Also, let me stress that to get the bonus for a bush it must cover ALL of your vision check points.  If the enemy has direct LOS to even one of them you lose the bonus.

 

Ok good to know, thanks

View PostSaerbhreathach, on 25 May 2019 - 04:04 PM, said:

It all works the same way for us. :)

 

One thing I didn't notice mentioned in the video is how bush/tree canopy density as well effects concealment, the fuller the bush/tree canopy the better it conceals you. Take the bare trees for example, they provide less camo than trees with full canopies. 

 

I'll see if I can find the chart that lists all of the camo values for all of the foliage in game and post it here. Unless Max or Rai or someone else beats me to it that is...lol. 

 

Such a chart list would be really interesting imo!

 

 

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Saerbhreathach #6 Posted 25 May 2019 - 04:26 PM

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View PostJAG THE GEMINI, on 25 May 2019 - 12:44 PM, said:

 

Ok good to know, thanks

 

Such a chart list would be really interesting imo!

 

 

Sorry had to take the dog for a walk...lol. Here's a link to the chart but there's no pictures unfortunately. So unless you personally can match the name to the tree you're not really going to be able to tell AND there's some with like 3 different types. Example... Birch tree 1, Birch tree 2, Birch tree 3. I honestly don't know what the difference is between the trees in my example...

 

I just use me eyes, look at the trees canopy see how full it is. If there's lots of leaves I'll use it, if it's bare I'll leave it be is my general rule of thumb. :)

 

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matematicalone #7 Posted 25 May 2019 - 05:58 PM

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Great video, you have to love those PC guides. I would love to see same video for console, but I'm afraid that wooden furnace would be invented sooner than such video.


 


Pontiac Pat #8 Posted 26 May 2019 - 02:22 AM

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View PostSaerbhreathach, on 25 May 2019 - 08:26 AM, said:

Remember that our versions of the maps have a lot less vegetation, so who knows how many of those listed actually apply to our versions of the maps.


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FusionStar287 #9 Posted 26 May 2019 - 02:36 AM

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View PostTempest fox3, on 25 May 2019 - 09:56 AM, said:

 

Did they ever add the vision check point to the gun barrel? I know it was planned at one point not sure if they ever followed through. 

I don't know for sure about PC, but on Console your gun barrel doesn't contain any vision check points, so sticking your gun around a corner won't cause you to be detected.


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FusionStar287 #10 Posted 26 May 2019 - 02:40 AM

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View PostSaerbhreathach, on 25 May 2019 - 10:04 AM, said:

It all works the same way for us. :)

 

One thing I didn't notice mentioned in the video is how bush/tree canopy density as well effects concealment, the fuller the bush/tree canopy the better it conceals you. Take the bare trees for example, they provide less camo than trees with full canopies. 

 

I'll see if I can find the chart that lists all of the camo values for all of the foliage in game and post it here. Unless Max or Rai or someone else beats me to it that is...lol. 

By the way, one thing I've noticed is that Bamboo (namely on Pearl River) gives far better concealment than you would expect (either it's counted as heavy foliage or there's so much of it that it adds up). Also, it seems like knocked over trees almost always provide less concealment than the majority of bushes.


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animatethant #11 Posted 26 May 2019 - 06:43 AM

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So, does any of this partially explain why historically people have complained about "fake" bushes?

 

That maybe some bushes either actually don't register as camo producing or people mistakenly think they have covered all their vision ports but haven't?

 

Not sure how PC players have done any testing, if any, in any detail.



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View Postanimatethant, on 26 May 2019 - 04:43 PM, said:

So, does any of this partially explain why historically people have complained about "fake" bushes?

 

 

Extra Bushes on xbox1 that aren't there on 360.  

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SPUK4U #13 Posted 26 May 2019 - 09:19 AM

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This is a good video, I saw it back then when I was still learning mechanism of the game and I have applied it to game ever sins.  

 

To get best out of these mechanism one really needs to use minimap and not radar.  Radar shows only what is inside your detection ring and it does not show distance to the targets outside of ring.  Minimap shows the white  detection ring that grows when tanks moves or fires shrinks in when the camo goes back on.  I usually test how far the detection ring goes by making a test fire and I know that targets inside the ring will detect me.  Minimap also shows the green area that is tank's vision range and it's usually good to have it larger than white detection ring as you want to be the one that sees the enemy first. 

 

 

 


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Koncorde #14 Posted 26 May 2019 - 11:56 AM

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View PostSPUK4U, on 26 May 2019 - 09:19 AM, said:

This is a good video, I saw it back then when I was still learning mechanism of the game and I have applied it to game ever sins.  

 

To get best out of these mechanism one really needs to use minimap and not radar.  Radar shows only what is inside your detection ring and it does not show distance to the targets outside of ring.  Minimap shows the white  detection ring that grows when tanks moves or fires shrinks in when the camo goes back on.  I usually test how far the detection ring goes by making a test fire and I know that targets inside the ring will detect me.  Minimap also shows the green area that is tank's vision range and it's usually good to have it larger than white detection ring as you want to be the one that sees the enemy first. 

 

 

 

 

Which is why I use minimap. I can work out every tanks view range instantly and know my own so camp with impunity (until I get yolo'd).

Koncorde #15 Posted 26 May 2019 - 11:58 AM

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View PostPontiac Pat, on 25 May 2019 - 02:46 PM, said:

Very good video.  AFAIK, these mechanical details and formula are all the same for us.  The only exception being that we don't have the directives.  Also, let me stress that to get the bonus for a bush it must cover ALL of your vision check points.  If the enemy has direct LOS to even one of them you lose the bonus.

 

I thought the bonus was calculated based upon the number of visible check points? I.e. there are 4 (or 5, or whatever) and if you hide most of them then the penalty to spot you is increased but not as much as if you hid all of them?

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View PostTempest fox3, on 25 May 2019 - 09:56 AM, said:

 

Did they ever add the vision check point to the gun barrel? I know it was planned at one point not sure if they ever followed through. 

 

I’m fairly certain they have. I get quite often get spotted targets for tanks that I can only see the barrel poking around an obstacle. 

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Pontiac Pat #17 Posted 26 May 2019 - 03:08 PM

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View PostKoncorde, on 26 May 2019 - 03:58 AM, said:

 

I thought the bonus was calculated based upon the number of visible check points? I.e. there are 4 (or 5, or whatever) and if you hide most of them then the penalty to spot you is increased but not as much as if you hid all of them?

 

Nope.  It's all or nothing.

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Saerbhreathach #18 Posted 26 May 2019 - 04:00 PM

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View PostPontiac Pat, on 25 May 2019 - 10:52 PM, said:

Remember that our versions of the maps have a lot less vegetation, so who knows how many of those listed actually apply to our versions of the maps.

 

Fair point, I didn't mention that cause I just assumed everyone else knows we don't have as much as PC as well...lol

I probably should have mentioned it all the same....thanks for covering my rear! :)

 

View PostFusionStar287, on 25 May 2019 - 11:10 PM, said:

By the way, one thing I've noticed is that Bamboo (namely on Pearl River) gives far better concealment than you would expect (either it's counted as heavy foliage or there's so much of it that it adds up). Also, it seems like knocked over trees almost always provide less concealment than the majority of bushes.

 

Odd I've always felt that the bamboo never provide any camo bonus....

Tress do provide camo, just like bushes BUT how much camo they provide is dependent on how full the tree canopy is and the type of tree as well effects how much camo it provides. Generally bushes are the better choice, but if you can find the right tree(s) and knock them over you can become virtually invisible. Besides the act of knocking them over giving your position away that is....lol.

 

The part about trees that I question if it works or not is when you're up high looking through or down through the trees canopy. On PC being level with or above the tree canopy provides camo, I've not noticed it working on console.....



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View Postanimatethant, on 26 May 2019 - 01:43 AM, said:

So, does any of this partially explain why historically people have complained about "fake" bushes?

 

That maybe some bushes either actually don't register as camo producing or people mistakenly think they have covered all their vision ports but haven't?

 

Not sure how PC players have done any testing, if any, in any detail.

 

On XB1/PS4 there are small "pretty" bushes that are just there for scenery, and don't give bonuses. Those bushes are not rendered in the 360 version.  SovietDeath argued with me that the bush had to be at least as big as your tank to give any bonus.

 

But then I started talking about coming up over a hill that had a small fake bush on it. Why didn't that give any cover?  It's big enough to cover your turret while you're peaking over. But I guess that doesn't give any bonus.

 

So that is an example of a fake bush.  And since tanks are variable in size, there could be small fake bushes that would fully cover something like an Even 90. I don't know. But it's an advantage to playing on 360. It only has real bushes.


 

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scwirpeo #20 Posted 26 May 2019 - 04:44 PM

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It should be the same. Just be aware we only have a few large bushes in the entire game, most of our maps lack them completely. Additionally as Toc stated several small bushes just don't exist on 360 and apparently in the name of parity that means they provide no bonus.

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