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Siegfried Line Assault broken.


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TransparentBlue #1 Posted 21 August 2019 - 05:57 PM

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So....   Four assault mode maps in a row sucks bad enough already.  

 

Siegfried Line attackers spawn in an open, undefendable field while defenders start in hard cover, where all the decent positions are.  Goodbye all attacking heavies, been nice knowing you.

 

The only way defenders lose in this map is if they're totally incompetent. 

 

Fight me.  Tell me how wrong I am.



sergeant-slow741 #2 Posted 21 August 2019 - 06:33 PM

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View PostTransparentBlue, on 21 August 2019 - 09:57 AM, said:

So....   Four assault mode maps in a row sucks bad enough already.  

 

Siegfried Line attackers spawn in an open, undefendable field while defenders start in hard cover, where all the decent positions are.  Goodbye all attacking heavies, been nice knowing you.

 

The only way defenders lose in this map is if they're totally incompetent. 

 

Fight me.  Tell me how wrong I am.

Arty is the answer...:trollface:


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TransparentBlue #3 Posted 21 August 2019 - 06:38 PM

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View Postsergeant-slow741, on 21 August 2019 - 06:33 PM, said:

Arty is the answer...:trollface:

 

Arty that has a huge advantage when heavies are spotted in an open field?

 

Green won our latest assault with one or two tanks left mostly because our artillery had an average game while theirs both scored 0-0-0. 

 

Assault is already often a simple question of whether the defenders have binoculars and decent scouting or not. 



Tempest fox3 #4 Posted 21 August 2019 - 06:43 PM

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Attackers have to be aggressive from the start but it's entirely possible for them to win.

War is a Democracy and the enemy always gets a vote.

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duc888sps #5 Posted 21 August 2019 - 06:51 PM

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View PostTempest fox3, on 21 August 2019 - 06:43 PM, said:

Attackers have to be aggressive from the start but it's entirely possible for them to win.

 

^^This, if Reds can find a weak side (there's usually one) and take control of one side of the town quickly, job jobbed.

TransparentBlue #6 Posted 21 August 2019 - 06:55 PM

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View PostTempest fox3, on 21 August 2019 - 06:43 PM, said:

Attackers have to be aggressive from the start but it's entirely possible for them to win.

 

If the defenders are incompetent, sure.  

 

Otherwise this is original Overlord Assault all over again.

 

Defenders have the high ground and cover, attackers forced to approach few available choke points fully exposed to fire from any well positioned defenders.  

 

Assuming you get to the one covered choke point (North end of castle wall), you have to crest a steep rise to get through to what?  Why, a bit more uncovered territory, of course!

 

I've seen incompetence enough to know it's possible to win this on attack. How many randoms even think in terms of choke points and cover?  I'm not sure.

 

But attack shouldn't rely on defender incompetence.



Tempest fox3 #7 Posted 21 August 2019 - 07:02 PM

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View PostTransparentBlue, on 21 August 2019 - 06:55 PM, said:

 

If the defenders are incompetent, sure.  

 

Otherwise this is original Overlord Assault all over again.

 

Defenders have the high ground and cover, attackers forced to approach few available choke points fully exposed to fire from any well positioned defenders.  

 

Assuming you get to the one covered choke point (North end of castle wall), you have to crest a steep rise to get through to what?  Why, a bit more uncovered territory, of course!

 

I've seen incompetence enough to know it's possible to win this on attack. How many randoms even think in terms of choke points and cover?  I'm not sure.

 

But attack shouldn't rely on defender incompetence.

 

It doesn't rely on defender incompetence. It relies on attacker competence. There's a difference.

 

If the attackers good Ridgeline fighting tanks they can push left side or middle road. If they don't then they should push right side. 

 

Attackers and defenders can both get into position at the same time. How to carry out the attack depends on what tanks the attackers have.

 

Generally speaking, if the attacks play aggressive they can secure a foothold. Once they've done that it's very hard for the defenders to get them out. 


War is a Democracy and the enemy always gets a vote.

3 MoE's: E-25, M41 Walker Bulldog, E-50, Snakebite, E-75, T32, Tiger 131 - In order obtained

 

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Allegheny64 #8 Posted 21 August 2019 - 08:48 PM

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Frankly, I enjoy the way the spawns are located.   Think about it, the city of Aachen was on the Siegfried line and was one of the most fortified and heavily defended German cities. I wish more assaults were like this.  The historical similarity is a definite plus. 

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Pit Friend #9 Posted 21 August 2019 - 10:20 PM

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That’s one of the few maps where an Assault mode makes sense. The town is intended to be a defensive strongpoint. 

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TheOnlyTrueNoob #10 Posted 21 August 2019 - 10:23 PM

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I've always thought of it the other way round, attacking on that map is easy to win whilst defending is more of a pain to win.

3 Marked Tanks

 


DrHorrible4Life #11 Posted 21 August 2019 - 10:34 PM

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View PostTempest fox3, on 21 August 2019 - 07:02 PM, said:

 

It doesn't rely on defender incompetence. It relies on attacker competence. There's a difference.

 

If the attackers good Ridgeline fighting tanks they can push left side or middle road. If they don't then they should push right side. 

 

Attackers and defenders can both get into position at the same time. How to carry out the attack depends on what tanks the attackers have.

 

Generally speaking, if the attacks play aggressive they can secure a foothold. Once they've done that it's very hard for the defenders to get them out. 

 

The lack of communication in 15v15 favors defense.  Cover, elevation, and clock all favor defenders.

The only way to overcome that is a fast moving, competent offense with map knowledge, and winning the pregame lottery for team composition. 

 

Meanwhile the defending team doesn't even need thumbs and can still win.

 

It is also possible that both teams will be competent (in theory) in which case defense will still win.



TransparentBlue #12 Posted 22 August 2019 - 01:06 AM

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View PostTempest fox3, on 21 August 2019 - 07:02 PM, said:

 

It doesn't rely on defender incompetence. It relies on attacker competence. There's a difference.

 

If the attackers good Ridgeline fighting tanks they can push left side or middle road. If they don't then they should push right side. 

 

Attackers and defenders can both get into position at the same time. How to carry out the attack depends on what tanks the attackers have.

 

Generally speaking, if the attacks play aggressive they can secure a foothold. Once they've done that it's very hard for the defenders to get them out. 

 

Please explain where exactly is the foothold the attackers need to seize? 

 

Every hypothetical situation had a counter-hypothetical, but I promise not to offer one if you tell me what you picture to be the attackers' initial objective.  What's the first step?  Middle road is suicide -- unless again, defender incompetence comes in.  

 

So imagine you're in command of the attacking green team... What foothold do you seize first and how?



Ttone5722 #13 Posted 22 August 2019 - 02:52 AM

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Malinovka assault says hi...





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