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Let's talk about tanks - Waffentrager auf E 100 UPDATE!

E100 AMX 30 B UPDATE developer discussions

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RaiBOT01-x #1 Posted 04 May 2020 - 04:36 PM

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Hey everyone!

 

My name is Jeff Gregg, and I am the Lead Designer on World of Tanks Valor.  Welcome back to "Lets talk about tanks! Waffenträger auf E 100 edition" THE UPDATE!

As a reminder, the goal was to highlight specific tanks, one at a time, and really dig down into what makes them tick, how they are being used, and how approaches may be taken to improve them if necessary.

 

Lets see how our changes to the Waffenträger auf E 100.

 

What we did

As a reminder: the following was done to this tank:

  • For the 12,8 cm Kanone L/61
    • Reduced clip size from 6 to 4
    • Decreased the reload from 60 to 48
    • This changed the DPM from ~ 2,878 to ~ 2,488
    • This changed the Burst Damage from ~ 3,360 to ~ 2,240
  • For the 15 cm Pak L/38
    • Increased the clip rate from 20 to 30
    • Decreased the clip size from 4 to 3
    • Decreased the reload from 50 to 40
    • This changed the DPM from ~ 3,052 to ~ 3,068 (marginal increase)
    • This changed the Burst Damage from ~ 3,000 to ~ 2,250

Read the full in-depth article by Jeff Gregg, Lead Designer, in the dedicated Forum Thread: 

 

Results

 

Lets take a look at what occurred.

All data from below is from Random Battle from April 22nd (first full day of changes) till April 30th

 

NOTE: We ran the loaded dice event this same week. (Damage RNG is +/-10% and Pen RNG is 0%)

Stat % or # Desc
Battles 100,533

Usage of this tank rose enough for me to believe you all took notice and wanted to check the change out.

~11,170 battles a day (up from ~ 8,450 a day)

  • 58,054 in 1st package ~58% of battles (was 87% before)
  • 42,479 in 2nd package ~ 42% of battles (was 13% before) 

Win Rate 48.96%

Win rate dropped for the stock package and rose for the upgrade package. Both were expected. The stock package's drop was a bit more than we anticipated to be honest and is worth watching, but the results are acceptable.

  • 48.30% for 1st package (down from 50.72% but acceptable)
  • 49.85% for 2nd package (up from 46.79% to a respectable %!)

Popularity Graph N/A

Mostly the same popularity with (perhaps) a bit more interest from our skilled tankers.

Previous

Current

Skill Graph N/A

No real change occurred with skill. Which is good. This means that the changes weren't influenced by the player's skill for our edits.

Previous

 

Current

Accuracy 74.72%

Accuracy dropped a VERY SMALL amount for the stock gun and went up for the upgrade.

  • 75.89% for 1st package (down a smidge from 76.49%)
  • 72.91% for 2nd package (up from 70.45%)

Pen 50.40%

Penetration went up marginally for the stock gun. The upgrade gun's pen got a nice boost, perhaps from the additional use.

  • 52.12% for 1st package (up from 51.88%)
  • 47.76% for 2nd package (up from 44.51%)

Damage per Hit 362.7

Damage results for the guns are about what we expected.

  • 339.1 for 1st package (down from 367.57)
  • 400.2 for 2nd package (up from 335.72)

Damage per Penning Hit 537.7

Damage when penetrating is demonstrably different and in line with the changes.

  • 493.7 for 1st package (down from 579.93)
  • 611.0 for 2nd package (up from 492.03)

Damage Per Battle 1,998

And, due to the damage per pen, the average output of damage per battle is also changed (and almost identical on average)

  • 1,996 for 1st package (down from 2,251)
  • 2,013 for 2nd package (up from 1,648)

Survival 30.40%

The stock tank's survival dropped a bit, but the upgrade package got a very nice 4% bump in survival to be slightly more likely to live.

  • 30.15% for 1st package (down from 32.02%)
  • 30.73% for 2nd package (up from 26.41%)

Lifespan 4min 57s

Lifespan dropped for both. Now at first blush, this shorter lifespan + the higher chance of survival may melt one's brain.

Its hard to say objectively, but I think this might be due to tanks standing their ground and shortening battles. 

  • 4min 58s for 1st package (down from 6min 6s)
  • 4min 55s for 2nd package (down from 5min 33s)

 

Action Items and Next Steps:

These changes are good and delivering. As with all the tanks in the game, we will continue to monitor this vehicle's performance. But I think its safe to say these changes are going to stick at least for the foreseeable future.

 

Thanks and see you on the battlefield!

 

-CHUJI


Edited by RaiBOT01, 08 May 2020 - 02:13 PM.

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BrogueOne-p #2 Posted 11 May 2020 - 01:19 PM

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Still a tank you don’t want to meet alone in a dark alley! Lol!

LacqueredBacon-x #3 Posted 11 May 2020 - 02:27 PM

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I would say the survival time is related to the reduced reload.  Previously, you would have to run and hide for a minute before returning to the battle.  Now, the waffle is part of the battle earlier and more often.


 


RaiBOT01-x #4 Posted 11 May 2020 - 02:43 PM

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Bump

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Tempest fox3-x #5 Posted 11 May 2020 - 05:29 PM

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View PostLacqueredBacon, on 11 May 2020 - 02:27 PM, said:

I would say the survival time is related to the reduced reload.  Previously, you would have to run and hide for a minute before returning to the battle.  Now, the waffle is part of the battle earlier and more often.

 

More active participation in the fight. More damage but higher risk of death if you make a mistake. 


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Spike1958-p #6 Posted 11 May 2020 - 07:05 PM

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I would think to be statistically valid, only results from a non-Loaded Dice week would be acceptable, unless the stats that were used to justify the changes were also from a Loaded Dice week.

How can you use stats from a week where the random pen is now non existent and the damage results are narrowed, unless you assume that it all mushes out in the wash, but in that case, why do players get so upset when there is a loaded dice event.

 

If the results of the changes were to make non-WE100 players happy, then I guess it succeeded. Reduced damage and reduced life span. If you are a WE100 player, I would think those changes changes would be upsetting.

I also find it funny that the pen went up and it was attributed to more use. This is a joke statistically. Either there is a meaningful example size or there isn't. The average damage and pen of any gun in the entire game is not dependant on usage, except for getting a meaningful stat size. If the pen of the upgrade gun went up because more people are playing it, then the reason for making the changes is bogus.



MaxChaos24-x #7 Posted 11 May 2020 - 07:13 PM

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View PostSpike1958, on 11 May 2020 - 03:05 PM, said:

I would think to be statistically valid, only results from a non-Loaded Dice week would be acceptable, unless the stats that were used to justify the changes were also from a Loaded Dice week.

How can you use stats from a week where the random pen is now non existent and the damage results are narrowed, unless you assume that it all mushes out in the wash, but in that case, why do players get so upset when there is a loaded dice event.

 

If the results of the changes were to make non-WE100 players happy, then I guess it succeeded. Reduced damage and reduced life span. If you are a WE100 player, I would think those changes changes would be upsetting.

I also find it funny that the pen went up and it was attributed to more use. This is a joke statistically. Either there is a meaningful example size or there isn't. The average damage and pen of any gun in the entire game is not dependant on usage, except for getting a meaningful stat size. If the pen of the upgrade gun went up because more people are playing it, then the reason for making the changes is bogus.

 

Hello, the usage does influence things like that. If more people who know where to aim start using a tank, than it's penetration % can go up due to the knowledge of the user playing it (shooting weak spots). It's important to not look at one thing but look at them all to see how one parameter can influence other parameters. It might not always be clear on how something affects something else, but everything has some type of impact on something else. :honoring:

natedaishmaster-x #8 Posted 11 May 2020 - 09:31 PM

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@Max: It looks like the damage per hit/pen were mixed up in the data between the packages. The old value for the 1st package was 580 which is more than the average damage of the gun which is all but impossible statistically.

 

View PostSpike1958, on 11 May 2020 - 11:05 AM, said:

I would think to be statistically valid, only results from a non-Loaded Dice week would be acceptable, unless the stats that were used to justify the changes were also from a Loaded Dice week.

How can you use stats from a week where the random pen is now non existent and the damage results are narrowed, unless you assume that it all mushes out in the wash, but in that case, why do players get so upset when there is a loaded dice event.

 

If the results of the changes were to make non-WE100 players happy, then I guess it succeeded. Reduced damage and reduced life span. If you are a WE100 player, I would think those changes changes would be upsetting.

I also find it funny that the pen went up and it was attributed to more use. This is a joke statistically. Either there is a meaningful example size or there isn't. The average damage and pen of any gun in the entire game is not dependant on usage, except for getting a meaningful stat size. If the pen of the upgrade gun went up because more people are playing it, then the reason for making the changes is bogus.

 

I personally prefer loaded dice, it is much more consistent from a damage perspective and I don't notice a difference from a penetration perspective. The WTE100 got a buff overall but the smaller gun got nerfed. Several of my clanmates prefer it with the big gun now. I'm just happy that they got rid of the 3360 damage crutch that most people who played the tank relied on in place of skill


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Zorin117-x #9 Posted 11 May 2020 - 10:47 PM

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Good to see follow articles of the same level of depth. As for the waffle, I was hoping for a test with an auto-reloader system if this change didn't work. (Or even if it did I suppose)

BrogueOne-p #10 Posted 12 May 2020 - 01:39 AM

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View PostZorin117, on 11 May 2020 - 10:47 PM, said:

Good to see follow articles of the same level of depth. As for the waffle, I was hoping for a test with an auto-reloader system if this change didn't work. (Or even if it did I suppose)

Fundamentally changing the underlying mechanics of the tank would seriously damage player relations.... not that it wouldn’t be interesting to have an auto-re-loading Tier X TD, but the Italian auto-re-loaders don’t exactly have that “fun factor” because of how they were balanced for Console.  They scrapped an auto-re-loading IS3-A because it wouldn’t be at all fun as such.  Think about the Italians and then think about applying that(from WG’s perspective) and an auto-reloading WafflE100 would be absolutely unplayable. 



Vampire_Izumi-p #11 Posted 12 May 2020 - 02:10 AM

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View PostBrogueOne, on 12 May 2020 - 10:39 AM, said:

Fundamentally changing the underlying mechanics of the tank would seriously damage player relations.... not that it wouldn’t be interesting to have an auto-re-loading Tier X TD, but the Italian auto-re-loaders don’t exactly have that “fun factor” because of how they were balanced for Console.  They scrapped an auto-re-loading IS3-A because it wouldn’t be at all fun as such.  Think about the Italians and then think about applying that(from WG’s perspective) and an auto-reloading WafflE100 would be absolutely unplayable. 

 

ya it would be insanely broken in every way :trollface:

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BelcebuTeMea #12 Posted 12 May 2020 - 04:26 AM

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I feel cheated. I dedicated and put money, to buy premium days, to get WT-E100 now this man comes and puts four bullets, I feel cheated and I wish him cancer to celebrate. You cannot laugh at people themselves.

LorencilloDG-p #13 Posted 12 May 2020 - 06:35 AM

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 I believe it is not fair to modify a level X tank.
I spent money on this...

Edited by LorencilloDG, 12 May 2020 - 06:37 AM.


PANDoGGA-x #14 Posted 12 May 2020 - 07:42 AM

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ok


Lone Wolf 4750 #15 Posted 12 May 2020 - 08:50 AM

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Another cancer for this game from U.S.A..... this time it's called Jeff Gregg.

So Thanks Wargaming U.S.A. and thanks Jeff Gregg for have RUINED, once time again, a tank that was wonderful!


WG has ruined the Strv 103B, the Batchat, the E100 and many other tanks during these years ... now you have also ruined this wonderful tank.

There was never once that you make a right one.
ONE!!!

The only thing you are able to do is to take strong tanks, even if they are very difficult to play, and give them a nice nerf to satisfy all those noobs who write  you crying because they have been destroyed in a few seconds when a good player uses these tanks.

Congratulations once again wargaming, keep it up.
Continue to meet the demands of the crying babies, so instead of stimulating them to improve in playing you will keep them at the actual low levels
And it's not a secret that the level of play on WOT has been going down since many months, and all the best players are leaving this game.
 

And the fact that the reloading time decreases makes this tank easier for noobs only.
Because managing a full minute of recharge was one of the most difficult things in the game that only good players could do.

Anyone who knows how to play this tank well knows that it is an ambush tank, not a sniper one!.
And once it turns out it has to do as much damage as possible because it is fragile as a piece of paper, very difficult to hide and is spotted from far away.

The only strong point of thistanks was the possibility of destroying every full life enemy tank with a clip.
you have ruined it !!

You have decreased the firepower without increasing the camo or armor
 

An FV4005 is able to do the exact same damage as the current WY AUF E100 (about 2000 dmg), remaining only a couple of seconds uncovered and being much more easily hidden.

The WT AUF E100 must remain uncovered for at least 6 seconds to discharge the entire clip and do the same damage as an FV4005
Godd balancement and nerf! Nice choice.
.

Thanks to you, the WT AUF E100 is yet another tank that I now stop playing.

Continue to create new useless premimum (and many times ridicoluos) tanks
Continue to nerf the most beautiful tanks of the game
Continue to close the ways to climb mountains and hilss to reach special positions
Continue to RUIN THIS GAME.

 

All those who in these pages have enjoyed these changes or are repressed players who are punctually destroyed by those who are good with WT AUFf, or have never played / knew how to play a WT Auf.

There will never be anyone good with this tank, who loves it and knows how to use it in a lethal way without campering, who will support this terrible nerf.

 

However it is useless to talk about it, as much wargaming does what it likes without ever listening to the players ... as it has always done.
The damage has been done, and it will not retrace its steps.
This modification was made simply to satisfy all the complaints of the child and noobs who found themselves destroyed when they encountered a WT Auf E100 that emptied the entire clip on them!
Wargaming has long been known for this way of acting.
The main objective is not to improve the game, but to satisfy the complaints of the unable noobs, who are the ones who buy premium tanks and pay ...

After all this is an industry isn't it?
The aim is to earn, even at the cost of ruining the game.

 

Before the E100 was too hard ... and now si made of glass.
Then the batchat was too strong, and now it has lengthened the recharge.
Then the Strv 103B fired too quickly ... and now it has lengthened the reload and reduced the camo.
Then the FV215b 183 was too strong, and now it has lowered the damage from the bullets ...
Then the children complained that someone very good knew how to climb the mountains and reach strategic places ... and WG closed the passages by putting invisible walls or rocks.
I could go on for hours ....
But it would be useless because we all know how things are.

 

Returning to the WT AUf, those who loves that tank will stop playing it and will sell it.
Those who were unable to use it and manage a 1 minute recharge will now try to play it again.

Well, we'll see the stats what they say.
Time will speak ...
As for me, I stopped playing it.
And I'm very sorry because it was my favorite tank and I was going to get the 3rd mark.

And I'm really feel cheated couse I spent a lot of money and time to get and rank the WT AUF E100....
But it's usual for wargaming to nerf tanks as the many times did with PREMIUM TANKS, buyed and payed by players!

 


Edited by Lone Wolf 4750, 12 May 2020 - 09:51 AM.


Derekthetree-x #16 Posted 12 May 2020 - 10:37 AM

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@lone wolf. Just because a tank has always been a certain way, doesn't mean it isn't broken

 

The waffle is all the extremes so impossible to balance and should really be removed completely, as per PC.

A 2250 clip is more than enough, and can be re-engage much more often.

 

And removing game breaking boosting locations?  That can only be a good thing as it stops one team/person having an unwarranted advantage



Vampire_Izumi-p #17 Posted 12 May 2020 - 10:38 AM

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NVM i somehow miss read. 

 

Edited by Vampire_Izumi, 12 May 2020 - 10:39 AM.

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R35T NO MORE-x #18 Posted 12 May 2020 - 11:22 AM

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Some of you need to calm down. The Waffle was broken. Now it is less broken. Think yourselves lucky that it still exists, on PC it got removed. Wishing cancer on people because they are trying to balance a tank that's been dodgy since it arrived? Grow up.

 

The E100 hasn't been nerfed either. It got buffed a while ago. 

 

Thanks for the update WG. I'm liking this new communication. 


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killer etzi0-x #19 Posted 12 May 2020 - 11:29 AM

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View PostR35T NO MORE, on 12 May 2020 - 05:22 AM, said:

Some of you need to calm down. The Waffle was broken. Now it is less broken. Think yourselves lucky that it still exists, on PC it got removed. Wishing cancer on people because they are trying to balance a tank that's been dodgy since it arrived? Grow up.

 

The E100 hasn't been nerfed either. It got buffed a while ago. 

 

Thanks for the update WG. I'm liking this new communication. 

Trolls posting from the protection of Mom and Dad's basement. 

 

Hopefully the mods will deal with him. 


Edited by killer etzi0, 12 May 2020 - 11:30 AM.

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xllMoLoToVllx #20 Posted 12 May 2020 - 12:21 PM

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View PostLone Wolf 4750, on 12 May 2020 - 02:50 AM, said:

Another cancer for this game from U.S.A..... this time it's called Jeff Gregg.

So Thanks Wargaming U.S.A. and thanks Jeff Gregg for have RUINED, once time again, a tank that was wonderful!


WG has ruined the Strv 103B, the Batchat, the E100 and many other tanks during these years ... now you have also ruined this wonderful tank.

There was never once that you make a right one.
ONE!!!

The only thing you are able to do is to take strong tanks, even if they are very difficult to play, and give them a nice nerf to satisfy all those noobs who write  you crying because they have been destroyed in a few seconds when a good player uses these tanks.

Congratulations once again wargaming, keep it up.
Continue to meet the demands of the crying babies, so instead of stimulating them to improve in playing you will keep them at the actual low levels
And it's not a secret that the level of play on WOT has been going down since many months, and all the best players are leaving this game.
 

And the fact that the reloading time decreases makes this tank easier for noobs only.
Because managing a full minute of recharge was one of the most difficult things in the game that only good players could do.

Anyone who knows how to play this tank well knows that it is an ambush tank, not a sniper one!.
And once it turns out it has to do as much damage as possible because it is fragile as a piece of paper, very difficult to hide and is spotted from far away.

The only strong point of thistanks was the possibility of destroying every full life enemy tank with a clip.
you have ruined it !!

You have decreased the firepower without increasing the camo or armor
 

An FV4005 is able to do the exact same damage as the current WY AUF E100 (about 2000 dmg), remaining only a couple of seconds uncovered and being much more easily hidden.

The WT AUF E100 must remain uncovered for at least 6 seconds to discharge the entire clip and do the same damage as an FV4005
Godd balancement and nerf! Nice choice.
.

Thanks to you, the WT AUF E100 is yet another tank that I now stop playing.

Continue to create new useless premimum (and many times ridicoluos) tanks
Continue to nerf the most beautiful tanks of the game
Continue to close the ways to climb mountains and hilss to reach special positions
Continue to RUIN THIS GAME.

 

All those who in these pages have enjoyed these changes or are repressed players who are punctually destroyed by those who are good with WT AUFf, or have never played / knew how to play a WT Auf.

There will never be anyone good with this tank, who loves it and knows how to use it in a lethal way without campering, who will support this terrible nerf.

 

However it is useless to talk about it, as much wargaming does what it likes without ever listening to the players ... as it has always done.
The damage has been done, and it will not retrace its steps.
This modification was made simply to satisfy all the complaints of the child and noobs who found themselves destroyed when they encountered a WT Auf E100 that emptied the entire clip on them!
Wargaming has long been known for this way of acting.
The main objective is not to improve the game, but to satisfy the complaints of the unable noobs, who are the ones who buy premium tanks and pay ...

After all this is an industry isn't it?
The aim is to earn, even at the cost of ruining the game.

 

Before the E100 was too hard ... and now si made of glass.
Then the batchat was too strong, and now it has lengthened the recharge.
Then the Strv 103B fired too quickly ... and now it has lengthened the reload and reduced the camo.
Then the FV215b 183 was too strong, and now it has lowered the damage from the bullets ...
Then the children complained that someone very good knew how to climb the mountains and reach strategic places ... and WG closed the passages by putting invisible walls or rocks.
I could go on for hours ....
But it would be useless because we all know how things are.

 

Returning to the WT AUf, those who loves that tank will stop playing it and will sell it.
Those who were unable to use it and manage a 1 minute recharge will now try to play it again.

Well, we'll see the stats what they say.
Time will speak ...
As for me, I stopped playing it.
And I'm very sorry because it was my favorite tank and I was going to get the 3rd mark.

And I'm really feel cheated couse I spent a lot of money and time to get and rank the WT AUF E100....
But it's usual for wargaming to nerf tanks as the many times did with PREMIUM TANKS, buyed and payed by players!

 

 

First. give him a shot of tequila for telling the truth
second. I do not know who is the culprit of all these senseless nerfs so I will only assume as WG the only one responsible for their bad decisions.
Third, I stopped using the WT E100 from the nerff of vision, which affected all TDs (hironically there is only 1 TD in the entire game that did not suffer that and is of the same line and is compensated by the fact that everyone chooses for using the 15cm in this small tier V with a large cannon, which is a mistake, I hope you know which one I am talking about (I love it).
I honestly went back to it with this "change" I opted for the 15 cm caliber which is very comfortable but I have not reached those glories of 8k, 9k damage, currently only 6k, 7k. I can't reach shooting just 2 or 3 drums shots.
fourth. I love the game. It is the game that I have been playing for more hours. but these unexpected nerffs hurt.
 AMX CDC, M56 Scorpion, STB-1, TVP 50/51 (which does not have its original 23 second recharge yet), Maus, Type 5Heavy, Progetto line, AMX Chaffee, K-91, WZ 131 and many more tanks than even before being introduced to the console, too much hatred of WG resisted and others were completely shattered.
fifth. WG Before giving away a tank please do a study on how this will break matchmaking or not. I still haven't forgotten the mess with the Absolution.
sixth. Limit premium ammo in games, make players lazy by no longer strategizing and only shooting premium.

Edited by xllMoLoToVllx, 12 May 2020 - 12:30 PM.

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