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Which Tanks Are Actually No Good When -2?

MM -1/+1 -2/+2

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STUART SHERMAN #1 Posted 02 November 2019 - 11:18 PM

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Lets hear opinions about specific tanks from the community. Tiers III to VIII are all that matters here because the whole -2 thing. I would like for this to be constructive and keep to specific tanks not general terms. 


I think stock gun tanks do not count as they should have little or no play time with stock set up, but it’s also an open subject. 
 

It’s been said that TDs Artillery and lights can generally perform well when -2. I’m sure there are exceptions. Please bring up some examples for debate. 

 

Heavies and Mediums seem to have the worst time on average but which ones. 

 


                                   

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steelheadclan #2 Posted 02 November 2019 - 11:26 PM

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IKV 103 kinda sucks when bottom tier as does the french duck. 

 

I can’t think of anything else. 


 


M4ntiX #3 Posted 02 November 2019 - 11:30 PM

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View PostSTUART SHERMAN, on 02 November 2019 - 11:18 PM, said:

Lets hear opinions about specific tanks from the community. Tiers III to VIII are all that matters here because the whole -2 thing. I would like for this to be constructive and keep to specific tanks not general terms. 


I think stock gun tanks do not count as they should have little or no play time with stock set up, but it’s also an open subject. 
 

It’s been said that TDs Artillery and lights can generally perform well when -2. I’m sure there are exceptions. Please bring up some examples for debate. 

 

Heavies and Mediums seem to have the worst time on average but which ones. 

 

 

So far playing the italians, tiers 5, 6 & 7 seem pretty useless when bottom tier. They are manageable, but frustrating.

Tier 8 TVP VTU is horrible overall, so naturally it doesn't respond well to being bottom tier (with either of the guns).

Mercenary tier 7 Jammer is absolutely useless when going against 9's. Hell, it can't pen half of same tier tanks it sees.

I want to say Tiger II as I know a lot of people think so, but I honestly can't. With its accurate gun and good APCR pen, it plays well in the support role.

Japanese OI's (tier 5 & 6) are XP pinatas when bottom tier and can't do squat. Too slow, too large, too stupid.

 

That's all I can think of right now. I obviously didn't include any lights or arty (lol), those classes could easily play at -4 mm.


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STUART SHERMAN #4 Posted 02 November 2019 - 11:33 PM

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View Poststeelheadclan, on 02 November 2019 - 06:26 PM, said:

IKV 103 kinda sucks when bottom tier as does the french duck. 

 

I can’t think of anything else. 

 

Gotta agree about IKV 103 but it wasn’t much fun +2 either.  Played the Duck so long ago I can’t really recall. 

                                   

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steelheadclan #5 Posted 02 November 2019 - 11:38 PM

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View PostM4ntiX, on 02 November 2019 - 03:30 PM, said:

 

So far playing the italians, tiers 5, 6 & 7 seem pretty useless when bottom tier. They are manageable, but frustrating.

Tier 8 TVP VTU is horrible overall, so naturally it doesn't respond well to being bottom tier (with either of the guns).

Mercenary tier 7 Jammer is absolutely useless when going against 9's. Hell, it can't pen half of same tier tanks it sees.

I want to say Tiger II as I know a lot of people think so, but I honestly can't. With its accurate gun and good APCR pen, it plays well in the support role.

Japanese OI's (tier 5 & 6) are XP pinatas when bottom tier and can't do squat. Too slow, too large, too stupid.

 

That's all I can think of right now. I obviously didn't include any lights or arty (lol), those classes could easily play at -4 mm.

OI's and vtu I agree with, tiger can certainly snipe so it can do some good, I know nothing about the Jammer.

As much as I hate to say it lights in tiers 5-8 when top tier with a good crew are pretty OP in my opinion and even when  -1.


 


radonism #6 Posted 02 November 2019 - 11:38 PM

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View PostM4ntiX, on 02 November 2019 - 11:30 PM, said:

 

Tier 8 TVP VTU is horrible 

 

Definitely this. It has the full  house of crumminess. The size of a barn with armor equivalent to a baby stroller and gun as accurate as a medieval cannon, with similar gun depression. 

 

I'd chuck in something like the Black Prince and the KV-13. I kinda liked the Prince, but in a tier 9 lobby it's mincemeat. Avoided the KV-13.


  

TiagoBarriga #7 Posted 02 November 2019 - 11:39 PM

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The question is not well placed, every tier becomes better than the one before and so any -2 tier is always in some kind of disadvantage and that's the main problem, its not about it being possible or not to have a good game. however the more heavy they are the more disadvantage it gets from -2, for example the OI jap line, british bulldog and some of that kind, the only good thing they have is armor, they are complete usless against +2 tiers, there are alot other tanks that are not any good against theyr own tier i find for example the 110 to be a struglle compared with is3, i can also think about tiger(p) but there are alot more that i'll for sure remember.
But do not ignore stock tanks, the majority of time you are grinding some tank line, unless you have already all you want, but a relativly new player will always be grinding all the time

I remeber another one: Tier 8 t-44 med it takes alot of time with a poor weapon
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ATHFjman18 #8 Posted 02 November 2019 - 11:41 PM

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The Vindicator. A TD doing 230 alpha to tier X tanks is just tragic. 

STUART SHERMAN #9 Posted 02 November 2019 - 11:43 PM

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View PostM4ntiX, on 02 November 2019 - 06:30 PM, said:

 

So far playing the italians, tiers 5, 6 & 7 seem pretty useless when bottom tier. They are manageable, but frustrating.

Tier 8 TVP VTU is horrible overall, so naturally it doesn't respond well to being bottom tier (with either of the guns).

Mercenary tier 7 Jammer is absolutely useless when going against 9's. Hell, it can't pen half of same tier tanks it sees.

I want to say Tiger II as I know a lot of people think so, but I honestly can't. With its accurate gun and good APCR pen, it plays well in the support role.

Japanese OI's (tier 5 & 6) are XP pinatas when bottom tier and can't do squat. Too slow, too large, too stupid.

 

That's all I can think of right now. I obviously didn't include any lights or arty (lol), those classes could easily play at -4 mm.


I had some pretty good rounds in P43 but there are so many real good mediums at tier VII I did not keep it. Chi-Ri is no good at any tier IMO. 
I did quit on the Japanese heavy line at O-Ni tho hoping for a buff at some point.

 


                                   

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Joco3000 #10 Posted 02 November 2019 - 11:45 PM

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View PostM4ntiX, on 02 November 2019 - 11:30 PM, said:

I want to say Tiger II as I know a lot of people think so, but I honestly can't. With its accurate gun and good APCR pen, it plays well in the support role.

I agree with this.

I haven't played the Tiger II in some time, but I have used the CKT quite a lot as of recently.

 

With a less powerful gun, I have found zero issues going up against tier Xs with it. 

Not sure how, but it just tears through everything.

 

View PostATHFjman18, on 02 November 2019 - 11:41 PM, said:

The Vindicator. A TD doing 230 alpha to tier X tanks is just tragic. 

I actually haven't gotten that memo yet.


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ITz Sam C 97 #11 Posted 02 November 2019 - 11:52 PM

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Anything with low alpha damage because people will just yolo and take your 100 alpha if they can hit you for 400

TennisMan56 #12 Posted 02 November 2019 - 11:53 PM

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95% of them with stock package. The 5% is for premium tanks with out PMM.:sceptic:

Edited by TennisMan56, 02 November 2019 - 11:55 PM.


vVMr GoodCatVv #13 Posted 02 November 2019 - 11:55 PM

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View PostJoco3000, on 02 November 2019 - 11:45 PM, said:

I agree with this.

I haven't played the Tiger II in some time, but I have used the CKT quite a lot as of recently.

 

With a less powerful gun, I have found zero issues going up against tier Xs with it. 

Not sure how, but it just tears through everything.

 

I actually haven't gotten that memo yet.

 

im going to have to disagree with you and mantix on this one. The tiger II and heavy tanks in general have a harder time when 2 tiers down. There is a caveat with this however and that is mm. If mm balanced the class spread with tiers so you didnt have an is3, tiger II and an amx 50/100 as one teams heavies against e75s, conquerors or even worse super conqs and is7s then that would help. Bit rambly but I hope I get the point across

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TiagoBarriga #14 Posted 02 November 2019 - 11:57 PM

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View PostTennisMan56, on 02 November 2019 - 11:53 PM, said:

95% of them with stock package.

 

This. Because we cannot ignore stock tanks, some times the good upgrades takes more time than the next tank
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STUART SHERMAN #15 Posted 02 November 2019 - 11:57 PM

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View PostTiagoBarriga, on 02 November 2019 - 06:39 PM, said:

The question is not well placed, every tier becomes better than the one before and so any -2 tier is always in some kind of disadvantage and that's the main problem, its not about it being possible or not to have a good game. however the more heavy they are the more disadvantage it gets from -2, for example the OI jap line, british bulldog and some of that kind, the only good thing they have is armor, they are complete usless against +2 tiers, there are alot other tanks that are not any good against theyr own tier i find for example the 110 to be a struglle compared with is3, i can also think about tiger(p) but there are alot more that i'll for sure remember.
But do not ignore stock tanks, the majority of time you are grinding some tank line, unless you have already all you want, but a relativly new player will always be grinding all the time

 

Obviously being -2 is a disadvantage but that is not what we are talking about. It’s also not about having a good game in a tank at -2  but about tanks that rarely have a good game at -2. I don’t think there are that many that are universally agreed to be that bad. 
For instance I do not agree that Tiger P is no good when -2. A slightly slower more heavily armored Tiger I. No problem. 


                                   

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M4ntiX #16 Posted 02 November 2019 - 11:58 PM

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View PostTiagoBarriga, on 02 November 2019 - 11:57 PM, said:

 

This. Because we cannot ignore stock tanks, some times the good upgrades takes more time than the next tank

 

That's what free XP is for and what this thread is not. We are discussing fully upgraded tanks that struggle when bottom tier.

 

Go away.


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STUART SHERMAN #17 Posted 03 November 2019 - 12:00 AM

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View PostTennisMan56, on 02 November 2019 - 06:53 PM, said:

95% of them with stock package. The 5% is for premium tanks with out PMM.:sceptic:

 

So don’t linger on those stages. It’s what free xp is for. 

                                   

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STUART SHERMAN #18 Posted 03 November 2019 - 12:01 AM

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View PostM4ntiX, on 02 November 2019 - 06:58 PM, said:

 

That's what free XP is for and what this thread is not. We are discussing fully upgraded tanks that struggle when bottom tier.

 

Go away.


Ninjaed. :great:


                                   

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Joco3000 #19 Posted 03 November 2019 - 12:06 AM

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View PostvVMr GoodCatVv, on 02 November 2019 - 11:55 PM, said:

 

im going to have to disagree with you and mantix on this one. The tiger II and heavy tanks in general have a harder time when 2 tiers down. There is a caveat with this however and that is mm. If mm balanced the class spread with tiers so you didnt have an is3, tiger II and an amx 50/100 as one teams heavies against e75s, conquerors or even worse super conqs and is7s then that would help. Bit rambly but I hope I get the point across

 

I know where you're coming from, and I do agree that heavy tanks as a whole tend to struggle more when bottom tier. Their general lack of mobility hinders them greatly, which is not offset by their armour increase, because said armour increase is certainly not enough against most tier IX machines, never mind the tier Xs.

 

The Tiger II is an exception, in my opinion. Unlike many other heavies at its tier, it has quite good mobility, thanks to the Great German Screw-up of '14.

It also has very usable armour. Thick enough to be a fair threat unangled, and when angled it can shrug off even tier X heavies.

 

Of course, your average Tiger II driver isn't going to be doing that, so they're easy to take out.

 

Some of the other tier VIII heavies get off alright. The T32 does alright, thanks to the newer gun. The Caernarvon I think would be fine, as would the AMX 50 100, as neither rely on their armour when top tier anyway.

 

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TiagoBarriga #20 Posted 03 November 2019 - 12:10 AM

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View PostM4ntiX, on 02 November 2019 - 11:58 PM, said:

 

That's what free XP is for and what this thread is not. We are discussing fully upgraded tanks that struggle when bottom tier.

 

Go away.

 

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