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Which Tanks Are Actually No Good When -2?

MM -1/+1 -2/+2

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Joco3000 #21 Posted 03 November 2019 - 12:15 AM

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View PostTiagoBarriga, on 03 November 2019 - 12:10 AM, said:

 

Yes i cannot have reason because its me i have less games, you are so smart im impressed

 

At your number of games, especially with all of the boosts that WG have provided over the past few years, you should have enough convertible XP to skipp past the stock grinds of any tank you'd care about.

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TennisMan56 #22 Posted 03 November 2019 - 12:26 AM

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View PostSTUART SHERMAN, on 03 November 2019 - 12:00 AM, said:

 

So don’t linger on those stages. It’s what free do is for. 

 

O I agree just thought I would throw some humor into the mix. I run a tank a few games to see if it is even good when middle or top, then I may free xp it. But if this becomes a +2-2 mm I like +2-2. You have to keep in mind some people do not have enough free xp or do not understand to free xp past TT stages.

John Arrowsmith #23 Posted 03 November 2019 - 12:30 AM

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View PostTiagoBarriga, on 03 November 2019 - 12:10 AM, said:

 

Yes i cannot have reason because its me i have less games, you are so smart im impressed

 

did you read the 1st post in this thread or have you just decided to take this thread on a wild crusade.

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Lord Jonny IV #24 Posted 03 November 2019 - 12:30 AM

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No good ... i dont think any

Poor ..lots of them

 

But most tanks can contribute in some way even if its just tracking.

 

Lets be honest some tanks are still poor as top tier...but i dont i have been in a tank and thought  it is completely useless.

 

I even quite enjoyed the m3lee



CostlessSun07 #25 Posted 03 November 2019 - 01:15 AM

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I would say mediums tanks in general struggle down 2.  It seems Fury and Thunderbolt find a disproportionate number of battles down 2 when compared to other tier VI meds.  Normally, I try a support position and flank heavies when they are engaged but really its over if you eat 2 shots.  The only thing that makes you competitive is agility.

De4thSt4lker206 #26 Posted 03 November 2019 - 01:22 AM

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gonna mostly stick to non-premiums.

 

Spoiler

 

 

this is just the "worst offenders" in my book. most heavies (or otherwise slow tanks) struggle greatly -2. i didn't include the O series, because durp guns mean they can at the least do damage.


Edited by De4thSt4lker206, 03 November 2019 - 01:29 AM.

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HighSpyker #27 Posted 03 November 2019 - 01:24 AM

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View PostSTUART SHERMAN, on 02 November 2019 - 06:57 PM, said:

 

Obviously being -2 is a disadvantage but that is not what we are talking about. It’s also not about having a good game in a tank at -2  but about tanks that rarely have a good game at -2. I don’t think there are that many that are universally agreed to be that bad. 

The S35 is a very well-rounded tank, but is no good at -2.



Lord Jonny IV #28 Posted 03 November 2019 - 01:30 AM

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Nice sum up...

I think a lot depends on the player and the tank.

I loved the at15 for example



De4thSt4lker206 #29 Posted 03 November 2019 - 01:31 AM

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View PostCostlessSun07, on 02 November 2019 - 07:15 PM, said:

I would say mediums tanks in general struggle down 2.  It seems Fury and Thunderbolt find a disproportionate number of battles down 2 when compared to other tier VI meds.  Normally, I try a support position and flank heavies when they are engaged but really its over if you eat 2 shots.  The only thing that makes you competitive is agility.

 

i would say it is mainly the mid tier 4-7 mediums that struggle, at 8 they pull back in to contention, aside from the unusually slow ones.

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De4thSt4lker206 #30 Posted 03 November 2019 - 01:32 AM

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View PostLord Jonny IV, on 02 November 2019 - 07:30 PM, said:

Nice sum up...

I think a lot depends on the player and the tank.

I loved the at15 for example

 

yeah i personally enjoyed the AT-15a (haven't played it since 2016) we are simply talking about tanks that are generally not viable when fighting +2s.

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HighSpyker #31 Posted 03 November 2019 - 01:44 AM

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AT-15 and AT-15A are different tanks.  A gets PMM.

De4thSt4lker206 #32 Posted 03 November 2019 - 01:50 AM

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View PostHighSpyker, on 02 November 2019 - 07:44 PM, said:

AT-15 and AT-15A are different tanks.  A gets PMM.

 

i am aware, but physically they are very similar. the a just doesn't have to deal with +2, though the gun does need APCR on occasion for some 8s.

Edited by De4thSt4lker206, 03 November 2019 - 01:50 AM.

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RAGNAR0K N ROLL #33 Posted 03 November 2019 - 02:13 AM

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I'd say the Mouthbreather (Mauerbrecher) is a prime candidate if we're going to add premiums to the mix as some seem to be doing. Its armor is negated by weak points in all the wrong places and honestly for a superheavy I feel its HP are low. But that may be because it shares a tier with its broken coutnerpart the VK which is ridiculous 

 

Another is the obvious Kraft Panther which has no business seeing Tier IX's but that is a point that's been talked to death.


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SirDerp-a-lot #34 Posted 03 November 2019 - 02:37 AM

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View PostDe4thSt4lker206, on 03 November 2019 - 02:22 AM, said:

 

The Matilda struggles, agreed. It's slower than most heavies, making it difficult to move into position where its gun can still work.

 

The Jumbo might be one of the best +2 tanks. Of course you have to pick the right gun....

 

The T32's turret is unmatched at tier VIII, and still works at tier X. I don't see anything wrong with it.

 

The Pz. II J has fixed +1 MM, ie. it only ever sees tier IV games (unless you platoon of course). That said, it's hilarious fun if you load it up with premium ammo and goods (expensive though).

 

The DW2 has the same MM as any other tier IV heavy. They all at worst see +1 games.

 

The SKW and the ARL V39 work very nicely, thank you. I don't see anything more problematic than with any other TD of the same tier.

 

You are using the wrong gun on the P.43.



steelheadclan #35 Posted 03 November 2019 - 03:10 AM

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View PostHighSpyker, on 02 November 2019 - 05:24 PM, said:

The S35 is a very well-rounded tank, but is no good at -2.

 

View PostSirDerp-a-lot, on 02 November 2019 - 06:37 PM, said:

 

The Matilda struggles, agreed. It's slower than most heavies, making it difficult to move into position where its gun can still work.

 

The Jumbo might be one of the best +2 tanks. Of course you have to pick the right gun....

 

The T32's turret is unmatched at tier VIII, and still works at tier X. I don't see anything wrong with it.

 

The Pz. II J has fixed +1 MM, ie. it only ever sees tier IV games (unless you platoon of course). That said, it's hilarious fun if you load it up with premium ammo and goods (expensive though).

 

The DW2 has the same MM as any other tier IV heavy. They all at worst see +1 games.

 

The SKW and the ARL V39 work very nicely, thank you. I don't see anything more problematic than with any other TD of the same tier.

 

You are using the wrong gun on the P.43.

Slow tanks with weak guns(Duck/matilda) and tanks with lousy ammo options (IKV103) just suffer, your speed makes it tough to play a supporting role (which is key when bottom tier) Or like the poor 103 that's cursed with heat but not the accuracy to use it properly.

If the 103 had a HE round it would probably immediately be a better bottom tier contender.

There are few that have strengths that make the a bit more viable even when they're slow, overall in this game thankfully most can play a supporting roll when not yolo'd or thrown away early.

 


 


STUART SHERMAN #36 Posted 03 November 2019 - 03:40 AM

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View PostDe4thSt4lker206, on 02 November 2019 - 08:22 PM, said:

gonna mostly stick to non-premiums.

 

Spoiler

 

 

this is just the "worst offenders" in my book. most heavies (or otherwise slow tanks) struggle greatly -2. i didn't include the O series, because durp guns mean they can at the least do damage.


First off thank you for the well thought out list including your reasons. +1
 

 

Matilda and the whole Church line could use a speed buff. But having just run a few rounds in Church VII she’s still ok at -2. A better top gun would be great tho. :great:
The TDs have been power creeped since I ran them and I’m not a fan of the 20pdr so I used the 32pdr on AT15. For reasons I cannot explain it worked for me. 
 

Jumbo Sherman, I actually like the 76mm. Use the177 pen premium round when needed.

 Tiger P, I know this one is controversial but I liked it and did not think it was particularly bad at -2. Tiger I with 2X the frontal armor and a bit less speed. No problem. 

The KV1 with the 57mm firing 26+ Premium rounds per minute with 189 pen can be very effective when -2. IS with the 122 is pretty formidable much like the Chinese IS2. Nice gun so-so armor still not a deal breaker for me. IS-M? I’m kinda surprised to find this one on the list. She’s a keeper for me. 
I’m having a great time with T34-2G FT. I recently added it to my garage and free XPed past the stock gun and it’s been pretty good. No issues being -2 here for me. 
 

I completely agree about DW2 but as you said already gets -1/+1 so nonissue. 

 

Also agree on many of the others you’ve listed here. I think -1/+1 tier IV and below is a good idea. It could help address many of the tanks on this list, and may help keep new players playing.
Some others I think are borderline ok T69, T1, Jp IV, Swedish mediums, for example so a small adjustment might do the trick for them.

Agree on most of the ones you say are pretty much crap any time as well but -1/+1 won’t help them anyway. 

 


 


                                   

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Tempest fox3 #37 Posted 03 November 2019 - 05:33 AM

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View PostM4ntiX, on 02 November 2019 - 11:30 PM, said:

 

So far playing the italians, tiers 5, 6 & 7 seem pretty useless when bottom tier. They are manageable, but frustrating.

Tier 8 TVP VTU is horrible overall, so naturally it doesn't respond well to being bottom tier (with either of the guns).

Mercenary tier 7 Jammer is absolutely useless when going against 9's. Hell, it can't pen half of same tier tanks it sees.

I want to say Tiger II as I know a lot of people think so, but I honestly can't. With its accurate gun and good APCR pen, it plays well in the support role.

Japanese OI's (tier 5 & 6) are XP pinatas when bottom tier and can't do squat. Too slow, too large, too stupid.

 

That's all I can think of right now. I obviously didn't include any lights or arty (lol), those classes could easily play at -4 mm.

 

The Italians are mostly useless when top tier lol. 


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Spoiler

pilotguy79 #38 Posted 03 November 2019 - 08:36 AM

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panther 2 sucks. It can’t hit hard enough or fast enough . It’s awful when fighting higher tiers

matematicalone #39 Posted 03 November 2019 - 11:33 AM

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Good thread OP, this is much better than those trash threads about +-1 MM. It makes sense to talk about certain tanks which kinda work bad in -2 environment and could use a buff for sake of balance in game.

My candidates are A-44, TVP, Chinese tier VII, Panther (only a slight alpha buff needed imo), Italian tier V and VI (some gun handling and pen buff), Brit heavy tier VI and VII (speed buff), KV-4 (needs package with 122 mm gun from IS-3 and a slight speed buff).



XLilabnerX #40 Posted 03 November 2019 - 11:34 AM

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I will stick to two, since some have more time in these forums. :

T150, Arl 44






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