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My Thoughts on Mercenaries and Balance and how to fix it

Mercs Balance Stubs Smoothman Thoughts Critique

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IRON LORD MINK #1 Posted 19 October 2019 - 08:23 PM

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Hi Everyone I thought Since I've been away from the Forum for a While (not like I was a Frequent Poster anyway) But I thought Today I will put together Some of my thoughts on the Merc tanks and Some Ideas of How the Gameplay of Some of these tanks Could be improved. Granted a Lot of the Later Vehicles introduced Seem to be ok but a lot of the initial Releases seem to really suffer with poor performance and low competitiveness in their respective tiers.

 

How I feel about Mercs?

To be honest when I first heard the Mercs were coming to the game an I saw the initial Screenshots of the Slapjack I thought a number of thing mainly (Why?) Seeing that thick T29 Turret on a Chassis of a Tank that in no way could support its weight was perplexing to me.

 

It was only after I saw the potential of the Merc Tanks (Unlimited Opportunities to add additional content) and easy way to Implement vehicles Like the M36B and the Sherman (w90) and of Course tanks like the Jammer (T55 With Hellcat Turret used in several Yugoslavian Conflicts In the 90s to early 2000s) That I realised the potential not only for Content which otherwise wouldn't really fit in the game but also Fan Content which could add a really Cool Dynamic to the game.

 

Overall thoughts some pretty cool content implemented in an interesting way. Bar from the Lack of bonuses and the Purchasable Elements which are now redundant anyway since you can just outright spend £70 on Free XP and Get a Tier 10 these day but whatever.  I found the

Mercs to be a pretty cool concept.

 

However……..

One major issue I've found more so than any other element of the Mercenaries Tree is Balance. To me it seems very little thought was put into the Stats of many of the Merc tanks it seems that the Developers Just used a Programme to take modules of random vehicles and automatically generate the Stats making vehicles that are if not Sub Par are borderline unplayable.

 

The following is a list of Vehicles which I feel should be Evaluated to Some Extent because they don't seem to really fit with the Dynamics of the Game.

 

Stubbs (Tier 5 Merc Light) 

Lawgiver (Tier 4 Merc Light) 

Smooth man ( Tier 5 Merc Medium)

Bucket (Tier 4 Merc Light) 

Bulwark (Tier 5 Merc Heavy) 

Hard case (Tier 9 Merc Heavy)

Tusk (Tier 10 Merc Light )

Jammer (Tier 7 Merc Medium)

Slapjack (Tier 7 Merc Heavy) 

Brick (Tier 8 Premium Heavy) 

 

Of the above List to be honest most of the above are pretty fine but do need minor adjustments.

 

For Example after the buff to the Brick I have to Say its now pretty competitive but does need a Minor Gun depression Buff from say 5.2 Degrees to Like 7 Degrees because realistically for a 100mm gun to be in an IS-6 Turret with Plenty of Clearance it just makes sense for it to have more gun depression especially since the IS-6 has a 122mm (A gun with a Far bigger breach) and has 6 Degrees which is more than playable. 5,2 on the Other hand on a pretty tall vehicle is rather irritating as you often fail to be able to aim at weak spots because depression is so poor ( But If anything this is just an honourable mention anyway because previous buffs did fix most issues) 

 

Same kind of goes for the Bulwark (Which again needs a gun depression buff) 6 degrees in a large turret with a 40mm Gun (get real) if this was a realistic vehicle if would have like 12 degrees (although 8 would be fine for WoT) 

 

The Tusk is mostly fine other than the Horrendous dispersion on Turret Rotation at 8.60m Not even the KV2 is that bad which is a Tier 6 with Practically the same gun at a tier where its more competitive which as a Turret Rotation dispersion at 1.54m  so Maybe this needs to be looked at maybe something like 4.30m Turret rotation dispersion on the Tusk would be a good improvement since it otherwise isn't op and considering the Grind for the tank it seems kind of pointless when as a Scout its mediocre and as a damage dealer well with that kind of Dispersion your not able to snap shells on to target reliably when its needed often even trying to peek a boom leaves you with 50% HP Before you even begin. So at the moment its a tank without a real purpose other than scouting which again it isn't bad at but their are far better vehicles at Tier 10 and since you on average gonna hit a Tier 10 for between 280 - 330 Alpha with a 15 Second Reload this would be a nice quality of life change for the people who do play the Tusk.

 

The Slapjack and The Jammer both have a similar problem which is poor penetration for Tier 7s this isn't likely going to be an issue if +1 -1 becomes permanent but in the case of the Jammer 128 Ap  and 177 Apcr pen on a Tier 7 Med when everything else has 140 / 190 on average is highly irritating when it struggles in its own tier to pen other Tier 7s never mind 8s and 9s a Simple Solution would be to buff the pen to 144ap and 196 apcr like the T23e3 since it is using the 76mm M1A2 and at the same time it wouldn't be a bad idea to Carry this across all tanks using the M1A2 for the sake of consistency and the fact it isn't a really big buff in the first place.

 

The Slapjack on the other hand pretty much faces the same problem since you often need to fight Tier 8s Frontally as a Heavy tank 194 APCR pen and 144 AP isn't gonna really cut it when your Facing IS3s Obj 252Us ect. when all of your Rivals in your tier average 175 AP and like 240 with APCR easy Solution give it 169Ap and 227 Apcr like Tiger 131 (It needs something back when its DPM was Nerfed after initial release) 

 

The Bucket is pretty much fine maybe a minor View Range buff to 350m to it can at least meet its Scout requirements would be good 

 

The Lawgiver and Stubbs however are in need of Major reworking especially as they both Qualify as the worst lights in their tiers.

The Lawgiver Slow (poor armour) Terrible firepower and view range I struggle to see the purpose of this vehicle. Its not a Scout because its too slow and view range is poor. it isn't an assault tank because the Armour is poor. its not a damage dealer because well a 75mm Low Velocity howitzer with 43 AP and 87 Heat pen Is practically useless unless fighting some tier 4s and Tier 3s the HE isn't much better with 175 Alpha and 38pen Ideally the only fix to this thing is either 

1 Move it down to Tier 3 where it might get some use

or

2 Keep the Stats where they are Remove the AP because its useless and give it the M8 Treatment 

 buff the Heat so it has 115mm Pen 200 Alpha 

Buff the HE to Like 50 pen and 350 Alpha and half the Rate of Fire from 13.95 down to 7 to take into account the increased Alpha 

or give it two types of Heat the Current Heat becomes the Stock round at 87mm of Pen 

Premium Heat is like 115m

and HE is Like 300 Alpha with like 45mm of Pen 

 

At least that way the thing becomes viable their was  reason the L24 75mm was removed from both the 2001 D and Panzer 3 at Tier 4

 

 

The Stubs basically could Equally use some love especially after the Rate of Fire nerf which occurred when the tank was already barely playable. Realistically if the Stubs Rate of Fire is going to remain as is to make it actually competitive 

all I would do is Make the Current Premium AP Standard ammo at 92mm of Pen introduce a new premium AP round with say 110mm of Pen and Leave the HE relatively unchanged maybe a minor buff to Alpha from 280 to 320 just to increase its versatility.

 

Or Just leave it as is and buff the Rate of fire to something like 12 Rounds per minute so its slightly better than the Alecto this wont make much of a Change  since the Current HE only Deals an average of 60 Damage (Although you would be lucky to do more than 10 against most targets)  and the AP is so low in Pen that only a Few Targets are viable to use it against. Or Just give it something like 9 Rounds per minute which is still worse than the Alecto's rate of fire but I guess more balanced since the Stubbs has a Turret.

 

From What I've Seen the Hard case is fine it just needs a DPM Buff as 6.45 Rounds per min is pretty bad considering the Pen and the Alpha for a Tier 9 heavy if it was to match the T54 as a Medium with something like 7.69 Rounds per min plus it would be fine.

 

The Smooth man is probably the biggest amalgamation of mediocrity with some of the Worst View Range DPM and Gun handling on a Tier 5 Medium honestly how would I fix this. Immediately give it 350m view range in stead of 330m as even though its using the M4s Stock Turret as a fully Upgraded vehicle by Default it shouldn't be that bad. I would then buff the Rate of Fire to 12 Rounds per min still bad considering the Alpha but an improvement and I would likely also buff the aim time to 2.4 Seconds base. It would still be medicore but it would be an improvement making it a lot more competitive as a tier 5 medium not op but it would be closer to Centre in terms of performace. which as a Tank that can be technically purchased for gold or earned via Contracts would at least make it more of a Reward. 
 

And Speaking of the 76mm S54 I would honestly buff it on  Both the T-34 and T-34FG because their is no reason is should be that bad. But that's just my opinion .

 

 

Honestly congrats if you read through all of this It probably wasn't the nicest thing to read but please leave you suggestions below of what you would change or what you would like to see below. 

Panzer Vor

 

 

 

 



sergeant-slow741 #2 Posted 19 October 2019 - 08:50 PM

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+1

Edited by sergeant-slow741, 19 October 2019 - 08:50 PM.

End of passion play, crumbling away I'm your source of self destruction. Veins that pump with fear,sucking darkest clear leading on your death's destruction. Taste me you will see more as you need dedicated to how im killing you.

supermuis68 #3 Posted 19 October 2019 - 09:23 PM

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:facepalm:

YouMadBro413 #4 Posted 19 October 2019 - 10:02 PM

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Good read, what do you think about the Sharpshooter and Machine?s

matematicalone #5 Posted 20 October 2019 - 08:51 AM

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Nice, but what's with words bro? So many..



IRON LORD MINK #6 Posted 20 October 2019 - 05:02 PM

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View PostYouMadBro413, on 19 October 2019 - 10:02 PM, said:

Good read, what do you think about the Sharpshooter and Machine?s

 

The Machine and Sharpshooter seem to be pretty good in my Experience 

The Sharpshooter has Good DPM Decent Pen and Gun Handling the turret armour is Top Tier being a Chieftain Turret the only negative I can think of is Hull Traverse and that's about it.

The Machine on the other hand is pretty much the Same but with a Great Autoloader with a maximum possible reload of Like 22 Seconds which for 1280 Burst damage is pretty incredible the Mobility is Awesome and the Turret Armour is also good being another Chieftain Turret the Upper Hull is Ok as well if not angled. The Pen is pretty bad but given other Charteris tics its balanced as a really potent shoot and Scoot Heavy. 



IRON LORD MINK #7 Posted 20 October 2019 - 05:03 PM

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View Postmatematicalone, on 20 October 2019 - 08:51 AM, said:

Nice, but what's with words bro? So many

Sorry I Like Writing TBH was never good at summarising.

XD

 



ThermalStone #8 Posted 22 October 2019 - 06:10 AM

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I've been playing the Bucket today with the +/-1 and it's beastly when it doesn't have to fight 6s (or 5s every damn game).  It's not really meant to be a scout though.  It needs a mobility buff (tighten up the turning radius), and a pen buff.

 

Smoothman is perhaps the worst tank in the game above tier 4.  The problem is that it has the 76mm, the noob trap gun.  Just give it the 57mm that us unicums prefer on the T-34, A-43 and other Russian mid tier tanks when available.  


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SirDerp-a-lot #9 Posted 22 October 2019 - 11:42 AM

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With the exception of the Absolution and the Machine, Mercenary tanks seem to be pretty balanced overall. Some are good, some are bad, but that's true for any nation.

 

I like the Jammer the way it is. Of course penetration is low, but with all its other great features it would very quickly became overpowered with a better penetration.



IRON LORD MINK #10 Posted 25 October 2019 - 01:23 PM

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View PostSirDerp-a-lot, on 22 October 2019 - 11:42 AM, said:

With the exception of the Absolution and the Machine, Mercenary tanks seem to be pretty balanced overall. Some are good, some are bad, but that's true for any nation.

 

I like the Jammer the way it is. Of course penetration is low, but with all its other great features it would very quickly became overpowered with a better penetration.

 

Yeah he Jammer is Pretty good the way it is. 

But if it were to get a minor pen Buff it still wouldn't be op all that would happen is it would be on Par with other Tier 7 Mediums in terms of Pen making it far more versatile when dealing with Tier 8s and 9s. In those situations where your forced to brawl on those less open maps.

 

Sure on a Map Like Red shire , Overlord , Prokrovoka and Malinovka the Pen is good enough because you have the space to manuver to the sides of Tanks where you can make the most of Current values but say in an instance where you are forced to brawl against a Tiger 2 (128ap) isn't going to cut it (177APCR) is just about able to pen the lower Plate.

 

The Pen buff is more a Quality of life improvement to ensure that its better able to Damage against +1 and +2 Tier Vehicles 

But like I Said it probably wouldn't be nessesary if +1 -1 matchmaking becomes permanently implemented.

 

Also yeah the Absaloution is Op 

Basically a V/IV at tier 6 with a Better Gun and a Shed Load of additional Armour with near enough the same mobility 

RIP if your fighting that in a Tier 4 or a Pref MM Tier 5 .

 

 


Edited by IRON LORD MINK, 25 October 2019 - 11:22 PM.


IRON LORD MINK #11 Posted 25 October 2019 - 01:24 PM

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View Postsupermuis68, on 19 October 2019 - 09:23 PM, said:

:facepalm:

 

Why Facepalm?

Please Leave your Suggestions below.

I would like your Criticism.



IRON LORD MINK #12 Posted 25 October 2019 - 01:28 PM

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View PostThermalStone, on 22 October 2019 - 06:10 AM, said:

I've been playing the Bucket today with the +/-1 and it's beastly when it doesn't have to fight 6s (or 5s every damn game).  It's not really meant to be a scout though.  It needs a mobility buff (tighten up the turning radius), and a pen buff.

 

Smoothman is perhaps the worst tank in the game above tier 4.  The problem is that it has the 76mm, the noob trap gun.  Just give it the 57mm that us unicums prefer on the T-34, A-43 and other Russian mid tier tanks when available.  

Yeah the Bucket under Plus 1 -1 is Pretty much fine the pen is good enough to Damage tier 5s with Flanking shots and 250 Burst damage is pretty good. You are right a Hull Traverse buff would be nice and a Pen Buff to make it more competitive would be nice.

 

But I would like it to have a Small VR buff so it can Perform better along side its Scout Counter Parts.

 

Still not as Bad as the M5 Stuart 

That thing with 78 APCR pen is hopeless.

I would really Love the US M5 gets a pretty big pen buff 

like 78 AP and 108 APCR would at least be playable 



IRON LORD MINK #13 Posted 25 October 2019 - 01:30 PM

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View PostThermalStone, on 22 October 2019 - 06:10 AM, said:

I've been playing the Bucket today with the +/-1 and it's beastly when it doesn't have to fight 6s (or 5s every damn game).  It's not really meant to be a scout though.  It needs a mobility buff (tighten up the turning radius), and a pen buff.

 

Smoothman is perhaps the worst tank in the game above tier 4.  The problem is that it has the 76mm, the noob trap gun.  Just give it the 57mm that us unicums prefer on the T-34, A-43 and other Russian mid tier tanks when available.  

 

Yeah the Smoothman is Really Bad

I would Rather they buff the 76mm though instead of adding the 57mm for additional Variety 

Though the 57mm is one of the Best guns at tier 5/6



IRON LORD MINK #14 Posted 25 October 2019 - 01:31 PM

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View Postsergeant-slow741, on 19 October 2019 - 08:50 PM, said:

+1

 

Thx 

 

Let me know if you would change anything or do anything different.



VoluptaBox #15 Posted 25 October 2019 - 01:52 PM

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While doing this, I would also take a look at the way the contracts are set up. Was playing with a friend yesterday trying to get whatever that 'get 12 kills in a platoon' medal is and it instantly struck me as such a dumb idea. Not to mention what the Machine and Chisel contracts did to tier 8-10 gameplay xD

SirDerp-a-lot #16 Posted 25 October 2019 - 03:44 PM

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View PostIRON LORD MINK, on 25 October 2019 - 02:23 PM, said:

Yeah he Jammer is Pretty good the way it is. 

But if it were to get a minor pen Buff it still wouldn't be op all that would happen is it would be on Par with other Tier 7 Mediums in terms of Pen making it far more versatile when dealing with Tier 8s and 9s. In those situations where your forced to brawl on those less open maps.

 

That's my point, it's better than other tier VII mediums in other regards, so the weak gun is there to balance it.

 

View PostIRON LORD MINK, on 25 October 2019 - 02:23 PM, said:

Also yeah the Absaloution is Op 

Basically a V/IV at tier 7 with a Better Gun and a Shed Load of additional Armour with near enough the same mobility 

RIP if your fighting that in a Tier 4 or a Pref MM Tier 5 .

 

Actually killing V/IVs is the only thing the Absolution has going for it. :justwait:



IRON LORD MINK #17 Posted 25 October 2019 - 11:33 PM

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View PostVoluptaBox, on 25 October 2019 - 01:52 PM, said:

While doing this, I would also take a look at the way the contracts are set up. Was playing with a friend yesterday trying to get whatever that 'get 12 kills in a platoon' medal is and it instantly struck me as such a dumb idea. Not to mention what the Machine and Chisel contracts did to tier 8-10 gameplay xD

 

With Contracts my View has always been they need to be somewhat of a Challenge in order to make it difficult to Get the Higher Tier Vehicles but at the Same time the effort expended has to give the player a Decent Reward. For instance a Balanced Tank with some Unique Qualities.

 

So when it comes to the Contracts I would prefer they keep the Difficult Challenges of Getting X number of High Calibres or Spotting or whatever because in the end even a mediocre player can achieve this.

 

But the Whole Gold Purchasing / Skipping thing I am pretty much fully against because its another way for Players with Big wallets to get a Tier 10 with minimum effort. Which defeats the Purpose of Mercs being a "Reward".

 

And you are right the whole limited Vehicles For Contract thing has messed up MM a lot in the Higher tiers though it isn't as bad as it was since WG have Diversified vehicle Requirements after all we don't want another Sharpshooter Situation where by only French and US Lights Could be used so you ended up with battles with 7 Lights aside mostly being T49s ,  Batchat 12ts , AMX 1390s / 13105s and well the Bulldog and Sheridan.

 

So Long as Keep Class and Nation Requirements Somewhat Varied MM should be okay so I'm not that worried

The Main intention of this Post was to draw attention to the Mediocre and Poor Performance of Many Merc tanks that makes them pointless Grinding in the first place.

 

So in my View I would Keep the Current Stages as they are and Just remove Gold Skipping.

Also I am pretty sure none of the Contracts Require a Crucial Contribution medal (12kills + in Platoon) its mostly based on individual performance



VoluptaBox #18 Posted 28 October 2019 - 11:04 AM

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View PostIRON LORD MINK, on 26 October 2019 - 01:33 AM, said:

Also I am pretty sure none of the Contracts Require a Crucial Contribution medal (12kills + in Platoon) its mostly based on individual performance

 

I'll double check when I get home, but that's what he said. I don't know the requirements for a lot of tanks, so I saw no reason to assume he might be wrong (I think it was the RamRod he was grinding, but not too sure). Will let ya know.







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