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Event Pen Rng

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scwirpeo #1 Posted 02 August 2019 - 01:42 PM

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I just wanted everyone to understand during this event we will have Jag E-100s with exactly 420 HEAT pen at all times. It will never roll in the 300 range, it will pen your ufp every single time your armor is not a perfect 71% or exceeds that 420 value. We will have tier 10 and 9 and even 8 Arty with AP that can never roll under 300 pen, that is unbelievable and frankly makes the class broken beyond even the current state of prem HE.

 

This is not a gameplay change that can be considered even slightly viable, especially with the current state of our premium ammo "balance". Our casual players will likely not understand what's happening in this event and you are just asking to breed confusion with these players who won't have read the event article. Especially among heavy mains who won't stand to be anything but TD poop socks for a full week. I wouldn't be surprised if this doesn't permanently impact our remaining player base numbers.

 

 

This is an entirely bad move and I cannot support this choice. I will likely not be playing at all during this event.


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R35T NO MORE #2 Posted 02 August 2019 - 01:48 PM

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I'm a heavy main and I'm not going anywhere the sights of a Jageroo or even an STRV S1 lol. Might use that more this week, a definite 288 pen on the tier 8 will be amusing. Lowe AP R rolling for 294 every time too, that should be fun for winding up tier 10 heavies as it scratches them to death. Slowly. 



scwirpeo #3 Posted 02 August 2019 - 01:55 PM

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View PostR35T NO MORE, on 02 August 2019 - 06:48 AM, said:

I'm a heavy main and I'm not going anywhere the sights of a Jageroo or even an STRV S1 lol. Might use that more this week, a definite 288 pen on the tier 8 will be amusing. Lowe AP R rolling for 294 every time too, that should be fun for winding up tier 10 heavies as it scratches them to death. Slowly. 

 

Well just imagine the E-100 players who literally won't even be able to rely on luck against premium. The e3 is going to be literally frontally invincible against half of tier 8. All I see this change doing is frustrating players. 

 

These guys didn't even know there was a +-1 event going on. Just imagine what this is going to do to a player base that doesn't even understand their shells have pen rolls or alpha rolls.


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natedaishmaster #4 Posted 02 August 2019 - 02:11 PM

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View Postscwirpeo, on 02 August 2019 - 05:42 AM, said:

I just wanted everyone to understand during this event we will have Jag E-100s with exactly 420 HEAT pen at all times. It will never roll in the 300 range, it will pen your ufp every single time your armor is not a perfect 71% or exceeds that 420 value. We will have tier 10 and 9 and even 8 Arty with AP that can never roll under 300 pen, that is unbelievable and frankly makes the class broken beyond even the current state of prem HE.

 

This is not a gameplay change that can be considered even slightly viable, especially with the current state of our premium ammo "balance". Our casual players will likely not understand what's happening in this event and you are just asking to breed confusion with these players who won't have read the event article. Especially among heavy mains who won't stand to be anything but TD poop socks for a full week. I wouldn't be surprised if this doesn't permanently impact our remaining player base numbers.

 

 

This is an entirely bad move and I cannot support this choice. I will likely not be playing at all during this event.

 

WG tries to implement a change suggested by the community and shocker, the tank community shows its toxicity yet again. It is amazing that WG is trying new things. Seriously though, this change will be good for the game. A reduction in RNG is an excellent change, though it benefits good players more. I only really notice the extreme high/low pen rolls TBH and the reduction in alpha is welcome too since I can more easily gauge if I can engage an enemy. Every tank benefits from both high and low pen rolls and angling changes the math significantly enough that it wont be that different anyway.

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R35T NO MORE #5 Posted 02 August 2019 - 02:13 PM

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View Postscwirpeo, on 02 August 2019 - 01:55 PM, said:

 

Well just imagine the E-100 players who literally won't even be able to rely on luck against premium. The e3 is going to be literally frontally invincible against half of tier 8. All I see this change doing is frustrating players. 

 

These guys didn't even know there was a +-1 event going on. Just imagine what this is going to do to a player base that doesn't even understand their shells have pen rolls or alpha rolls.

 

Tbf mate they do will what always do, make up theories. You are right though, most of the player base won't understand it, or they will think it affects things that it doensnt, like a guy earlier thinking it will mean his Jageroo HEAT won't bounce off Batchats anymore (it will of course as RNG doesn't change the fact that HEAT can't overmatch).

 

I'm looking forward to the test as I think/hope I'll be able to use it to my advantage more than the average pubbie. 



scwirpeo #6 Posted 02 August 2019 - 02:22 PM

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View PostR35T NO MORE, on 02 August 2019 - 07:13 AM, said:

 

Tbf mate they do will what always do, make up theories. You are right though, most of the player base won't understand it, or they will think it affects things that it doensnt, like a guy earlier thinking it will mean his Jageroo HEAT won't bounce off Batchats anymore (it will of course as RNG doesn't change the fact that HEAT can't overmatch).

 

I'm looking forward to the test as I think/hope I'll be able to use it to my advantage more than the average pubbie. 

 

If WG had tried this a few years ago I wouldn't have been as apprehensive. However we are sitting at 9k on peak weekend times. 

 

This game is full of neanderthals who think every time they bounce their tank got a Nerf. And WG thinks these people will be able to comprehend what's happening when every tank they use starts acting funny?

 

 

It's going to be chaos.

View Postnatedaishmaster, on 02 August 2019 - 07:11 AM, said:

 

WG tries to implement a change suggested by the community and shocker, the tank community shows its toxicity yet again. It is amazing that WG is trying new things. Seriously though, this change will be good for the game. A reduction in RNG is an excellent change, though it benefits good players more. I only really notice the extreme high/low pen rolls TBH and the reduction in alpha is welcome too since I can more easily gauge if I can engage an enemy. Every tank benefits from both high and low pen rolls and angling changes the math significantly enough that it wont be that different anyway.

 

Pubs don't angle dude. They get lucky. You aren't accounting for the fact that half the bounces and pens these pubs get is from good rng. Trig has an upper limit, I guarantee alot of the bounces you see are from the same thing, less about your raw armor value and more about pen rolls.

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redshadowrider #7 Posted 02 August 2019 - 02:26 PM

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To be fair, this is only a test, not a permanent change.  I am still wondering what the -1/+1 showed, no update has been provided.  And, while the community asked for RNG and similar changes, no one that I remember asked for a complete removal.
I'm just saying.....

X1thebeast29X #8 Posted 02 August 2019 - 02:29 PM

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What I'm hearing is it's time to spam 268, t92ap etc

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Pit Friend #9 Posted 02 August 2019 - 02:29 PM

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I’m still surprised they’re going to 0 RNG instead of just reducing it to 15 or 10 percent instead of the normal 25.

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scwirpeo #10 Posted 02 August 2019 - 02:30 PM

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View Postredshadowrider, on 02 August 2019 - 07:26 AM, said:

To be fair, this is only a test, not a permanent change.  I am still wondering what the -1/+1 showed, no update has been provided.  And, while the community asked for RNG and similar changes, no one that I remember asked for a complete removal.

 

You know it's a test. That doesn't mean the 29 other players on your team will. We would be lucky if half of them even look up what's happening and don't just go " herp derp WG brokeded meh gumeh me no play ever again".

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R35T NO MORE #11 Posted 02 August 2019 - 02:35 PM

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View Postscwirpeo, on 02 August 2019 - 02:30 PM, said:

 

You know it's a test. That doesn't mean the 29 other players on your team will. We would be lucky if half of them even look up what's happening and don't just go " herp derp WG brokeded meh gumeh me no play ever again".

 

This is a fair point. 

scwirpeo #12 Posted 02 August 2019 - 02:40 PM

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View PostX1thebeast29X, on 02 August 2019 - 07:29 AM, said:

What I'm hearing is it's time to spam 268, t92ap etc

 

The E4 apcr and 395 pen TD heat is especially concerning for me. What really sets me off is the low tiers tho. Alot of them rely exclusively on rng, tanks will see alot more advantage from normalization in those tiers. It will likely add confusion for players who otherwise might think that is still some kind of rng. All the situations I see result in this exploding in WGs face.

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SPUK4U #13 Posted 02 August 2019 - 02:42 PM

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View PostR35T NO MORE, on 02 August 2019 - 01:48 PM, said:

I'm a heavy main and I'm not going anywhere the sights of a Jageroo or even an STRV S1 lol. Might use that more this week, a definite 288 pen on the tier 8 will be amusing. Lowe AP R rolling for 294 every time too, that should be fun for winding up tier 10 heavies as it scratches them to death. Slowly. 

 

You need to note that Strv S1 use only APCR so there is distance loss in penetration and that 288 pen is reduced after 100m -5% / ever additional 100m.  So you are not facing 288 pen shell at 400m it's more like 240 pen shell.  Now, I'm not sure of exact formula as it varied based on gun caliber, maybe someone has the date and can open it up better than me. 


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ooo NO ONE ooo #14 Posted 02 August 2019 - 02:44 PM

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View PostPit Friend, on 02 August 2019 - 02:29 PM, said:

I’m still surprised they’re going to 0 RNG instead of just reducing it to 15 or 10 percent instead of the normal 25.

 

Same. Very!

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scwirpeo #15 Posted 02 August 2019 - 02:47 PM

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View PostSPUK4U, on 02 August 2019 - 07:42 AM, said:

 

You need to note that Strv S1 use only APCR so there is distance loss in penetration and that 288 pen is reduced after 100m -5% / ever additional 100m.  So you are not facing 288 pen shell at 400m it's more like 240 pen shell.  Now, I'm not sure of exact formula as it varied based on gun caliber, maybe someone has the date and can open it up better than me. 

 

It's a specific value based on the individual gun. Apcr standard tanks don't follow the increase in pen loss from premium apcr. I can't find specific values for the strv but frankly I would be surprised if it was more than a 4m loss of pen every 100M.

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R35T NO MORE #16 Posted 02 August 2019 - 02:50 PM

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View PostSPUK4U, on 02 August 2019 - 02:42 PM, said:

 

You need to note that Strv S1 use only APCR so there is distance loss in penetration and that 288 pen is reduced after 100m -5% / ever additional 100m.  So you are not facing 288 pen shell at 400m it's more like 240 pen shell.  Now, I'm not sure of exact formula as it varied based on gun caliber, maybe someone has the date and can open it up better than me. 

 

I play mine quite aggressively alot of the time (I'm an idiot like that) so it'll still be very close to the 288 as its standard APCR not prem (diff rules so to speak), however you are correct it won't be exactly 288 when it hits, maybe 276-280, still plenty though :) I forgot about the APCR pen loss truth be told. 

natedaishmaster #17 Posted 02 August 2019 - 03:03 PM

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View Postscwirpeo, on 02 August 2019 - 06:22 AM, said:

 

If WG had tried this a few years ago I wouldn't have been as apprehensive. However we are sitting at 9k on peak weekend times. 

 

This game is full of neanderthals who think every time they bounce their tank got a Nerf. And WG thinks these people will be able to comprehend what's happening when every tank they use starts acting funny?

 

 

It's going to be chaos.

 

Pubs don't angle dude. They get lucky. You aren't accounting for the fact that half the bounces and pens these pubs get is from good rng. Trig has an upper limit, I guarantee alot of the bounces you see are from the same thing, less about your raw armor value and more about pen rolls.

 

Trig in this case literally doesn't have an upper limit. As angle of armor approaches 90, thickness approaches infinity. Angling happens constantly. Even if it is accidental, angles will still change (circling a tank, a tank turning their turret slightly to engage another enemy, etc). The main times I notice pen high rolls is when my shot misses the weakspot and pens anyway (E4 missing the lower plate of an E100 and going through the upper plate) on flat ground. Overmatch and normalization mechanics will stay the same but I think they removed the pen drop over distance for non HEAT rounds, but the wording is weird so I'm not sure.

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scwirpeo #18 Posted 02 August 2019 - 03:06 PM

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View PostR35T NO MORE, on 02 August 2019 - 07:50 AM, said:

 

I play mine quite aggressively alot of the time (I'm an idiot like that) so it'll still be very close to the 288 as its standard APCR not prem (diff rules so to speak), however you are correct it won't be exactly 288 when it hits, maybe 276-280, still plenty though :) I forgot about the APCR pen loss truth be told. 

 

It doesn't help that PC ran that sandbox test for pen loss in 2017. Then decided not to do all the gun changes. As few of us actively play PC it's easy to get caught up in news that then turns into nothing. People publish content for new stuff, not what happens when new stuff stops being new.


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SirlceCream #19 Posted 02 August 2019 - 03:14 PM

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View Postscwirpeo, on 02 August 2019 - 01:42 PM, said:

I just wanted everyone to understand during this event we will have Jag E-100s with exactly 420 HEAT pen at all times. It will never roll in the 300 range, it will pen your ufp every single time your armor is not a perfect 71% or exceeds that 420 value. We will have tier 10 and 9 and even 8 Arty with AP that can never roll under 300 pen, that is unbelievable and frankly makes the class broken beyond even the current state of prem HE.

 

This is not a gameplay change that can be considered even slightly viable, especially with the current state of our premium ammo "balance". Our casual players will likely not understand what's happening in this event and you are just asking to breed confusion with these players who won't have read the event article. Especially among heavy mains who won't stand to be anything but TD poop socks for a full week. I wouldn't be surprised if this doesn't permanently impact our remaining player base numbers.

 

 

This is an entirely bad move and I cannot support this choice. I will likely not be playing at all during this event.

 

You and many other dont see the main point of this change. JagdE heat and pretty much every 340mm heat wasnt really effected by RNG before, thats why you shoot premmo. Even when you have bad luck and roll low you go trough pretty  much every armor. Arty was cancer before and will be cancer during the event nothing changed.

The main point is that you have a guaranteed penetration hit on weakspots even on higher tiers and a much higher chance of bouncing on non weakspots like upper hull armor.

that means people who aim properly at weakspot will rewarded with a higher penetration chance and the player who uses autoaim/ doesnt aim well gets punished. Thats all


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Tempest fox3 #20 Posted 02 August 2019 - 03:15 PM

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View Postscwirpeo, on 02 August 2019 - 01:55 PM, said:

 

Well just imagine the E-100 players who literally won't even be able to rely on luck against premium. The e3 is going to be literally frontally invincible against half of tier 8. All I see this change doing is frustrating players. 

 

These guys didn't even know there was a +-1 event going on. Just imagine what this is going to do to a player base that doesn't even understand their shells have pen rolls or alpha rolls.

 

There is one small benefit I can think of. 183mm hesh won't be able to high roll its way through the front of an E100 turret. I mean, the E100 will still take 700-900 damage anyway but small mercies and all that. 


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