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Italian Auto-Reloaders

Italian Auto-Reloaders Buff

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MASHMAN 90 #21 Posted 28 October 2019 - 02:33 PM

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To be honest, While i'd love it to be Buffed, Personally we all know it's never ever going to be Buffed as the "Spreadsheet" says it is fine. Same with the K-91, i've lost all hope on them ever getting a Buff. Ideally i want a Camo and a Rate of Fire Buff on the K-91 and a 5% Buff (For a start as a test, If players feels it's still underperforming then Buff the DPM by a further 5% for a Final Total of 10%, Even then it's still 17% Lower than PC but at least then for a 14.0 second reload, a 10% Buff of 1.4 lowers that to 12.6 seconds reload) on ALL Italian Auto Reloaders.

 

The Obvious solution is simply not play them until Wargaming has NO choice but to Buff them and i see this when players have good games in Standard B and Progetto 65 (i.e. Stop catering to the Spreadsheet) but why should players who like them be penalized by not be able to play the tank as they're afraid that WG will never Buff it (Also these Players shouldn't have to play it Bad either to skew the data). I like the Standard B a lot, i can do okay in it and one of my favourite Tier 9 Tanks but Let's say the ARL V39 Stock 45 mm Gun is the only gun it has and you do well in it, and it's your favourite tank. Great but you love a Bad Tank and that's fine (Not saying Standard B or ARL V39 sucks as ARL has Upgrades), Equally i sucked in Conqueror for a long time and it wasn't the tank, it was the driver.

 

I like the Worse DPM the Deeper you go into the Magazine, It makes you think carefully how you use your rounds. I've learned not to linger about the Nerfs and just enjoy the game for what it is. If i linger on Nerfs then Tanks is no longer an enjoyable experience. I might say something when a tank comes on then i put it out of my head and move on.



LiteralComic635 #22 Posted 28 October 2019 - 03:11 PM

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I like the Italian line but wholeheartedly agree, I have the 2nd package, larger gun, on the Standard B and the reload time could use a buff. I don't normally request a buff, nor a nerd. The reload time is not okay.

 

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Teffisk #23 Posted 28 October 2019 - 05:07 PM

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View PostMASHMAN 90, on 28 October 2019 - 02:33 PM, said:

 

The Obvious solution is simply not play them until Wargaming has NO choice but to Buff them

This has basically been my tactic. I love the tanks, well, at least the idea of them, but I don't want to play them and I don't want to have good games in them out of protest. We should all boycott playing them until WG buffs them. Basically the only power we have, which is basically none at all.



R35T NO MORE #24 Posted 28 October 2019 - 05:25 PM

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I'll never go up that line, just doesn't look worth the effort. 

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F1DrivingZombie #25 Posted 28 October 2019 - 05:40 PM

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View PostR35T NO MORE, on 28 October 2019 - 12:25 PM, said:

I'll never go up that line, just doesn't look worth the effort. 

 

If they ever buff the tanks like 95% of the community wants them to then odds are it actually will be worth the effort

Ies Gr0ssmanI #26 Posted 28 October 2019 - 06:00 PM

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What makes the Italian system so bad is that, with the current spotting meta fuelled by the fact we can’t drop XB360 from support, you can’t in 45 seconds travel into a map to start flanking/spotting manoeuvres, thus rendering yourself due to fire with 3 shells loaded, which in single fire mode makes the tank unviable. It needs a reload buff or it needs removing, so nobody wastes time on the grind, while I’m on please fix the Bat chat TVP and obj 907/260. WGC you are making mugs out of us. 

SprungNickel427 #27 Posted 28 October 2019 - 06:02 PM

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daily double every once in a while on this line, If I think about it, and got to Tier VII. The reason there's no buff is there's no money in it for the Devs. Tier X premiums and Monster tanks are paying the bills. La Fine.

I44I Warlock #28 Posted 28 October 2019 - 06:04 PM

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The T8 and T9 could be so fun with a reasonable reload but it just felt stressful to play these tanks. 

 

                             

 

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R35T NO MORE #29 Posted 28 October 2019 - 06:05 PM

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View PostF1DrivingZombie, on 28 October 2019 - 05:40 PM, said:

 

If they ever buff the tanks like 95% of the community wants them to then odds are it actually will be worth the effort

 

True, I'm not holding my breath with regards to them being buffed though, unfortunately.

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vHD JOKERZ #30 Posted 28 October 2019 - 06:19 PM

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I find it quite poor that WGC seem to think that every nerf and buff has to rely on the dataspreet that Is so easy to screw over. Let have a look this way. The T57 heavy is has a 4 shot autoloader that take 25 seconds base to reload those 4 shots with a 2 second or so interclip reload so to reload and fire all 4 rounds we are looking at 33 seconds base. Now let's look at the Progetto 65 takes a massive 19 seconds base to reload one 105mm round and I believe its and a further 17/15/13 to reload each consecutive rounds. To put this in to prospective by the time the progetto 65 reload its 2nd round, the T57 heavy has already reloaded and fired all 4 rounds and even by the time the progetto 65 is fully reloaded the T57 heavy has already fired its first round of the second clip. The fact that a "HEAVY" has far superior DPM than a  "MEDIUM" that are meant to specialise in that area is quite frankly pathetic. This is just one example out of many "Oh but the data spreadsheet says its performing well", well yes because most of the player who have this tank are extremely highly skilled hence why the spreesheet looks so healthy. 

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MiikwanXxXiis #31 Posted 28 October 2019 - 06:57 PM

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View PostvHD JOKERZ, on 28 October 2019 - 06:19 PM, said:

I find it quite poor that WGC seem to think that every nerf and buff has to rely on the dataspreet that Is so easy to screw over. Let have a look this way. The T57 heavy is has a 4 shot autoloader that take 25 seconds base to reload those 4 shots with a 2 second or so interclip reload so to reload and fire all 4 rounds we are looking at 33 seconds base. Now let's look at the Progetto 65 takes a massive 19 seconds base to reload one 105mm round and I believe its and a further 17/15/13 to reload each consecutive rounds. To put this in to prospective by the time the progetto 65 reload its 2nd round, the T57 heavy has already reloaded and fired all 4 rounds and even by the time the progetto 65 is fully reloaded the T57 heavy has already fired its first round of the second clip. The fact that a "HEAVY" has far superior DPM than a  "MEDIUM" that are meant to specialise in that area is quite frankly pathetic. This is just one example out of many "Oh but the data spreadsheet says its performing well", well yes because most of the player who have this tank are extremely highly skilled hence why the spreesheet looks so healthy. 

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scwirpeo #32 Posted 28 October 2019 - 07:32 PM

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View PostTeffisk, on 28 October 2019 - 10:07 AM, said:

This has basically been my tactic. I love the tanks, well, at least the idea of them, but I don't want to play them and I don't want to have good games in them out of protest. We should all boycott playing them until WG buffs them. Basically the only power we have, which is basically none at all.

 

If that worked the nearly 60% drop in games played on the 132-1 would probably have signaled to them they made an oof. However all they saw was a 3% drop to win rate and called it a success.

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JARL VARYAG #33 Posted 28 October 2019 - 07:47 PM

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They could use a buff, but they still need to have worse DPM than single shot tanks and auto-loaders, as they combine the best features of both.

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Cyrex005 #34 Posted 28 October 2019 - 07:59 PM

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View PostAshFlex3m, on 28 October 2019 - 03:09 AM, said:

I think it’s high time we talked about how excruciatingly bad the Italian auto-reloading tanks are. Have you noticed that nobody who knows better plays them? It’s because the reload times are absolutely gargantuan! These tanks have been through multiple updates nice they were released and nothing has been done to improve them. If you were to calculate their highest possible dpm using their “fastest” reload times you be met with an excruciatingly low number. For example: The tier X Progetto 65 takes 12.6 seconds base for its “fastest” reload for a shell that only does 360 dmg on average. The IS4 shoots faster than that. The tier 9 Standard B takes a whopping 15.7 sec. base for its “fastest” reload. It takes longer to load just 3 shells than an AMX 50 100 takes to load 6 shells. Not to mention it’s very slow intraclip reload time on top of that. And the tier 8s (tech tree and premium) require 10.6 sec base for their “fastest” reloads. These tanks WOULD require skill and mastery to use properly sure but the ridiculously long reload times make them virtually unplayable. Even the pc version of these tanks have noticeably lower dpm than other medium tanks of the same tier wielding the same caliber of guns. There is absolutely no reason these tanks should be nerfed to this degree on console. They should have the exact same stats as the PC.

It is because Paindoh's mystical "spreadsheets" show that the Italian mediums perform better on PC then Console's medium tanks. So they nerfed the ever living daylights out of them. They do the same thing with almost every tank they port over from PC to Console. Just like the lower plate of the 252U(which irl is the IS-6 so they should both have the same guns and everything). There were two Obj 252 and Obj 253 only difference is one had an electric transmission. Everything else was the same. Then there was the "Great" Light Tank screw up. Then there was the mobility nerf to the M18 . The nerfs to the Foch 155. Can keep going on. 



USSWISCONSIN94 #35 Posted 28 October 2019 - 08:10 PM

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View PostJARL VARYAG, on 28 October 2019 - 02:47 PM, said:

They could use a buff, but they still need to have worse DPM than single shot tanks and auto-loaders, as they combine the best features of both.

This. People really underestimate how much the auto reloaders can change things.

View PostCyrex005, on 28 October 2019 - 02:59 PM, said:

It is because Paindoh's mystical "spreadsheets" show that the Italian mediums perform better on PC then Console's medium tanks. So they nerfed the ever living daylights out of them. They do the same thing with almost every tank they port over from PC to Console. Just like the lower plate of the 252U(which irl is the IS-6 so they should both have the same guns and everything). There were two Obj 252 and Obj 253 only difference is one had an electric transmission. Everything else was the same. Then there was the "Great" Light Tank screw up. Then there was the mobility nerf to the M1 . The nerfs to the Foch 155. Can keep going on. 

Have you played them on PC at all? They are some of the best mediums in the game even beating the tanks the tanks they were based from like the Panther II and Leo PTA which WG still haven't buffed since the Great German Nerf years ago. 252U needed the nerf as it's one of the best tier 8 prems on PC along with the T26E5 and more the Skorpion. the "great Light Screw up" is still mostly the same as PCs and even some of our lights like the Ru 251, SP 1C and a few others i can't remember got buffs since then. Foch 155 needed the nerfs as well but so do the other 850 TDs as well.


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scwirpeo #36 Posted 28 October 2019 - 08:21 PM

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View PostUSSWISCONSIN94, on 28 October 2019 - 01:10 PM, said:

This. People really underestimate how much the auto reloaders can change things.

Have you played them on PC at all? They are some of the best mediums in the game even beating the tanks the tanks they were based from like the Panther II and Leo PTA which WG still haven't buffed since the Great German Nerf years ago. 252U needed the nerf as it's one of the best tier 8 prems on PC along with the T26E5 and more the Skorpion. the "great Light Screw up" is still mostly the same as PCs and even some of our lights like the Ru 251, SP 1C and a few others i can't remember got buffs since then. Foch 155 needed the nerfs as well but so do the other 850 TDs as well.

 

They had no reason to nerf them in 27%+ intervals. If you took 27% of an ingredient from a recipe it would completely alter the result. Small changes every so often are easier to stomach and more productive. You won't end up with a jar of orange juice that only contains a single orange.

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USSWISCONSIN94 #37 Posted 28 October 2019 - 08:27 PM

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View Postscwirpeo, on 28 October 2019 - 03:21 PM, said:

 

They had no reason to nerf them in 27%+ intervals. If you took 27% of an ingredient from a recipe it would completely alter the result. Small changes every so often are easier to stomach and more productive. You won't end up with a jar of orange juice that only contains a single orange.

 

Never said they should've nerfed them by 27% did i?

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animatethant #38 Posted 28 October 2019 - 09:03 PM

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Don't hold your breath guys.

The 121 was barely played ... and they buffed the gun depression like 0.5 degrees lol ...

Sure makes the 121 more tempting to play huh?

Afro Palestine #39 Posted 28 October 2019 - 10:15 PM

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View PostJust An0maly, on 28 October 2019 - 01:40 PM, said:

The Italian line may be the classic example of frustration and unmet expectations, in my view, for the player base.
 

 

We are not the player  base.  Just to say it.

HighSpyker #40 Posted 28 October 2019 - 10:47 PM

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I like the Italian line in concept, but the Standard B takes a ridiculously long time to reload.  I'd settle for a drop to 1.5 sec between interclip reload, and a 15% drop in reload times.





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