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Otis Z Firefly #21 Posted 19 August 2019 - 01:02 AM

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View Postscwirpeo, on 18 August 2019 - 11:55 PM, said:

 

Well it's not like mao was exactly slowing down when he hit 30+ million killed. His flag is still in the game too. 

 

Guarantee it's fear of Chinese backlash. Always a problem in Western companies even though almost none of them even make a dime in China. Get locked out of the market tho and the investors will be begin crying like the adult diaper wearing man children they are. Always remember companies are run for one reason alone, to please those investors.

 

He killed his own like Stalin. It's when you start killing your neighbours. Have a look at the video I posted.


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Afro Palestine #22 Posted 19 August 2019 - 01:13 AM

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View PostSightlessRogue0, on 17 August 2019 - 09:14 PM, said:

The Soviet regime no doubt committed worse abuses than the other two put together ...

 

No.

scwirpeo #23 Posted 19 August 2019 - 02:27 AM

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View PostOtis Z Firefly, on 18 August 2019 - 06:02 PM, said:

 

He killed his own like Stalin. It's when you start killing your neighbours. Have a look at the video I posted.

 

Tibet Vietnam and Taiwan weren't Chinese. Much like how Ukrainian polish and Czechoslovakian isn't Russian yet millions of them died. 

 

The difference is we didn't go to war with Russia and China has spent the last 50 years pretending Mao wasn't real. If you so much as mention Mao's atrocities in China it can land you in prison. Meanwhile many Japanese schools don't even teach ww2.

 

Investors believe China is the future of economic growth. What they believe is more important than reality in all situations. Much like how Go Pro has convinced their investors that's they can make money, despite the fact they have actually spent something like 360 million US and never turned a profit.


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caglassc #24 Posted 19 August 2019 - 02:43 AM

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View PostAfro Palestine, on 19 August 2019 - 01:13 AM, said:

 

No.

In terms of numbers of people murdered - then yes. 


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Otis Z Firefly #25 Posted 19 August 2019 - 04:29 AM

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View Postscwirpeo, on 19 August 2019 - 02:27 AM, said:

 

Tibet Vietnam and Taiwan weren't Chinese. Much like how Ukrainian polish and Czechoslovakian isn't Russian yet millions of them died. 

 

The difference is we didn't go to war with Russia and China has spent the last 50 years pretending Mao wasn't real. If you so much as mention Mao's atrocities in China it can land you in prison. Meanwhile many Japanese schools don't even teach ww2.

 

Investors believe China is the future of economic growth. What they believe is more important than reality in all situations. Much like how Go Pro has convinced their investors that's they can make money, despite the fact they have actually spent something like 360 million US and never turned a profit.

 

I should have put "own" in quotes. China see those as their territory. The Soviet Union were at war with those places except Ukraine and war validates murder. I'm not validating any of this, just giving reason why the double standards regarding genocide.
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SightlessRogue0 #26 Posted 19 August 2019 - 07:43 AM

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View PostAfro Palestine, on 19 August 2019 - 01:13 AM, said:

 

No.

 

Slavery to death in uranium mines, Gulag or rape, summary execution, free torture of "enemies" of the regime was practiced on a large scale. The purges in the countries liberated (conquered in fact) and speaking of "liberation" .... where the Nazis retreated to make way for the red army, the population was severely punished by all the possible abuses for not having resisted more German, the "Liberation" in fact was worse than the occupation.

 

Be careful, I do not try to make the Nazis look nice guys, they were not. I also do not try to remove the Soviet iconography of the game and make accept the Japanese imperial flag or the swastika .... In short, do not make me say what I did not say. But from the historical point of view we must recognize the monsters, all the monsters.


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ooo NO ONE ooo #27 Posted 19 August 2019 - 08:27 AM

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View PostSightlessRogue0, on 19 August 2019 - 07:43 AM, said:

 

Slavery to death in uranium mines, Gulag or rape, summary execution, free torture of "enemies" of the regime was practiced on a large scale. The purges in the countries liberated (conquered in fact) and speaking of "liberation" .... where the Nazis retreated to make way for the red army, the population was severely punished by all the possible abuses for not having resisted more German, the "Liberation" in fact was worse than the occupation.

 

Be careful, I do not try to make the Nazis look nice guys, they were not. I also do not try to remove the Soviet iconography of the game and make accept the Japanese imperial flag or the swastika .... In short, do not make me say what I did not say. But from the historical point of view we must recognize the monsters, all the monsters.

 

Very very well put.

 

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DiabolicGambit #28 Posted 19 August 2019 - 12:37 PM

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I would love the words KAMAKAZI.  or SEPUKU. too

GinTonicus #29 Posted 19 August 2019 - 05:26 PM

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I would love the option to use the Imperial Japanese flag but at the same time I understand why it might not be included.

 

It's incredibly offensive in certain East Asian countries due to the history of the Japanese in those territories during the 20s/30s/40s - 

 

That said it is freely available in the other free to play tank game



Afro Palestine #30 Posted 20 August 2019 - 03:07 PM

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View Postcaglassc, on 19 August 2019 - 02:43 AM, said:

In terms of numbers of people murdered - then yes.

 

This is a more specific claim, but also not correct.  



dcr66 #31 Posted 20 August 2019 - 03:11 PM

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View PostGinTonicus, on 19 August 2019 - 12:26 PM, said:

I would love the option to use the Imperial Japanese flag but at the same time I understand why it might not be included.

 

It's incredibly offensive in certain East Asian countries due to the history of the Japanese in those territories during the 20s/30s/40s - 

 

That said it is freely available in the other free to play tank game

 

Yes, the rising sun flag is still considered offensive in South East Asia who was occupied as part of the Great Asia Co-Prosperity Circle. 

 

Also the Nazi Swastika is not used in WoT Console or WoWS, same reasons in the European context.


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Afro Palestine #32 Posted 20 August 2019 - 03:15 PM

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View PostSightlessRogue0, on 19 August 2019 - 07:43 AM, said:

 

Slavery to death in uranium mines, Gulag or rape, summary execution, free torture of "enemies" of the regime was practiced on a large scale. The purges in the countries liberated (conquered in fact) and speaking of "liberation" .... where the Nazis retreated to make way for the red army, the population was severely punished by all the possible abuses for not having resisted more German, the "Liberation" in fact was worse than the occupation.

 

Be careful, I do not try to make the Nazis look nice guys, they were not. I also do not try to remove the Soviet iconography of the game and make accept the Japanese imperial flag or the swastika .... In short, do not make me say what I did not say. But from the historical point of view we must recognize the monsters, all the monsters.

 

Soviet crimes and abuses are rightly accounted for in history. But in WW2 they became targets of the Nazis and from an historical point of view were allies - allies who destroyed 8 out of 10 German soldiers and broke the back of the Nazi fighting machine.  Soviet Russia endured unbelievable agony on a scale never seen before or since - mainly due to the bravery and resilience of the Russian people.   In this light Soviet flag emblems are appropriate in ww2 sim game in a way Imperial Japanese or Nazi emblems could not be.

SightlessRogue0 #33 Posted 20 August 2019 - 03:52 PM

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View PostAfro Palestine, on 20 August 2019 - 03:15 PM, said:

 

Soviet crimes and abuses are rightly accounted for in history. But in WW2 they became targets of the Nazis and from an historical point of view were allies - allies who destroyed 8 out of 10 German soldiers and broke the back of the Nazi fighting machine.  Soviet Russia endured unbelievable agony on a scale never seen before or since - mainly due to the bravery and resilience of the Russian people.   In this light Soviet flag emblems are appropriate in ww2 sim game in a way Imperial Japanese or Nazi emblems could not be.

We do not talk about morality here. In addition we could also talk about the hell of communism, millions of people living in a gray and cold hell without any hope except to find ... maybe ... a piece of damaged meat of any gram sold at the price of a kidney to the market. Of these millions of children raised in sadness with only one hope for the future: to go west may be a day.

 

A lot of parameters here, do not try to re-write the story ... we know it well: The Soviet Union was destined from its first day to go bankrupt at one time or another, all the horrors committed by this regime (and there have been so many that it is impossible to really count them, we will always be well under the account) had only one goal: to push the inevitable to later.

 

We talk about the flag it seems to me (Besides, I still do not understand your interest in wanting to pass a monster for an angel).


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ooo NO ONE ooo #34 Posted 20 August 2019 - 04:31 PM

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View PostAfro Palestine, on 20 August 2019 - 03:15 PM, said:

 

Soviet crimes and abuses are rightly accounted for in history. But in WW2 they became targets of the Nazis and from an historical point of view were allies - allies who destroyed 8 out of 10 German soldiers and broke the back of the Nazi fighting machine.  Soviet Russia endured unbelievable agony on a scale never seen before or since - mainly due to the bravery and resilience of the Russian people.   In this light Soviet flag emblems are appropriate in ww2 sim game in a way Imperial Japanese or Nazi emblems could not be.

 

Again not defending the Germans or Japanese. Do you think German civilians didn't suffer unbelievable atrocities too? How about 2 nuclear bombs on Japanese civilian cities?

 

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IBROX 04 #35 Posted 20 August 2019 - 04:37 PM

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Guys this thread has took a nose dive and is going to be Closed. 

 

 


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DiabolicGambit #36 Posted 20 August 2019 - 06:24 PM

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I personally love this thread.. very good points made...

DiabolicGambit #37 Posted 20 August 2019 - 06:26 PM

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In school They teach you about the 6 million Jews that the Germans killed however usually they fail to hiy upon the conservative estimate 20 million people that the Solviets murdered.. and dont even get me started on chairman mao

Edited by DiabolicGambit, 20 August 2019 - 06:28 PM.


Afro Palestine #38 Posted 20 August 2019 - 06:45 PM

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View PostSightlessRogue0, on 20 August 2019 - 03:52 PM, said:

We do not talk about morality here.

 

Well, yes we do. The use of Axis flags motif in a video game is an ethical / moral matter.   You might be talking about something else.

 

View PostSightlessRogue0, on 20 August 2019 - 03:52 PM, said:

In addition we could also talk about the hell of communism, millions of people living in a gray and cold hell without any hope except to find ... maybe ... a piece of damaged meat of any gram sold at the price of a kidney to the market. Of these millions of children raised in sadness with only one hope for the future: to go west may be a day.

 

Communism should be talked about in the past tense. It ended in Russia 1991.   And the scene you describe - with hyperbole - could be any city in the US during the industrial revolution, or during the Great Depression.  Or any country at one time or another.   Topically it should be noted that today 40 million people in the United States live in poverty.  12 million children do not get enough to eat daily.

 

View PostSightlessRogue0, on 20 August 2019 - 03:52 PM, said:

A lot of parameters here, do not try to re-write the story ... we know it well: The Soviet Union was destined from its first day to go bankrupt at one time or another, all the horrors committed by this regime (and there have been so many that it is impossible to really count them, we will always be well under the account) had only one goal: to push the inevitable to later.

 

What the Soviet Union was destined to do is not at issue here.

 

 

View PostSightlessRogue0, on 20 August 2019 - 03:52 PM, said:

We talk about the flag it seems to me (Besides, I still do not understand your interest in wanting to pass a monster for an angel).

 

I have no idea what you are talking about here, as I've done no such thing.

 

 

 



N333DL3 #39 Posted 20 August 2019 - 06:54 PM

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View PostWEREW0LF 8541, on 17 August 2019 - 01:39 PM, said:

I'm just curious if WOT allows the use of the old Soviet Union flag on Russian tanks and the Imperial Prussian battle flag on German tanks why can't the Imperial Japanese battle flag (rising sun) be used on Japanese tanks?

 

You're not implying that there is a double standard with respect to the flags are you?  For example by not allowing the Japanese battle flag, while at the same time allowing the Hammer & Sickle of the Soviet Union 

Afro Palestine #40 Posted 20 August 2019 - 06:55 PM

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View PostDiabolicGambit, on 20 August 2019 - 06:26 PM, said:

In school They teach you about the 6 million Jews that the Germans killed however usually they fail to hiy upon the conservative estimate 20 million people that the Solviets murdered.. and dont even get me started on chairman mao

 

Probably because victims of Soviet - during WW2, the time period in question - persecution come no where near 20 million.

 

If  you refer to the number of dead in WW2, the number is larger than 20 million, and those deaths are attributable to German aggression.

 

WW2: the time period we are talking about, wherein the Soviets became part of the Allies and heroically and at great cost destroyed most of the Nazi fighting force.  THAT is why we have Soviet flags and not Nazi ones.

 


Edited by Afro Palestine, 20 August 2019 - 06:56 PM.






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