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Deathstar HE/HESH mechanic


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Fightomonkey #1 Posted 26 March 2020 - 11:33 PM

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Fightomonkey #2 Posted 26 March 2020 - 11:36 PM

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Could someone explain why the HESH round did less damage to the Mauschen than the HE round? (begin video at 3:30.)


FusionStar287 #3 Posted 26 March 2020 - 11:51 PM

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View PostFightomonkey, on 26 March 2020 - 06:36 PM, said:

Could someone explain why the HESH round did less damage to the Mauschen than the HE round? (begin video at 3:30.)

It's hard to see, but if you look closely you can see the HESH shell barely hit the tracks of the Mauschen, while your non-premium HESH shell after hit the lower plate directly. The premium HESH shell hitting the tracks put enough space between its impact point and the Mauschen's hull to reduce its splash damage.


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Fightomonkey #4 Posted 27 March 2020 - 01:23 AM

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View PostFusionStar287, on 26 March 2020 - 06:51 PM, said:

It's hard to see, but if you look closely you can see the HESH shell barely hit the tracks of the Mauschen, while your non-premium HESH shell after hit the lower plate directly. The premium HESH shell hitting the tracks put enough space between its impact point and the Mauschen's hull to reduce its splash damage.

 

It's my platoonmate's video, actually. I just thought that it was pretty strange. Also, take a look at 3:05-- there's a HESH round that does 0 damage. How is that even possible? Someone said that HE and HESH do the same damage if they don't pen. That's not true, is it? I was under the impression that the amount of partial damage was based upon penetration values?

Edited by Fightomonkey, 27 March 2020 - 01:27 AM.


SweetBook87345 #5 Posted 27 March 2020 - 01:31 AM

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It is because the deathstar is a slave to RNG.  

Tempest fox3 #6 Posted 27 March 2020 - 03:54 AM

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View PostFightomonkey, on 27 March 2020 - 01:23 AM, said:

 

It's my platoonmate's video, actually. I just thought that it was pretty strange. Also, take a look at 3:05-- there's a HESH round that does 0 damage. How is that even possible? Someone said that HE and HESH do the same damage if they don't pen. That's not true, is it? I was under the impression that the amount of partial damage was based upon penetration values?

For HE splash (HESH is the same) 

 

actual damage = 0.5*nominal damage*(1-impact distance/splash radius)-1.1*nominal armour thickness*spall coefficient

 

Things to bare in mind, a HE shell detonates on contact with the first surface it hits. A sphere with the radius determined by the shell is then drawn from the point of detonation. The damage calculation is run against all sections of Armour within that sphere simultaneously and the highest damage result is then inflicted on the enemy tank. That is to say while the impact point is a 150mm thick plate of Armour, it may get a better result calculating against the section 2m away that is only 50mm thick but still within the HE sphere (this is why large splash radius is great for HE shells) 

 

If the point of detonations is sufficiently far away from the damage model, there is spaced Armour or an external module in the way. Or the raw thickness of the Armour is particularly high and the splash sphere cannot find a thinner section within its radius. it is entirely possible to do zero damage

 


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Akumahito #7 Posted 27 March 2020 - 11:23 AM

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View PostFusionStar287, on 26 March 2020 - 06:51 PM, said:

It's hard to see, but if you look closely you can see the HESH shell barely hit the tracks of the Mauschen, while your non-premium HESH shell after hit the lower plate directly. The premium HESH shell hitting the tracks put enough space between its impact point and the Mauschen's hull to reduce its splash damage.

 

View PostTempest fox3, on 26 March 2020 - 10:54 PM, said:

For HE splash (HESH is the same) 

 

actual damage = 0.5*nominal damage*(1-impact distance/splash radius)-1.1*nominal armour thickness*spall coefficient

 

Things to bare in mind, a HE shell detonates on contact with the first surface it hits. A sphere with the radius determined by the shell is then drawn from the point of detonation. The damage calculation is run against all sections of Armour within that sphere simultaneously and the highest damage result is then inflicted on the enemy tank. That is to say while the impact point is a 150mm thick plate of Armour, it may get a better result calculating against the section 2m away that is only 50mm thick but still within the HE sphere (this is why large splash radius is great for HE shells) 

 

If the point of detonations is sufficiently far away from the damage model, there is spaced Armour or an external module in the way. Or the raw thickness of the Armour is particularly high and the splash sphere cannot find a thinner section within its radius. it is entirely possible to do zero damage

 

 

Nice to see some folks that actually understands the mechanics of it.

 

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Edited by Akumahito, 27 March 2020 - 11:24 AM.


Fightomonkey #8 Posted 27 March 2020 - 02:50 PM

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View PostTempest fox3, on 26 March 2020 - 10:54 PM, said:

For HE splash (HESH is the same) 

 

actual damage = 0.5*nominal damage*(1-impact distance/splash radius)-1.1*nominal armour thickness*spall coefficient

 

Things to bare in mind, a HE shell detonates on contact with the first surface it hits. A sphere with the radius determined by the shell is then drawn from the point of detonation. The damage calculation is run against all sections of Armour within that sphere simultaneously and the highest damage result is then inflicted on the enemy tank. That is to say while the impact point is a 150mm thick plate of Armour, it may get a better result calculating against the section 2m away that is only 50mm thick but still within the HE sphere (this is why large splash radius is great for HE shells) 

 

If the point of detonations is sufficiently far away from the damage model, there is spaced Armour or an external module in the way. Or the raw thickness of the Armour is particularly high and the splash sphere cannot find a thinner section within its radius. it is entirely possible to do zero damage

 

 

Ok, so if I'm understanding you correctly, a HESH or HE round from a Deathstar that does not pen will do exactly the same damage if it hits exactly the same spot. Is this correct?


Akumahito #9 Posted 27 March 2020 - 03:09 PM

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View PostFightomonkey, on 27 March 2020 - 09:50 AM, said:

 

Ok, so if I'm understanding you correctly, a HESH or HE round from a Deathstar that does not pen will do exactly the same damage if it hits exactly the same spot. Is this correct?

 

No, the shells each have a different penetration value.  The shells pen negates some of the armor, that's why Deathstar/ShitBarn owners only use HESH load outs




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