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Penetration RNG test

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ooo NO ONE ooo #1 Posted 21 October 2019 - 07:10 AM

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Maybe I've just misunderstood the "rules" so help me out please.

My understanding of a red reticle is that it is a guaranteed pen. Is this correct?

Because if it is, the ENTIRE tank is red and I hit it, why do I bounce?

Thank for your help.


 

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The Whammer 76 #2 Posted 21 October 2019 - 07:21 AM

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Red just means the best chance of pen, RNG still plays a part.
That is my understanding anyway.

M4ntiX #3 Posted 21 October 2019 - 07:21 AM

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View Postooo NO ONE ooo, on 21 October 2019 - 07:10 AM, said:

Maybe I've just misunderstood the "rules" so help me out please.

My understanding of a red reticle is that it is a guaranteed pen. Is this correct?

Because if it is, the ENTIRE tank is red and I hit it, why do I bounce?

Thank for your help.

 

It's not that simple. They haven't adjusted the way the crosshairs work. With stupid "loaded dice" event, red means your penetration is enough to go through that thickness of armor when facing it at 90 degrees (flat), but it does not account for angling or spaced armor. Which means you either go through every time or don't go through at all, since there is no deviation on base pen value. Unless you know you should go through, it's a guessing game. Probably the reason behind everyone spamming gold.


Edited by M4ntiX, 21 October 2019 - 04:04 PM.

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HollowPoint_808 #4 Posted 21 October 2019 - 07:52 AM

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View PostM4ntiX, on 21 October 2019 - 03:21 PM, said:

 

It's not that simple. They haven't adjusted the way the crosshairs work. With stupid "loaded dice" event, red means your penetration is enough to go through that thickness of armor when facing it at 90 degrees (flat), but it does not account for angling or spaced armor. Which means you either go through every time or don't go through at all, since there is no deviation on base pen value. Unless you know you should go through, it's a guessing game. Probably the reason behind everyone spamming gold.

 

Thanks for clarity to this , very informative. 
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ooo NO ONE ooo #5 Posted 21 October 2019 - 08:04 AM

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View PostM4ntiX, on 21 October 2019 - 07:21 AM, said:

 

It's not that simple. They haven't adjusted the way the crosshairs work. With stupid "loaded dice" event, red means your penetration is enough to go through that thickness of armor when facing it at 90 degrees (flat), but it does not account for angling or spaced armor. Which means you either go through every time or don't go through at all, since there is no deviation on base pen value. Unless you know you should go through, it's a guessing game. Probably the reason behind everyone spamming gold.

 

Thanks Mantix,

So red reticle pretty much means the same as during non test.


 

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M4ntiX #6 Posted 21 October 2019 - 08:27 AM

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View Postooo NO ONE ooo, on 21 October 2019 - 08:04 AM, said:

 

Thanks Mantix,

So red reticle pretty much means the same as during non test.

 

Correct. Main difference is "chance of penetration" being replaced with a "yes/no" since there is no +/-25% deviation on base pen value that would offset the effective armor thickness that changes with angling.

* MY TEAM IS ALWAYS MADE BY MONGOL TRISOMIC STYLE PLAY LIKE NO BRAIN! *

* I live in reality and let me tell you, there is no one here. * For some reason you feel the need to troll stink bomb a statement of fact. *

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Rubbelito #7 Posted 21 October 2019 - 08:38 AM

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Also, spaced armor will still falsely indicate red.

Edited by Rubbelito, 21 October 2019 - 08:39 AM.


I44I Warlock #8 Posted 21 October 2019 - 10:15 AM

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Never rely on the reticle, trust your knowledge. Learn where you can pen a tank and the weakspots. 

It helps a lot if you know the enemy armor value amd your pen so you can calculate in your head if you have a chance to pen when the enemy tank is angled. 


 

                             

 

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ooo NO ONE ooo #9 Posted 21 October 2019 - 10:36 AM

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View PostI44I Warlock, on 21 October 2019 - 10:15 AM, said:

Never rely on the reticle, trust your knowledge. Learn where you can pen a tank and the weakspots. 

It helps a lot if you know the enemy armor value amd your pen so you can calculate in your head if you have a chance to pen when the enemy tank is angled. 

 

Good advice Warlock. Sadly at my age, I'm lucky if I remember my wife's name! :teethhappy:

 

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pilotguy79 #10 Posted 21 October 2019 - 10:36 AM

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During the loaded dice event red dies mean pen. I’ve bounced [edited]I’d never thought would happen all night. Bounced my e4 standard round of the back of a Sheridan. I thought over match rules applied.  

It’s a terrible reticle I think , with rng (spread) so high. You could aim for the right spot, but if rng decides “not today” then it will bounce.  I wish we could change it to a simple red dot etc.

 

I believe more more people were complaining about shot dispersion rng and not pen rng. 



JelliedPenny08 #11 Posted 21 October 2019 - 11:49 AM

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The reticle is only a quick and dirty guide. It is a static model like walking up to the armour model in the garage, laying your hand on it and saying this is 25mm thick. It doesn't register whether there is another panel behind that is 250mm thick, or whether the angle you are shooting from makes it effectively thicker, likely to bounce or to also hit something else. 

 

For low tiers with uncomplicated boxy armour, it's great. As soon as armour gets angled, layered and spaced or a complicated patchwork then it becomes incredibly misleading. It can be really useful for trying to zoom in on something you know is a weak spot so you get a clear indication your sights are on it though. 



PrimalSeal1965 #12 Posted 21 October 2019 - 11:50 AM

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Good Golly this is complicated! What's funny and I don't understand why or how, Let's say you're in a pretty decently armored tank and it has a Very accurate gun does good damages per minute. Excellent turret armor and when things are working correctly you hull down. 

 

Your opponent is in a tank with basically no armor, has a crappy gun. Let's say you're at point blank range, basically sitting on top of each other. You fire at the weak spot, bounce or miss entirely or better your shell just passes right through. He fires takes nearly all your hit points and by the way hits you in one of the best armored spots of your tank, you fire again and bounce, miss, pass through or cause no damages. 

 

Or your opponent fires through rocks, dirt, house, hillside really no clear firing line...Yet you die...He runs off and never saw any damages from your gun..



ozrage #13 Posted 21 October 2019 - 11:51 AM

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Also, the dispersion RNG isn't changed so it's still rolling the dice if you will hit where one intended anyway. Or am I wrong about that?

Rubbelito #14 Posted 21 October 2019 - 11:56 AM

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View Postozrage, on 21 October 2019 - 01:51 PM, said:

Also, the dispersion RNG isn't changed so it's still rolling the dice if you will hit where one intended anyway. Or am I wrong about that?

 

There's no laser accuracy, no.

redshadowrider #15 Posted 21 October 2019 - 12:03 PM

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View Postozrage, on 21 October 2019 - 05:51 AM, said:

Also, the dispersion RNG isn't changed so it's still rolling the dice if you will hit where one intended anyway. Or am I wrong about that?

 

This is the issue and, I believe, the root of the problem.  It doesn't matter what color the reticle is if the shell has only a small chance of hitting the spot.  So that means that it doesn't matter where you aim, it's where the shell ends up.  And that is anyone's guess.
I'm just saying.....

TocFanKe4 #16 Posted 21 October 2019 - 02:59 PM

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View PostRubbelito, on 21 October 2019 - 03:38 AM, said:

Also, spaced armor will still falsely indicate red.

 

This is probably what OP is seeing.  Spaced armor only shows the chance of the round to penetrate the first plate, not any armor underneath.  If your round has 200 mm pen, and the red tank has a 20 mm plate over 250 mm of armor, it will show a red reticle. Your round has plenty of pen to go through the 20 mm plate, but will still bounce due to the 250 mm armor behind it.   

 

My dislike of +/- 1 pales in comparison to my hatred of Loaded Dice.


Teffisk #17 Posted 21 October 2019 - 03:16 PM

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View PostM4ntiX, on 21 October 2019 - 07:21 AM, said:

 

It's not that simple. They haven't adjusted the way the crosshairs work. With stupid "loaded dice" event, red means your penetration is enough to go through that thickness of armor when facing it at 90 degrees (flat), but it does not account for angling or spaced armor. Which means you either go through every time or don't go through at all, since there is no deviation on base pen value. Unless you know you should go through, it's a guessing game. Probably the reason behind everyone spamming gold.

That's not true. The reticle does take into account angling. It does not default to 90 degrees. However, as other have mentioned, extremely angles, spaced armor, modules, and accuracy RNG all play a role in bouncing off red armor. 



ozrage #18 Posted 21 October 2019 - 03:34 PM

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View PostRubbelito, on 21 October 2019 - 11:56 AM, said:

 

There's no laser accuracy, no.

 

I figured, I don't expect shells to behave like a laser, IE a straight line. But how it is now, fully aimed or snapshot doesn't seem to matter that much. Hitting cupolas or weakspots are really dicy. 

BYTORtheSn0wd0g #19 Posted 21 October 2019 - 03:36 PM

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View PostRubbelito, on 21 October 2019 - 06:56 AM, said:

 

There's no laser accuracy, no.

 

Exception to this --->  US SEXTON I ARTY.  :trollface:

M4ntiX #20 Posted 21 October 2019 - 04:03 PM

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View PostTeffisk, on 21 October 2019 - 03:16 PM, said:

That's not true. The reticle does take into account angling. It does not default to 90 degrees. However, as other have mentioned, extremely angles, spaced armor, modules, and accuracy RNG all play a role in bouncing off red armor. 

 

I stand corrected. Angle is considered. Well spotted. I have now edited my original post. :great:


* MY TEAM IS ALWAYS MADE BY MONGOL TRISOMIC STYLE PLAY LIKE NO BRAIN! *

* I live in reality and let me tell you, there is no one here. * For some reason you feel the need to troll stink bomb a statement of fact. *

* 4 kids single father 2 boats a plane 3cars and more battles than you. * Jesus you smegheads are whiny about your Epeens. *





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