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Time to do the math on the 183.


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CerealWave51759 #81 Posted 11 October 2019 - 12:40 PM

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It would be a sad day for me to see the Deathstar nerfed.  I like to play it AND play against it.

 

It's fun to see if you can make one miss, then put the hurt on them while they reload.

 

It's a lot of fun to play while at the same time it has negatives (size, slow reload) that balance it out. 

 

It's unique and brings fun and variety to the game.



scwirpeo #82 Posted 11 October 2019 - 01:58 PM

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View PostGallant Prime, on 10 October 2019 - 05:32 PM, said:

 

I mentioned nothing about frequency, but spoke about attributes.  It's attributes are unique. 

 

Although it ranks 14th out of 449 tanks on wotinfo, I think if we put all the tanks that are essentially very similar together, I think you might find the 183 is not nearly as popular as other tanks.  Nothing in the Deathstar line is like it really.      

 

It's gun isn't that different than Arty. It just has idiot proof pen. It's hull iss functionally the same as 3 other tier tens with less armor. The turret is similar to the French heavys 300 raw good angle on the sides but easy as pie to pen on the roof or front with HEAT.

 

Every individual aspect of it can be found in one place or another. The HESH pen and alpha are the problem. As for it's popularity the tank is already 14th on wot info and it's a favorite of potatoes, who incidentally don't go to wot info so won't appear in their stats. If anything I think you would more likely be surprised at the fact it might be even more popular than wot infos stats indicate. Considering it's already one of the most popular tier tens in the game that's not a good thing.

 

PS. According to wot info it's the 8th most played tank on xbox and the most played tier ten in the game. It's the 18th on PS4 and the second highest tier ten on said list. That is not the kind of battle count an oddity tank gets. That's the kind of battle count a tank in a popular line gets, or a tank that is not balanced and we all know the AT line isn't the headline tank line when  people think of WW2.

 

For reference the tortoise is 42 spots under the 183 when in most lines the tier 9 sits above it's tier ten counterpart, the 4005 is at 217 despite having a good stretch of time to catch up and the pathetic badger is sitting at 548 below even the fv201.

 

Long story short the 183 is a problem, WG however fears the angry hord of man children who will rush to defend it if they do as much as mention a Nerf.


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LiteralComic635 #83 Posted 11 October 2019 - 03:50 PM

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I don't have the 183 yet, and I don't have a problem with them as is. I don't think you have to be an angry man child to not want them to be hit with a Nerf bat after 4+ years grinding to get one. They can wreck you in a given match, but they are also fun and satisfying to wreck. Leave the 183 alone, please WG!

 

ChubbyBuckle06 



scwirpeo #84 Posted 11 October 2019 - 04:13 PM

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View PostLiteralComic635, on 11 October 2019 - 08:50 AM, said:

I don't have the 183 yet, and I don't have a problem with them as is. I don't think you have to be an angry man child to not want them to be hit with a Nerf bat after 4+ years grinding to get one. They can wreck you in a given match, but they are also fun and satisfying to wreck. Leave the 183 alone, please WG!

 

ChubbyBuckle06 

 

Nerfing the HESH pen and adding more ammo would do nothing to it's ability to wreck tanks.


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Black RL #85 Posted 11 October 2019 - 04:23 PM

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The problem with this tank and several others is that they are op considering they can ruin the game of another player but aren't op in the statistics WG uses, this is the case for the Waffle, arty class, autoloaders (not all) and other tanks. They can ruin the fun for someone but they can't carry games with the same consistency, therefore they don't raise flags in WG data.

 

That's also why the community and WG don't agree, they're both right, if people that make decisions at WG played the game they would see the problem.

 

Ruining the game for someone != winning the match


Edited by Black RL, 11 October 2019 - 04:24 PM.

Gotta catch them all! ^^

 

My hateful 4: Food a p2w mechanism, New player experience vs veteran player, Are overpowered premium tanks p2w? and Why World of Tanks can't shake off being perceived as a p2w game. About RNG: RNG affects the outcome of games, here's why. About broken tanks.

 

See what happens to your tank in real time when you use equipment, supplies or crew skills in tanks.gg


Knipsel CrunchU #86 Posted 11 October 2019 - 06:02 PM

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View PostSPCCN, on 08 October 2019 - 09:13 PM, said:

Part of the OP problem is the counter attack conundrum. 

 

You're in a full HP M48Patton. Crap a full HP Deathstar 150m ahead. Boom 1600HP gone...

Now you have +-22 sec (assuming: rammer, vents, BIA, food even) what do you do? Unicum or scrublord you are in trouble. 

 

You have to close the distance and pen 5 times on the move (which many average players cannot do, especially without RBRT). 

 

What's your reload rate on the M48? I think mine is <7sec. So 5 shots is close to 34sec.  If you get to the side you might track and do no damage or low role. Anything bad happens and the DS will reload and finish you off. No problem.

 

The DS had to exhibit 0 skill to knock you out of the game, while you had to grit your teeth and perfectly execute everything the in game tutorial taught you (which I am sure everyone has done and learned so much from ;) )

 

The Deathstar is a joke, it is broken, it is a crutch for laughs, tomatoes, cool guys, and salt farmers.

 

Fix now.

 

Same scenario, Patton rolls around and boom, you hit him in the side and....200 damage wth, he now rolls on you while your being hit by other reds as your firing and his proximity spots you and your dead.  Your reading of the battle, anticipation, aiming (skill), all gone in RNG against a player whose skill can be questioned for flying around a corner.   All these discussions hinge on perspective.  I really don't have a problem with any tank.  They all can be taken down and they all can take you down.   If you don't like one, don't play it.  If one is on the other team that you struggle against, try to avoid or learn as much as possible so you can counter the strengths.  Currently, I am loving the Patton and I would rather see a Deathstar than a lot of other tanks. 

Gallant Prime #87 Posted 17 October 2019 - 02:15 AM

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View Postscwirpeo, on 11 October 2019 - 07:58 AM, said:

 

It's gun isn't that different than Arty. It just has idiot proof pen. It's hull iss functionally the same as 3 other tier tens with less armor. The turret is similar to the French heavys 300 raw good angle on the sides but easy as pie to pen on the roof or front with HEAT.

 

Every individual aspect of it can be found in one place or another. The HESH pen and alpha are the problem. As for it's popularity the tank is already 14th on wot info and it's a favorite of potatoes, who incidentally don't go to wot info so won't appear in their stats. If anything I think you would more likely be surprised at the fact it might be even more popular than wot infos stats indicate. Considering it's already one of the most popular tier tens in the game that's not a good thing.

 

PS. According to wot info it's the 8th most played tank on xbox and the most played tier ten in the game. It's the 18th on PS4 and the second highest tier ten on said list. That is not the kind of battle count an oddity tank gets. That's the kind of battle count a tank in a popular line gets, or a tank that is not balanced and we all know the AT line isn't the headline tank line when  people think of WW2.

 

For reference the tortoise is 42 spots under the 183 when in most lines the tier 9 sits above it's tier ten counterpart, the 4005 is at 217 despite having a good stretch of time to catch up and the pathetic badger is sitting at 548 below even the fv201.

 

Long story short the 183 is a problem, WG however fears the angry hord of man children who will rush to defend it if they do as much as mention a Nerf.

 

You do realize that line is pretty much meaningless right?  Just about every aspect of every tank can be found in one place or another.  That is like saying every tank is made of pixels.  What is worse is that you are essentially arguing against yourself--that these tanks are like other tanks already in the game--that they are not different from other tanks in the game.  If they are so much already like other tanks in the game, then there shouldn't be any concern, because they are just like the other tanks in the game--in one attribute or another.  

 

But your argument really is that the deathstar & 4005 are out of the norm--that their pen and alpha are too harsh.  I agree they are out of the norm and that is what makes them exotic.  And, if it so happens, I am ok with a green bean occasionally nuking your purple butt back to the garage to boot.  

 

Btw--I pulled my data from the last 30 days of wotinfo.  It is likely to fluctuate somewhat over such a short period.  But I have periodically looked at the info whenever one of these threads come up.  Funny thing is there are plenty of purples that play these tanks and a cursory look shows purples play these tanks a lot.  Man-children indeed...


 


AskingCupid78 #88 Posted 17 October 2019 - 05:05 AM

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View PostBlack RL, on 11 October 2019 - 04:23 PM, said:

The problem with this tank and several others is that they are op considering they can ruin the game of another player but aren't op in the statistics WG uses, this is the case for the Waffle, arty class, autoloaders (not all) and other tanks. They can ruin the fun for someone but they can't carry games with the same consistency, therefore they don't raise flags in WG data.

 

That's also why the community and WG don't agree, they're both right, if people that make decisions at WG played the game they would see the problem.

 

Ruining the game for someone != winning the match

 

I think we have to realize that some tanks and classes are not Op but BROKEN, and i do understand that some players like to onseshot, clip out, or just click on someone, many of these tanks or classes are the favorites of some not so good players because it makes them feel good that they are actually managing to at least do something so they feel like the are contributing to an eventual win, it is also these players that influences the allmighty spreadsheet, thats why we see French, Japanese,  Chinese tanks and maybe a couple of others getting nerfed or not buffed because they are difficult to do well in and are for that reason mostly played by good players and avoided by the "numpties", so on the spreadsheet it looks ok, and Wg have stated that they think tanks like the Abomination are ok, so they wont nerf the favorite crutches of the "numpties".

Der Nachtgieger #89 Posted 17 October 2019 - 09:00 AM

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I'd rather see some nerfs to conqs or objects. The obscure amounts of bounces on them is crazy.

scwirpeo #90 Posted 17 October 2019 - 11:07 AM

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View PostGallant Prime, on 16 October 2019 - 07:15 PM, said:

 

You do realize that line is pretty much meaningless right?  Just about every aspect of every tank can be found in one place or another.  That is like saying every tank is made of pixels.  What is worse is that you are essentially arguing against yourself--that these tanks are like other tanks already in the game--that they are not different from other tanks in the game.  If they are so much already like other tanks in the game, then there shouldn't be any concern, because they are just like the other tanks in the game--in one attribute or another.  

 

But your argument really is that the deathstar & 4005 are out of the norm--that their pen and alpha are too harsh.  I agree they are out of the norm and that is what makes them exotic.  And, if it so happens, I am ok with a green bean occasionally nuking your purple butt back to the garage to boot.  

 

Btw--I pulled my data from the last 30 days of wotinfo.  It is likely to fluctuate somewhat over such a short period.  But I have periodically looked at the info whenever one of these threads come up.  Funny thing is there are plenty of purples that play these tanks and a cursory look shows purples play these tanks a lot.  Man-children indeed...

 

Why would unis not use crutches? All the pub tatos are using them. It's not their job to balance the game it's CBs. I don't blame people for crutching it up in the 183 it's in the game, I blame CB for being cowards and not nerfing tanks that deserve it and instead going after middling or straight crap tier tanks.

 

Only a handful of us got up in arms over the 30B but I guarantee if they nerf the 183 you and 600 of your fellow crutch defenders will be posting 6-7 threads a day about how unfair it is that your tanks got actual balance for once. That's what WG is afraid of doing again.

 

 

I fail to see how I'm arguing against myself. The tank has traits any number of other tanks have and therefore is not unique in it's platform ergo the way it plays. What is broken about the tank is the HESH, that's not a gameplay mechanic it's bad balance. We have plenty of rear mounted turrets, we have loads of TDs with big alpha, we have an absolute abundance of tanks that rely on turret armor, we have plenty of guns with over powered pen and splash radius, and we have a more than adequate number of 215bs in the game. Something special and different in tier ten looks like the Italian autoloader or the STRV-103B not another idiot proof TD but this time with one shot memes.

 

From the way you wrote your post it looks like the cookie cutter response of a salty man child who is mortified at the idea of losing their meme crutch. So yes you are probably the kind of man child who would go cry up a storm if you lost your unbalanced toy. The exact reason CB won't touch the 183. Remember I won't blame you for using it, but I will blame you for defending it and pretending it's not a problem when you very well know it is.


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Gallant Prime #91 Posted 18 October 2019 - 02:01 AM

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View Postscwirpeo, on 17 October 2019 - 05:07 AM, said:

 

Why would unis not use crutches? All the pub tatos are using them. It's not their job to balance the game it's CBs. I don't blame people for crutching it up in the 183 it's in the game, I blame CB for being cowards and not nerfing tanks that deserve it and instead going after middling or straight crap tier tanks.

 

Only a handful of us got up in arms over the 30B but I guarantee if they nerf the 183 you and 600 of your fellow crutch defenders will be posting 6-7 threads a day about how unfair it is that your tanks got actual balance for once. That's what WG is afraid of doing again.

 

 

I fail to see how I'm arguing against myself. The tank has traits any number of other tanks have and therefore is not unique in it's platform ergo the way it plays. What is broken about the tank is the HESH, that's not a gameplay mechanic it's bad balance. We have plenty of rear mounted turrets, we have loads of TDs with big alpha, we have an absolute abundance of tanks that rely on turret armor, we have plenty of guns with over powered pen and splash radius, and we have a more than adequate number of 215bs in the game. Something special and different in tier ten looks like the Italian autoloader or the STRV-103B not another idiot proof TD but this time with one shot memes.

 

From the way you wrote your post it looks like the cookie cutter response of a salty man child who is mortified at the idea of losing their meme crutch. So yes you are probably the kind of man child who would go cry up a storm if you lost your unbalanced toy. The exact reason CB won't touch the 183. Remember I won't blame you for using it, but I will blame you for defending it and pretending it's not a problem when you very well know it is.

 

Oh sure...

 

I don't make memes, so I don't need a meme crutch.  And I haven't even played the deathstar in a year.  If you had bothered to pay attention, I had actually made some suggestions for consideration in testing to see how it would affect things.  It is called discussion but you are acting the unhinged fool at this point.  

 

You obviously don't see and can't follow.  You attempt to limit the criteria of exotic just to serve your point of view.  However, you still fail because you don't understand a very simple underlying principle. 

 

The Italian and the Swede do have mechanics that are not common, but using your logic the Italian is just another medium with an autoloader variant and the Swede is just another fixed case TD with poor acceleration--lots of tanks have similar attributes.  See how easy that is?

 

The Deathstar and 4005 are exotic in design, not because of any one particular mechanic or attribute but because of their combination of attributes, which is not otherwise similarly and commonly shared in one vehicle so as to be distinguishable.  If it were not so, you would not be here.  Instead of addressing this, you keep pursuing your non sequitur.  

 

And it really doesn't matter what I say, whether these tanks are exotic or not, because here is the thing...

 

Spoiler

 

 

 

 


 


Waka-Waka-Waka-W #92 Posted 18 October 2019 - 03:46 PM

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Playing too many tier 9-10 tanks for chisel an yes against deathstar an getting 1 or 2 shoot , yes it pisses me off . NO they don't need debuff because I know I have put my barrel in the exhaust of many
a deathstar an fired many a hotload in thier exhaust pipe while they were reloading
  It was especially fun doing it while they had no protection.
So keep saying this tank needs debuff, I say stop running in front them sideways .
Look at the player list , watch mini map,  watch when they fire an play accordingly .
Or are you a player that sits 15 meters in front of an arty that has'nt fired yet an has you spot on an goes I can kill him in 2-3 shots  an he's not allowed  to shot me because that's unfair.




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