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Tier X Rework - personal Opinion

Balance Tier 10 Tier X

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Cpt MaDnezZ-x #1 Posted 26 April 2020 - 01:29 PM

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Hello Developers, 

 

I want to present which Tanks in Tier 10 need love - this is my Personal Opionion and I made a few thoughts about how to buff/Nerf them to a good but not OP/UP level.

 

Edit: Added a few Tanks that i dont noticed till the Comments came. :) I only rate Tanks that I already played with, so i dont have a real opinion about Type 5 Heavy, Objekt 268V4 and another few.

E50M - in my opinion a little weak due its Turret Armor compared to his competitorr M48 Patton, and a slighlty weak DPM for a Medium but a good prezise gun.
Idea: A little buff for the DPM from 2386 to 2500. He doesnt get a good but better DPM, still worse than Leopard, Patton, M60, T95E6, Objekt 140/T62A and british mediums, but better than the high Alpha Objekt 430U.
a little Buff for the Turret armor by 20mm which get him to 205mm, which is still not unpenetrateable but makes it harder for enemies in distance.

 

Maus - Maus is by far a tank which is out of meta right now. Yes he has a solid Armor when angled, but it is a slow tank with a distgusting DPM.
Idea: Maus has to be slow, its a Maus, so it is okay. But the Maus have to get more firepower when it finally reaches the frontline (before the war is all over in todays 4 Minute Matches). My Idea is to Buff the DPM from 1911 to 2200 and a better Penetration from 246 to 260mm on AP Shells and from 311 to 320mm on APCR.

 

E-100 - the E-100 has only one realy Comparable Tank, the 60TP. The E-100 is not realy underpowered but a little bit out of Meta since many Tanks with HEAT Shells came up and Heavys with Spaced Armor, which makes the E-100 Turret Armor look like a waste of Steel.
Idea: a little Buff to the Turretarmor - adding some plates of 10mm spaced Armor, its not needed to be on the whole front of the Turret, we dont to create a new German Super Conqueror, leave spaces for Weakspots. Maybe Tracks on the Turret for a nice optical Feature too. The 150mm Gun is pretty okay for its high damage but need a litte Buff on penetration from 246 to 255mm on AP.

 

K-91 - Right now there is no really a benefit for playing the K91 - the Tank has lost his USP the DPM. T-62A, Objekt 140 will outperform this tank by far in firepower and Armor.
Idea: Massive DPM Buff from 2428 to 3008 which is 100 DPM more than the T-62A and Obejekt 140.

 

IS-4 - the IS-4 has good solid Armor, but as the E-100 he became old. His turret Armor can be overmatched from Kalibers over 90mm and his gun has the lowest Alpha DMG from all sowjet Heavys together with the Obj260 but also no significant Advantage over IS-7 and Objekt 277.

Idea: Turret Armor Buff from 30 to 60 mm. Slighlty Buff the DPM from 2200 to 2350 on the serious 122mm Gun.

AMX M4 54 - the big gun with 560 Alpha DMG schould be the primary gun on this tank. Righ now it as no USP against Super Conqueror. Now i notice that many players take the little gun, due to his better DPM, precision and softstats. But the little gun is not really good in comparison to gun of the super conqueror
Idea: 130mm Gun  Penetration Buff from 250 to 265 Standard AP and from 280 to 295 on Premium AP  and DPM from 1988 to 2200
120mm Gun DPM Buff from 2200 to 2400

TVP T50/51 - this tank is pretty okay but in comparision with The Machine it has not really a USP.
Idea: Give the TVP T50/51 the same DPM as the Machine and give the TVP a supporter and sniper loader Role. Buff Dispersion from 0.35 to 0.32

Kranvagn - Kranvagn has a special Role compared to T57 and AMX50b - it performs okay but needs a stronger Role on his own. So maybe the changes from PC would make sence. 

Idea: Clip reduce from 4 to 3 round but a higher Alpha DMG from 400 to 440 and change it to a better DPM from 2284 to 2600, also reduce the Intra Clip Reload from 3sec to 2,5sec. DPM will be between AMX50B (2432) and T57 (3096) but with a reduced Clip damage from 1600 to 1320 - so i think its well balanced from this point.

 

FV4005 & FV 215b 183 - they are both not OP but really broken due to there high Penetration and Damage on Premium HESH.
Idea: Reduce the Penetration from Premium HESH from 275 to 240 mm and the Damage from 1750 to 1500. To balance and compensate that changes there schould be a buff for a few stats. Change the rate of fire from 2 to 2,1 Shots per Minute and raise the amount of Granades from 12 to 20.

Progetto 65 - Unique mechanic, hard to balance, but a DPM on the fastest loading Granate from 1661 is way to low.
Idea: to support different playertypes i would balance all 4 Granates differently. to raise the DPM on for players which use the tank wisely and often use the frist 2 Granates but also get still a penalty for players who play this Tank as "normal Autoloader" by using all shots in a row. 

Changes reloadtime from: 

13 Sek to 10 Sek

15 Sek to 12,5 Sek

17 Sek to 17,5 Sek

19 Sek to 20,5 Sek
Players who use the shots effective will profit from a much higher DPM (example when only using the first Granade - from 1661 to 2160DPM). In the same time Players who spam the granates out will still get a high reload time for all 4 Shots by 60,5 Seconds which is still unattractive an only 3,5 Seconds lower before my suggested changes.

Hope you guys will read this and take a few points for overthinking. :)

 

Greetings from Germany


Edited by Cpt MaDnezZ, 29 April 2020 - 11:56 AM.

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DwarfOnDrugs-x #2 Posted 26 April 2020 - 03:00 PM

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Nice to see a fellow gamer on the forums that understands the game.

I agree with everything said in here.


 


Haukkis-x #3 Posted 26 April 2020 - 03:09 PM

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View PostDwarfOnDrugs, on 26 April 2020 - 04:00 PM, said:

Nice to see a fellow gamer on the forums that understands the game.

I agree with everything said in here.

 

Some great suggestions, I like these :) However, I would add my something: K-91's camo values should be buffed to same level as Object 140. AMX M4 54's 130mm gun premium pen should be even higher, 302mm-310mm should be enough but not too much. Maus needs even more DPM to defend itself and counter it's horrible mobility, might even need higher alpha, 560 alpha should do the trick :)

Edited by Haukkis, 26 April 2020 - 03:10 PM.


DerKameITreiber-p #4 Posted 26 April 2020 - 03:21 PM

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And the Type5 needs to a Buff .

Pen from big Gun 80 to 90 or more .

Amour Buff ( Because 90° ) 

 

Ammo Storages Buff

 



tokyobatman-p #5 Posted 26 April 2020 - 03:22 PM

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I like your changes, but would prefer the Kranvagn, stay a four shot tank.  It does need some changes,  but leave the loadout the same.. imo
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JAG THE GEMINI-x #6 Posted 26 April 2020 - 07:03 PM

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I agree with these suggestions in generell however i would do certain things a bit different:

E50M dpm buff sounds good but instead of a direct turret armor buff i suggest better gun depression from -8 to -10. So you can artificially increase the armor by clever positioning on ridge lines.

 

K91 and Mouse sound good

 

AMX M4 54 a pen. Buff to the 130 mm gun is really important. I argued at times that 250 AP pen at tierX is laughable and just encourages players to spam "skill-rounds". At least buff it to 258 AP pen.

 

Kranvagn and TVP I guess i like those changes too.

 

"Deathstars" I would change even more... Imo these are the "EMBODIMENT" of what is wrong with game on tierX.

Nerf armor on FV 215B 183 or make the camo like that of the FV4005 besides the changes you suggested.

 

Progetto sounds also good.

 

Imo tanks like Type5 heavy, IS4 and Obj. 268 V4 need buffs/changes too

 

 


Edited by JAG THE GEMINI, 26 April 2020 - 07:06 PM.

 

 

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Thundering Fox-x #7 Posted 27 April 2020 - 01:05 AM

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Sounds great, I have always wanted that change to the Kranvagn, it should be unique and it doesn't feel like that right now...

inggrish-p #8 Posted 28 April 2020 - 09:58 AM

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I like all these changes. I would probably make sure the FV4005 kept its dpm if you were to reduce the other stats. You did say to increase fire rate but I'm too lazy to work out if that change would be enough.

 

A few others I would add:

 

Chieftain (I made a thread on this) - buff alpha to 420 and reduce rate of fire so dpm is same as before. Improve ground resistancesd by 0.2 on all ground types

 

Leopard 1 - give slight buff to accuracy on the move, and improve aim time by 0.2 seconds

 

Badger - increase dpm significantly from 6.19 rounds/min to 8 rounds/min. Improve ground resistances from 1.8/2/3 to 1.6/1.8/2.5

 

The Machine - nerf intra-clip reload by 0.5 seconds

 

 


Edited by inggrish, 28 April 2020 - 10:44 AM.


kameloff #9 Posted 28 April 2020 - 10:35 AM

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TVP T 50/51 - Certainly needs buff because The Machine has good armor, good hp, good dpm, good gun depression. etc. The Machine superb compared to TVP and ruining all of the Czech tree. therefore, TVP would definitely better than The machine. has to be.

Destinations-x #10 Posted 28 April 2020 - 11:38 AM

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They will never buff my kranvagn lol don't get your hopes up:justwait:

Stahl_Patriot #11 Posted 29 April 2020 - 05:17 PM

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Hello captain,
I think your tank revision is really great, I come from the PS4, and always like to follow your posts, really nice to see German WOT Consolen posts.
The tank adjustment is very important, but what particularly pisses me off is the Arty's in the 10 range, they also have to be adjusted urgently ... LG SP



wake_the_move-p #12 Posted 29 April 2020 - 05:34 PM

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Very constructive and thoughtful ideas. I hope the devs take a good look at them. Good job, Cap!

 

I would like to add, that in my humble option any German 15 cm gun should receive a buff to it‘s HEAT pen to 350mm, just like the VK 72.01 (k) got on PC. I see no reason why a 15cm shell with way more payload should be of less impact than a 105mm HEAT round (high tier medium tanks), which have 340 mm pen avg.


Edited by wake_the_move, 29 April 2020 - 06:20 PM.


V4nquished79-x #13 Posted 30 April 2020 - 08:31 AM

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Turn back the shell velocity and reverse speed of Grille 15.

Khordad-x #14 Posted 30 April 2020 - 09:02 AM

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View PostCpt MaDnezZ, on 26 April 2020 - 01:29 PM, said:

Hello Developers, 

 

I want to present which Tanks in Tier 10 need love - this is my Personal Opionion and I made a few thoughts about how to buff/Nerf them to a good but not OP/UP level.

 

Edit: Added a few Tanks that i dont noticed till the Comments came. :) I only rate Tanks that I already played with, so i dont have a real opinion about Type 5 Heavy, Objekt 268V4 and another few.

E50M - in my opinion a little weak due its Turret Armor compared to his competitorr M48 Patton, and a slighlty weak DPM for a Medium but a good prezise gun.
Idea: A little buff for the DPM from 2386 to 2500. He doesnt get a good but better DPM, still worse than Leopard, Patton, M60, T95E6, Objekt 140/T62A and british mediums, but better than the high Alpha Objekt 430U.
a little Buff for the Turret armor by 20mm which get him to 205mm, which is still not unpenetrateable but makes it harder for enemies in distance.

 

Maus - Maus is by far a tank which is out of meta right now. Yes he has a solid Armor when angled, but it is a slow tank with a distgusting DPM.
Idea: Maus has to be slow, its a Maus, so it is okay. But the Maus have to get more firepower when it finally reaches the frontline (before the war is all over in todays 4 Minute Matches). My Idea is to Buff the DPM from 1911 to 2200 and a better Penetration from 246 to 260mm on AP Shells and from 311 to 320mm on APCR.

 

E-100 - the E-100 has only one realy Comparable Tank, the 60TP. The E-100 is not realy underpowered but a little bit out of Meta since many Tanks with HEAT Shells came up and Heavys with Spaced Armor, which makes the E-100 Turret Armor look like a waste of Steel.
Idea: a little Buff to the Turretarmor - adding some plates of 10mm spaced Armor, its not needed to be on the whole front of the Turret, we dont to create a new German Super Conqueror, leave spaces for Weakspots. Maybe Tracks on the Turret for a nice optical Feature too. The 150mm Gun is pretty okay for its high damage but need a litte Buff on penetration from 246 to 255mm on AP.

 

K-91 - Right now there is no really a benefit for playing the K91 - the Tank has lost his USP the DPM. T-62A, Objekt 140 will outperform this tank by far in firepower and Armor.
Idea: Massive DPM Buff from 2428 to 3008 which is 100 DPM more than the T-62A and Obejekt 140.

 

IS-4 - the IS-4 has good solid Armor, but as the E-100 he became old. His turret Armor can be overmatched from Kalibers over 90mm and his gun has the lowest Alpha DMG from all sowjet Heavys together with the Obj260 but also no significant Advantage over IS-7 and Objekt 277.

Idea: Turret Armor Buff from 30 to 60 mm. Slighlty Buff the DPM from 2200 to 2350 on the serious 122mm Gun.

AMX M4 54 - the big gun with 560 Alpha DMG schould be the primary gun on this tank. Righ now it as no USP against Super Conqueror. Now i notice that many players take the little gun, due to his better DPM, precision and softstats. But the little gun is not really good in comparison to gun of the super conqueror
Idea: 130mm Gun  Penetration Buff from 250 to 265 Standard AP and from 280 to 295 on Premium AP  and DPM from 1988 to 2200
120mm Gun DPM Buff from 2200 to 2400

TVP T50/51 - this tank is pretty okay but in comparision with The Machine it has not really a USP.
Idea: Give the TVP T50/51 the same DPM as the Machine and give the TVP a supporter and sniper loader Role. Buff Dispersion from 0.35 to 0.32

Kranvagn - Kranvagn has a special Role compared to T57 and AMX50b - it performs okay but needs a stronger Role on his own. So maybe the changes from PC would make sence. 

Idea: Clip reduce from 4 to 3 round but a higher Alpha DMG from 400 to 440 and change it to a better DPM from 2284 to 2600, also reduce the Intra Clip Reload from 3sec to 2,5sec. DPM will be between AMX50B (2432) and T57 (3096) but with a reduced Clip damage from 1600 to 1320 - so i think its well balanced from this point.

 

FV4005 & FV 215b 183 - they are both not OP but really broken due to there high Penetration and Damage on Premium HESH.
Idea: Reduce the Penetration from Premium HESH from 275 to 240 mm and the Damage from 1750 to 1500. To balance and compensate that changes there schould be a buff for a few stats. Change the rate of fire from 2 to 2,1 Shots per Minute and raise the amount of Granades from 12 to 20.

Progetto 65 - Unique mechanic, hard to balance, but a DPM on the fastest loading Granate from 1661 is way to low.
Idea: to support different playertypes i would balance all 4 Granates differently. to raise the DPM on for players which use the tank wisely and often use the frist 2 Granates but also get still a penalty for players who play this Tank as "normal Autoloader" by using all shots in a row. 

Changes reloadtime from: 

13 Sek to 10 Sek

15 Sek to 12,5 Sek

17 Sek to 17,5 Sek

19 Sek to 20,5 Sek
Players who use the shots effective will profit from a much higher DPM (example when only using the first Granade - from 1661 to 2160DPM). In the same time Players who spam the granates out will still get a high reload time for all 4 Shots by 60,5 Seconds which is still unattractive an only 3,5 Seconds lower before my suggested changes.

Hope you guys will read this and take a few points for overthinking. :)

 

Greetings from Germany

 



Khordad-x #15 Posted 30 April 2020 - 09:10 AM

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If you they nerf FV4005 HESH to 240mm what advantage remains for it? It is the only thing that this tank has besides the buff to gun depression and turret rotation. No camo, 12 degrees of gun rotation, huge paper turret.I personally think they should nerf Jpanzer E 100 with that size it has more camo than 4005, it has accuravy of .35, heavily armored and 425 mm of perimum ammo

wake_the_move-p #16 Posted 01 May 2020 - 10:28 AM

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View PostV4nquished79, on 30 April 2020 - 08:31 AM, said:

Turn back the shell velocity and reverse speed of Grille 15.

 

And the gun depression, please.

XGR369er #17 Posted 01 May 2020 - 07:28 PM

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View Posttokyobatman, on 26 April 2020 - 03:22 PM, said:

I like your changes, but would prefer the Kranvagn, stay a four shot tank.  It does need some changes,  but leave the loadout the same.. imo

 

I personally would like to see the pen go up if they aren't gonna change anything else.  I find the 120 is just sub par for what you have to face and the heat round bounce off so much because everything is slanted and spaced.  I gave up on this tank after awhile.

D1AVOLUS #18 Posted 03 May 2020 - 01:11 PM

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Its also time to "rebalance" the Arty like PC Version it did (2017!!!). Stop this ONE SHOTs from Artys!

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Haukkis-x #19 Posted 04 May 2020 - 09:57 AM

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View Postwake_the_move, on 01 May 2020 - 11:28 AM, said:

 

And the gun depression, please.

Grille 15 still has 8 degrees, like it always had. It was nerfed to 7 degrees on PC but not here :)



wake_the_move-p #20 Posted 04 May 2020 - 10:55 AM

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View PostHaukkis, on 04 May 2020 - 09:57 AM, said:

Grille 15 still has 8 degrees, like it always had. It was nerfed to 7 degrees on PC but not here :)

 

Why was it nerfed in the first place? It never has been outstanding after all.

Edited by wake_the_move, 04 May 2020 - 10:55 AM.






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