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The Machine: Your Opinion So Far

The Machine Opinion Nerf Buff Leave it alone Perfectly Balanced

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Poll: The Machine (103 members have cast votes)

You have to complete 50 battles in order to participate this poll.

Do You Think The Machine Needs To Be Adjusted?

  1. Yes, I believe it's overpowered and needs a nerf (32 votes [31.07%])

    Percentage of vote: 31.07%

  2. Yes, I believe it's underpowered and needs a buff (8 votes [7.77%])

    Percentage of vote: 7.77%

  3. No, I believe it's pretty balanced as is (51 votes [49.51%])

    Percentage of vote: 49.51%

  4. There's not enough of them to give an answer yet (12 votes [11.65%])

    Percentage of vote: 11.65%

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Axelrose93 #1 Posted 31 May 2019 - 06:27 AM

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I posted this as a comment in another thread that said the machine needed a nerf but I felt I wrote it in depth and wanted to get everyone else's opinions on how it's performing so far.

 

So as a player who put the time into grinding out the machine (and with roughly 200 battles played in it both alone, in a platoon and in a platoon of 4 or 5 machines) I have to say that the tank is probably as balanced as it can be. I'll break this down in as much as I can going to each aspect of the tank and please share your experiences and opinion on my statements:

 

First is the gun. A four shot 100mm at 320 average with a 0.35 accuracy is pretty good to put in damage quickly with the 1.5s inter-shot reload. The alpha and reload are below the T57 Heavy for the four shot clip with the best I could get the reload to be was 25.05s where the T57 was ~22s (Don't own the T57, relied on a friend to tell me this) So looking at the gun alone it's not the best but with the turret armor and maneuverability it makes it competitive. But lets go further down before we group it all together.

 

The Turret, a Chieftain turret is really nice along with 10deg of depression makes being on ridgelines almost impossible to pen. This is also with the Sharpshooter and the actual Chieftain. Simply put ridgelines make the machine quite a threat but that's not often especially when you look at the subpar viewrange and lacking camo, being out spotted happens quite often to me so I rely on close/medium engagements and have a team as backup.

 

The Hull, an AMX 50B hull isn't that great. You cannot sidescrape at all because the armor is so thin everything will overmatch above a 90mm gun (almost every tier 10 and 9 has a larger caliber). So with that basically any angle and you lose hp, kinda bad imo except the front where the armor is the best in addition to the 10deg of depression to make that angle even sharper. Reinforcing the statement: ridgelines are the best place for this tank. The tracks don't have the best resistances which i'll combine with the engine next...

 

The engine: 1200hp is nice along with the 20ish hp/t ratio is pretty nice but getting up to and above 55 is a struggle on most maps. Going uphill you'll slow to about 30ish and downhill you'll fly at 68-71. This is nice to get to position quickly but you're not circling tanks with the paper hull, maybe if someone's alone sure but usually you'll lose hp regardless. Ramming is also an available option thanks to the weight, nice combo with the speed to do a good amount of damage.

 

Overall I find the tank pretty good playing solo but it needs the support of the team to do well. The reload makes it vulnerable and being alone it could be a death sentence. I've been in games thinking I had support just to empty my clip and find myself alone and dying so it takes a smart player to have good situational awareness and positioning. You really can't just outmaneuver anything with the size and lack of armor. I basically would judge whether or not I could clip something to death, push and dump all four rounds and then point the armor straight at the most immediate threat hoping they don't pen. Being in a platoon makes things easier as the team support is actually there and then being in a squad of four or five machines is a different story entirely...

 

Being in a squad of two machines you can get off eight shots in 4.5s which totals an average of 2560 damage. You can disintegrate most tanks if you work together and if you add to three or four machines together and you have a rolling death machine just clipping tanks left and right, timing the reloads and baiting shots and just speeding towards tanks really is something quite scary but it's completely comparable to a platoon of Batchat 25t. I mean five 25t, five shots of 390 is 1950 each so it's 9750 alpha. Five machines is 6400 alpha so it's well within the range of being acceptable. It's an arty magnet because it's easy to pen. The average player will have a hard time in the tank.



im_balthazur #2 Posted 31 May 2019 - 06:47 AM

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Grinded it out on a day? Ok

Fishfood50 #3 Posted 31 May 2019 - 07:17 AM

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Not feeling that it's OP, it's nice but I'd rather use the 50B or even the T57

f1mitku #4 Posted 31 May 2019 - 07:42 AM

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The Machine is OK as is.

 

But all nerfs from 4.6 downgrade should be reversed like: TVP T 50/51; Skoda T 50; Maus; Type 4 & 5 Heavy; E50 etc. ALL the rest. 


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x rocketfish x #5 Posted 31 May 2019 - 07:45 AM

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You neglected to mention the significantly better gun handling and aim time when comparing it to the 57

spuddud987654321 #6 Posted 31 May 2019 - 10:57 AM

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Well you can't play it like a heavy.  Can't side scrape.  Can't play it against other heavy tanks hull down well.  Accuracy is good but it's not worth carrying he because of low alpha.  Against other heavy tanks in tier you lose the armor battle every time.  

Comparing it to other auto loaders in tier is weird too.  The comparison is of course the t57 and French.  The t57 has better clip potential and good front armor to roll up dump a shot.  Bounce one in exchange and dump the last 3. You try that with the machine and you lose up every time.  It has more accuracy then both the t57 and French heavy but lower alpha.  That imo is a wash.

Comparing it to the bat chat and 50/51.  I'd rather have the lower profile of either medium.  At least you get the odd bounce.  The machine gets penned thru the hull every time.

I'd say it's unique.  Let folks get crew skills to compare and more to get it before anybody can even tell what we have in the tank.  Mostly those who have it now have either deep pockets or are gonna make any tank out perform its capabilities.

ThermalStone #7 Posted 31 May 2019 - 01:10 PM

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Sounds like it's best comparison in the 50B and trades some alpha and top speed for better interclip and full clip load time and the ability to go hull down.  Sounds fine to me but not gamebreaking. BTW I actually prefer the 50B over the T57 in pubs for its superior mobility.  No one expects a tank with that firepower to show up early in the game with the scouts.

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Blakenstein131 #8 Posted 04 June 2019 - 11:00 PM

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Very informative summary Axelrose93 thanks.

 

What equipment are people putting on this tank and is there any gameplay vids for it, cant seem to find much online that offers any real value.



Sentience #9 Posted 05 June 2019 - 03:28 AM

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Do you think the Rampanzer is overpowered? I ask, because I think of the Machine as a tier X Rampanzer, with an auto loader.

 

I’m going to benchmark it against the Object 140. A long time “excellent” tier X medium.

 

Gun: Identical standard damage, idential accuracy, virtually identical aim time. Machine has 3 degrees better elevation, 4 degrees better depression. 140 has better ‘true DPM’, but Machine has burst potential. 140 has better penetration (+16 standard, +20 premium), but honestly, both are sufficient for that fast attack, flanker playstyle.

 

Turret: Machine has slightly better frontal turret armor, slightly less (-10) view range. Turret traverse is better on the 140 (+8), but not a deal breaker.

 

Engine/Hull: Machine has notably better hp/t ratio (20.48 > 16.11), at worse terrain resistance. In game, it has no issues whatsoever keeping pace with the 140 in mixed terrain/elevation. Top speed is actually 12 km/h higher (!), than 140.  Since the Machine is 60% heavier (58000 > 36000), it can leverage its speed to cause significant ramming damage. 140 has significantly better traverse speed; although it cannot ram, it can run circles effectively. Since you’re playing both as a fast attack flanker, the lack of hull armour is a non-issue. The Machine has 200 more hp.

 

Misc: 140 has good camouflage values, the Machine does not. Machine makes up for this with its speed... the “o-bleep-how-did-a-heavy-get-here” moment. Machine actually has better radio range, nearly as good view range. For the fast attacker playstyle, these aren’t deal breakers.

 

TLDR summary: It’s a tier X Rampanzer. With an Autoloader. Tier X is going to be so awesome in 100 or so days...

 


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Axelrose93 #10 Posted 05 June 2019 - 05:34 AM

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View PostSentience, on 04 June 2019 - 10:28 PM, said:

Do you think the Rampanzer is overpowered? I ask, because I think of the Machine as a tier X Rampanzer, with an auto loader.

 

I’m going to benchmark it against the Object 140. A long time “excellent” tier X medium.

 

Gun: Identical standard damage, idential accuracy, virtually identical aim time. Machine has 3 degrees better elevation, 4 degrees better depression. 140 has better ‘true DPM’, but Machine has burst potential. 140 has better penetration (+16 standard, +20 premium), but honestly, both are sufficient for that fast attack, flanker playstyle.

 

Turret: Machine has slightly better frontal turret armor, slightly less (-10) view range. Turret traverse is better on the 140 (+8), but not a deal breaker.

 

Engine/Hull: Machine has notably better hp/t ratio (20.48 > 16.11), at worse terrain resistance. In game, it has no issues whatsoever keeping pace with the 140 in mixed terrain/elevation. Top speed is actually 12 km/h higher (!), than 140.  Since the Machine is 60% heavier (58000 > 36000), it can leverage its speed to cause significant ramming damage. 140 has significantly better traverse speed; although it cannot ram, it can run circles effectively. Since you’re playing both as a fast attack flanker, the lack of hull armour is a non-issue. The Machine has 200 more hp.

 

Misc: 140 has good camouflage values, the Machine does not. Machine makes up for this with its speed... the “o-bleep-how-did-a-heavy-get-here” moment. Machine actually has better radio range, nearly as good view range. For the fast attacker playstyle, these aren’t deal breakers.

 

TLDR summary: It’s a tier X Rampanzer. With an Autoloader. Tier X is going to be so awesome in 100 or so days...

 

 

It's an interesting comparison but one I'd have to take on paper stats mostly...I don't have the ram panzer or the 140 sadly, not yet at least!

 

From what I've  seen, the acceleration of the light tanks will always out match the Machine up hills, downhill they'd pretty much be the same (terrifying to see a heavy keep up with a light/medium or even go faster!) But adding the weight and potential ramming makes charging a viable option.

 

Circling tanks would only work in a 1v1, the terrain resistances, turning radius and acceleration doesn't make the maching good for that and you'd almost always get caught by the turret rotations and shot. The hull armor is atrocious and large so there's little chance of dodging shots.

 

The real shining point for lights is speed, maneuverability and spotting. Machine has good speed, OK maneuverability and less than average spotting. The gun at that point I don't think would matter, put two skilled people in each tank and have a face off it'd be hard to see who would win.

 

The 140 I'd say would have a hard time beating a machine, the lack of speed/maneuverability would mean a machine could charge in, pen 3 or 4 and take out the rest with a ram (or most).

 

I've gotten a lot of respect for the light tanks as of this year. I was an average of 2100 wn8, got the AMX 13 105 and all of a sudden something clicked and my play has sky rocketed, up to 2500 so far because of an unexplainable new mentality



Axelrose93 #11 Posted 05 June 2019 - 05:38 AM

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View PostThermalStone, on 31 May 2019 - 08:10 AM, said:

Sounds like it's best comparison in the 50B and trades some alpha and top speed for better interclip and full clip load time and the ability to go hull down.  Sounds fine to me but not gamebreaking. BTW I actually prefer the 50B over the T57 in pubs for its superior mobility.  No one expects a tank with that firepower to show up early in the game with the scouts.

 

I'd agree and say the 50B is great because of that speed, but the machine matches it with better turret armor. It's like the best of the three nations: British, French and Czechoslovakian. Smaller gun but man you can get in, load 4 shots in 4.5s and get out fast

Axelrose93 #12 Posted 05 June 2019 - 05:46 AM

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View PostBlakenstein131, on 04 June 2019 - 06:00 PM, said:

Very informative summary Axelrose93 thanks.

 

What equipment are people putting on this tank and is there any gameplay vids for it, cant seem to find much online that offers any real value.

 

Thank you, I was wondering what everyone thought cause I saw a thread saying nerf it already. I honestly didnt think so but wanted to get an overall opinion from people and I didn't see a poll!

 

I could record a couple of games and post them here but so far I just have short clips, I think I play pretty well but that'll be for everyone to judge lol



Axelrose93 #13 Posted 05 June 2019 - 05:56 AM

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View Postspuddud987654321, on 31 May 2019 - 05:57 AM, said:

Well you can't play it like a heavy. Can't side scrape. Can't play it against other heavy tanks hull down well. Accuracy is good but it's not worth carrying he because of low alpha. Against other heavy tanks in tier you lose the armor battle every time.

Comparing it to other auto loaders in tier is weird too. The comparison is of course the t57 and French. The t57 has better clip potential and good front armor to roll up dump a shot. Bounce one in exchange and dump the last 3. You try that with the machine and you lose up every time. It has more accuracy then both the t57 and French heavy but lower alpha. That imo is a wash.

Comparing it to the bat chat and 50/51. I'd rather have the lower profile of either medium. At least you get the odd bounce. The machine gets penned thru the hull every time.

I'd say it's unique. Let folks get crew skills to compare and more to get it before anybody can even tell what we have in the tank. Mostly those who have it now have either deep pockets or are gonna make any tank out perform its capabilities.

 

Fair points there, I can see it being outclassed by the 57 and other autos and definitely cannot sidescrape. But I might add that the fontal armor is derpy. I.E. I bounced a Jag E100 off the lower plate and didn't understand what happened or why.

 

The speed makes people panic too, I charged an E4, they panic shot me and bounced off the upper plate. After grinding out that 1.5M experience I'm pretty content with its performances so far.

 

Also I carry 8 he for arty and waffles but it's got so much ammo you never burn through it all



SILVRCAT #14 Posted 06 June 2019 - 11:48 PM

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The Machine is currently balanced and doesn’t need to be touched. It’s not an Overpowered tank as rumored to be. It’s not OP nor invincible. Right now its a very Fun tank to play. I sincerely hope they don’t modify it, that would be another blow again to us players.



M4ntiX #15 Posted 07 June 2019 - 12:14 AM

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The Machine is op when played correctly. It isn't a typical heavy tank, should probably be classed as a medium and needs to be played like one (mostly due to relatively low alpha and clip potential). It has light tank mobility, medium tank gun handling, heavy tank armor. Pretty much unlimited ammo, great gun depression, 4-shot autoloader with 25 second reload, HEAT as prammo for slicing through thick armour frontally, nearly impenetrable turret when hull down...

You'd have to be mad to think this vehicle is balanced.

 

I am still learning how to play it and I agree it is very fun, but for the love of God... please nerf the Machine!

 

Take away some of its mobility and ammo, maybe give it a longer intra-clip reload or less gun depression. A larger commander's hatch would also work. Something needs to be done about this tank. As a support heavy it simply is too good.


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XT356 #16 Posted 07 June 2019 - 05:28 AM

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Needs a speed readjustment. I find it a tad bit too fast. Other than that, its fine.
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John-berg1995 #17 Posted 07 June 2019 - 12:52 PM

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60+ km/h top speed
-10 degrees of gun depression
1,300 clip potential
cheiftain turret
Amazing 50B hull

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natedaishmaster #18 Posted 07 June 2019 - 03:07 PM

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View PostSentience, on 04 June 2019 - 07:28 PM, said:

Do you think the Rampanzer is overpowered? I ask, because I think of the Machine as a tier X Rampanzer, with an auto loader.

 

I’m going to benchmark it against the Object 140. A long time “excellent” tier X medium.

 

Gun: Identical standard damage, idential accuracy, virtually identical aim time. Machine has 3 degrees better elevation, 4 degrees better depression. 140 has better ‘true DPM’, but Machine has burst potential. 140 has better penetration (+16 standard, +20 premium), but honestly, both are sufficient for that fast attack, flanker playstyle. 

You understate this issue to make a point. The Machine has horrible shot dispersion limiting the speed and accuracy of the clip and it has worse hull and turret dispersion than the 140 by a lot. The 140 can afford to shoot on the move but The Machine, due to its limited clip cannot. Add to that the fact that the DPM of the 140 so much better for farming from a flank. The gun arguement can go both ways.

 

Turret: Machine has slightly better frontal turret armor, slightly less (-10) view range. Turret traverse is better on the 140 (+8), but not a deal breaker.

The Chieftan turret is one of the best in the game. Great protection and gun depression. View range is disapointing

 

Engine/Hull: Machine has notably better hp/t ratio (20.48 > 16.11), at worse terrain resistance. In game, it has no issues whatsoever keeping pace with the 140 in mixed terrain/elevation. Top speed is actually 12 km/h higher (!), than 140.  Since the Machine is 60% heavier (58000 > 36000), it can leverage its speed to cause significant ramming damage. 140 has significantly better traverse speed; although it cannot ram, it can run circles effectively. Since you’re playing both as a fast attack flanker, the lack of hull armour is a non-issue. The Machine has 200 more hp.

The Machine is crazy fast downhill or on good terrain. It is a bit large for a medium role. Ramming is fairly fringe anyway, not very reliable. Hull is decent frontally, but weakspots plus lack of any side armor makes the hull medicore overall

 

Misc: 140 has good camouflage values, the Machine does not. Machine makes up for this with its speed... the “o-bleep-how-did-a-heavy-get-here” moment. Machine actually has better radio range, nearly as good view range. For the fast attacker playstyle, these aren’t deal breakers.

Camo is as important as view range in a medium role. The Machine can't command view range on a flank or harass tanks unseen like a true medium can. The view range is actually much worse since you can't really run optics due to the interclip dispersion being so bad so you have to run vents, gld, vstab

 

TLDR summary: It’s a tier X Rampanzer. With an Autoloader. Tier X is going to be so awesome in 100 or so days...

TLDR: it's a pretty good tank that has a lot of limitations as well as strengths

 

 

Everybody expected it to be this to be a monsterous tank but it is different. In the 85 games I have so far, it seems pretty good. The gun both limits and defines the tank. With a standard 120mm gun, it would be a much better tank. The Chieftan turret gives the tank the ability to expose itself for extended amounts of time to get a clip off, but the clip is the fastest in the game.The aimtime is bad compared to the dispersion interclip (I have GLD, Vents, Stab, food, and all of the gun perks and I'm not fully aimed in by the time the next shot is ready) and the pen is lacking, especially with the so-so accuracy. The armor doesn't hold up well to poking and prolonged engagements but hull down and rushing an enemy, it is fantastic. Any shot to the side of the tank will pen and you have fairly easy to hit weak spots if you are not hull down. It has ridiculous speed, outpacing almost all medium tanks on flat ground, but in a medium tank role, it has poor view range and camo plus mediocre DPM. It is definitely a good tank but it is a bit of a misfit. Good speed but poor spotting ability. Good armor and hull down ability, but a gun that doesn't take advantage of it. A very good tank, but not the broken monster everyone expected

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View Postnatedaishmaster, on 07 June 2019 - 03:07 PM, said:

 

 

Everybody expected it to be this to be a monsterous tank but it is different. In the 85 games I have so far, it seems pretty good. The gun both limits and defines the tank. With a standard 120mm gun, it would be a much better tank. The Chieftan turret gives the tank the ability to expose itself for extended amounts of time to get a clip off, but the clip is the fastest in the game.The aimtime is bad compared to the dispersion interclip (I have GLD, Vents, Stab, food, and all of the gun perks and I'm not fully aimed in by the time the next shot is ready) and the pen is lacking, especially with the so-so accuracy. The armor doesn't hold up well to poking and prolonged engagements but hull down and rushing an enemy, it is fantastic. Any shot to the side of the tank will pen and you have fairly easy to hit weak spots if you are not hull down. It has ridiculous speed, outpacing almost all medium tanks on flat ground, but in a medium tank role, it has poor view range and camo plus mediocre DPM. It is definitely a good tank but it is a bit of a misfit. Good speed but poor spotting ability. Good armor and hull down ability, but a gun that doesn't take advantage of it. A very good tank, but not the broken monster everyone expected

The problem is that a good player will do much better in this tank than any other tank. for Christ sake it's a cheiftain that can take 1,300 damage off any tank within a few seconds. All while having cheiftain turret and the 50B hull, oh and the is-7s engine so it can relocate faster than some mediums ! LOL 

 

If I was in charge. Instant nerf to top speed down to 38



natedaishmaster #20 Posted 07 June 2019 - 04:37 PM

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View PostJohn-berg1995, on 07 June 2019 - 08:18 AM, said:

The problem is that a good player will do much better in this tank than any other tank. for Christ sake it's a cheiftain that can take 1,300 damage off any tank within a few seconds. All while having cheiftain turret and the 50B hull, oh and the is-7s engine so it can relocate faster than some mediums ! LOL 

 

If I was in charge. Instant nerf to top speed down to 38

 

That's just not true. As far as I can tell, it is performing above average, but not excessively. Personally, The Machine is below my Sconq, 5a, and 430U in terms of damage per game. 1300 damage in a clip is a pipe dream. Medicore accuracy and dispersion plus bad pen on APCR/HEAT means that you'll probably bounce a shot or 2 in a brawl with heavies or miss a shot or 2 at range with mediums. So what it gets a clip off? The reload is longer than the 57 heavy. The Chieftan's strength is abusing ridges and an accurate gun to spit DPM. The hull, turret, engine combo is very good on The Machine. The TVP gun is the worst gun for the tank honestly. Any other gun would make it OP. The bad gun makes it just very good

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