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Let's talk about tanks - Chisel


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RaiBOT01-x #1 Posted 11 May 2020 - 06:18 PM

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Hey everyone!

 

My name is Jeff Gregg, and I am the Lead Designer on World of Tanks Mercenaries.

Welcome to "Let's talk about tanks! Chisel edition".

The goal is to highlight specific tanks, one at a time, and really dig down into what makes them tick, how they are being used, and how approaches may be taken to improve them if necessary.

As you read you will see a lot of charts and data. All of this data compares the tank to every other tank of its tier over a sixty-day period. All data is pulled from Random Battles only.

This article focused on the Chisel. Let's get started.

 

Battles and Popularity

A Tier X Mercenary Medium, the Chisel enters battle armed with a 120 mm Tank Gun L11A1.

The vehicle resides in the mid-range of battles per day when compared to all other tier X vehicles:

So how is this tank doing with these players? Is it dominating? Is it suffering? According to the data, it is one of the best tier X tanks in the game and wins at ~ 54%:

Let's take a deeper look into win rate. An average of win/loss doesn't tell us as much as some may think. As always, we should do is evaluate WHO is using this tank when it comes to skill.

Below we see a grey curve (representing the skill of ALL players) and a blue curve (representing the skill of the players using this tank). The higher the curve, the more players at that skill level are using the tank. We can see that most players are right in the middle / are usually successful at ~ 50% win/loss. The lower the skill and the higher the skill, the fewer the players.

Now we might ask: "there are players with 100% win rate?!" or "there are players with 0% win rate?!" Those are likely players that played once in this tank and won or lost and then stopped. Super low occurrence outliers.

 

The Chisel is interesting. It is significantly more attractive to better players and is used more by said tankers. We need to dig more as this could be a reason the tank does so well; skill of users influences the tank's stats.

Let's look at the tank's win/loss compared to skill. In the below picture we see two lines, one that represents the entire population's win/loss and another that represents this tank's win/loss.

The Chisel performs better for all players at all skill levels. See the blue line above the grey line? The blue line is the Chisel, where the grey line is all tier X tanks. So even though the Chisel is being used by higher skilled players in general, it benefits any player that has it and uses it in battle:

 

Weapons

Let's keep looking and focus on the weapon (the 120 mm Tank Gun L11A1)

Accuracy is fine. Basically in the middle of the pack of the non-SPG tanks for tier X:

Penetration is also good; right in the middle of the tier X pack (lower pen are from HE / explosive rounds, higher pen are typically TDs or other accurate, hard-hitting tanks):

Damage per shots that hit is actually on the lower end (super high numbers in the graph below are the tier X SPGs):

Damage per shot that hits AND penetrates is also lower (super high numbers in the graph below are the tier X SPGs):

Damage per battle is a good clue. The Chisel is near the top of the tier X grouping, suggesting that it is shooting lots of those penning low damage shells quite a bit. (cumulative damage for all attacks in a battle):

 

Survival, etc.

Let's keep looking at other stats.

How often does this tank survive a match? Turns out the survival seems fine and (if anything) is a bit on the lower end of the tier X tanks.

How long does the tank live for in a match? Usually about 4min and 30seconds; near the bottom of the tier X lifetime

How far does this tank move? Quite a bit actually. Not up in the super-speedy light tank clump, but it does move more than your average tier X tank:

How much damage does it usually block? A decent amount, but not significant:

Let's take a look at this vehicle's spotting and assist capability:

Radio Damage: This is damage that is caused by other allied tanks due to the Chisel's spotting & relaying info (assist damage). It's actually almost the best non-light / scout tier X.

While this doesn't land the Chisel more kills, it does help explain why having a Chisel on your team will help you win more often:

Track Damage: This is damage that is caused by other allied tanks due to the Chisel's tracking a foe (i.e. Chisel tracks an enemy and a different vehicle does damage to said tracked foe).

The  Chisel does do better than average here, but not terribly so. Also, note the larger variance day-to-day in all tanks compared to the Chisel. This tank seems more consistent re: track assist damage:

 

Conclusions

We have analyzed numerical data on this tank.

We see that players of all skill levels use this tank, but higher skill players are a bit more likely to drive this into battle.

 

Action Items
Based on this we plan on doing the following:

  • Reduce the view range from 420 to 400 to try to counter the unusually high spotting / radio assist damage
  • Increase the reload from 9 to 9.5 to lower the DPM and average damage per battle

 

The above changes will take place on May 19th.

 

In order to measure the impact of these changes once they are committed, we need at least 5,000 battles in the tank(s) to have enough data. Once we have that amount of info, we will report back here on what the results were and (if necessary) what the next steps will be.

 

If you have feedback about this process or have further questions, reach out! Stay tuned here for results of the test and for what the next tank we focus on is.

 

See you on the battlefield!


Edited by MaxChaos24, 18 May 2020 - 01:53 PM.

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MaxChaos24-x #2 Posted 18 May 2020 - 01:55 PM

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Bump

Restless_Vermin #3 Posted 18 May 2020 - 02:00 PM

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Absolute rubbish

Take all mercs tanks out the game and put them in WOT Console Under 5’s edition! 



Maximos92-x #4 Posted 18 May 2020 - 02:16 PM

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Welcome change, for once reasonable nerfs and not total annihilation of the tank. Maybe we will see more of this on other Tier Xs that need it. 

mjc_is_back-p #5 Posted 18 May 2020 - 02:37 PM

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View PostMaximos92, on 18 May 2020 - 02:16 PM, said:

Welcome change, for once reasonable nerfs and not total annihilation of the tank. Maybe we will see more of this on other Tier Xs that need it. 

 

Agreed. A minor nerf that doesn't wreck the tank to be unplayable and undo the tedious contract grind.

The nerfs address the items that stand-out (spotting and damage), but don't harm the tank too much. 

 

Please re-look at the E50 again, this was an example of an over-nerf that DID wreck the vehicle.


Edited by o_Rock-Salt_o, 18 May 2020 - 02:37 PM.

 

 

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lira_mvp328-p #6 Posted 18 May 2020 - 02:41 PM

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View Posto_Rock-Salt_o, on 18 May 2020 - 02:37 PM, said:

 

Agreed. A minor nerf that doesn't wreck the tank to be unplayable and undo the tedious contract grind.

The nerfs address the items that stand-out (spotting and damage), but don't harm the tank too much. 

 

Please re-look at the E50 again, this was an example of an over-nerf that DID wreck the vehicle.

 

Agreed, the Chisel nerf is welcomed but  the German tech tree needs some love too

R35T NO MORE-x #7 Posted 18 May 2020 - 02:52 PM

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Looks good to me. This new communication is really great to see. 

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KilledByPing-p #8 Posted 18 May 2020 - 04:59 PM

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-20m view range is too much.

Down to 410 would be just fine.



MrWiggles24 #9 Posted 18 May 2020 - 04:59 PM

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Good change and good communication, keep it up.

Spartan2511-p #10 Posted 18 May 2020 - 05:06 PM

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Ive 600+ games in the Chisel and I dont think its ROF or VR is the issue. Mobility is where the Chisel shines. As much as I hate to say it, it does need a mobility nerf. Thats what its stats are higher. It can get to places quickly, spot, and get shots off and then relocate.

 

Undo the nerf you just did, slow it down compared to the AX, make it a pinch slower due to the spaced armor weight and see how that goes. That should bring it more inline with comparable tanks.



wake_the_move-p #11 Posted 18 May 2020 - 05:35 PM

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View PostKilledByPing, on 18 May 2020 - 04:59 PM, said:

-20m view range is too much.

Down to 410 would be just fine.

 

This! Also I wonder how the M60 is doing regarding assist damage. It also got 420 view range and is an even more agile tank. Will it receive the same nerfs then?

 

Honestly half the nerfs (410 meter view range, 9,25 sec reload) would have been sufficient enough already.


Edited by wake_the_move, 19 May 2020 - 09:04 AM.


ZiTN- #12 Posted 18 May 2020 - 05:44 PM

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In my opinion, the Chisel did not require a cannon nerve and a view range nerve which are the strong elements of this tank (with its mobility). We must not forget that it does nothing bounce, its shield is weak. Its precision while driving is catastrophic and its focus time of 2.3s actually seems actually much longer in reality. Without forgetting its penetration with gold which is very low compared to medium tanks and which it has in addition  APCR as gold (and as standard) ammo which loses penetration with distance.The fact that only good players do well with this tank does not justify a nerve. In this case, it is not just a tank that should be nerve but much more... 

Edited by ZiTN-, 18 May 2020 - 05:49 PM.

 

 

 


FusionStar287-x #13 Posted 18 May 2020 - 05:44 PM

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View Postwake_the_move, on 18 May 2020 - 12:35 PM, said:

 

 

This! Also I wonder how the M60 is doing regarding assist damage. It also got 420 damage and is an even more agile tank. Will it receive the same nerfs then?

 

Honestly half the nerfs (410 meter view range, 9,25 sec reload) would have been sufficient enough already.

The big difference between the two is that the M60 has a much worse camo rating and worse armor than the Chisel, so its view range is more important for the tank.


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wake_the_move-p #14 Posted 18 May 2020 - 05:47 PM

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View PostFusionStar287, on 18 May 2020 - 05:44 PM, said:

The big difference between the two is that the M60 has a much worse camo rating and worse armor than the Chisel, so its view range is more important for the tank.

 

M60 got better mobility (which has become „the better armor“ in this game)and way better gun handling. Further  the Chisel‘s camo is better, but not by much, and still mediocre at best. Since they‘re both mediums with a similar emphasis on view range is given.

Edited by wake_the_move, 18 May 2020 - 05:48 PM.


AnonymousHobo69-x #15 Posted 18 May 2020 - 05:55 PM

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Decent change, more like this. Data is pretty skewed here, to be honest, though. Look how few below average players even own the tank!
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FusionStar287-x #16 Posted 18 May 2020 - 05:59 PM

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View Postwake_the_move, on 18 May 2020 - 12:47 PM, said:

 

M60 got better mobility (which has become „the better armor“ in this game)and way better gun handling. Further  the Chisel‘s camo is better, but not by much, and still mediocre at best. Since they‘re both mediums with a similar emphasis on view range is given.

The M60 undoubtedly has a better gun, but while it does get better mobility it's only by a very small margin (3kph top speed and two degrees per second better traverse speeds). On the other hand, the Chisel's camo rating is significantly better (not all that great for a medium, but still useable) and it can actually reliably bounce shots when working ridgelines. That's why I say that the M60's view range matters more for its platform, since it's more dependent on keeping enemies at range if it wants to remain undetected and can't use its armor to brawl or work ridgelines at closer ranges as effectively as tanks like the Chisel and M48 can.


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wake_the_move-p #17 Posted 18 May 2020 - 06:05 PM

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View PostAnonymousHobo69, on 18 May 2020 - 05:55 PM, said:

Decent change, more like this. Data is pretty skewed here, to be honest, though. Look how few below average players even own the tank!

 

Actually no! There are more urgent matters than nerfing tanks. Like the Grille 15 or the Obj. 268 v4. or the K-91 for example. Buffing tanks in need > nerfing tanks considered being OP. That way the game might already face better balancing.

AnonymousHobo69-x #18 Posted 18 May 2020 - 06:07 PM

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View Postwake_the_move, on 18 May 2020 - 12:05 PM, said:

 

Actually no! There are more urgent matters than nerfing tanks. Like the Grille 15 or the Obj. 268 v4. or the K-91 for example. Buffing tanks in need > nerfing tanks considered being OP. That way the game might already face better balancing.

 

Yeah but those tanks aren't even played enough to be considered for balance changes. I've lost hope in that regard a loooooong time ago. Grille 15 is fine.
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wake_the_move-p #19 Posted 18 May 2020 - 06:10 PM

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View PostFusionStar287, on 18 May 2020 - 05:59 PM, said:

The M60 undoubtedly has a better gun, but while it does get better mobility it's only by a very small margin (3kph top speed and two degrees per second better traverse speeds). On the other hand, the Chisel's camo rating is significantly better (not all that great for a medium, but still useable) and it can actually reliably bounce shots when working ridgelines. That's why I say that the M60's view range matters more for its platform, since it's more dependent on keeping enemies at range if it wants to remain undetected and can't use its armor to brawl or work ridgelines at closer ranges as effectively as tanks like the Chisel and M48 can.

 

You forgot the slighty better p/w ratio. The M60 does not need to bounces shells, when it dodges them at mid range on a ridge line. And while the top speed is not better by far, it‘s actually the better traverse speeds going a long way. The Chisels camo rating is insufficent to stay hidden like a Sharpshooter, BC 25t or UDES 15/16, meaning that detected is detected, either in a Chisel, or an M60.

 

If they wanted to nerf the assist damage gain, they could have also just nerfed the radio range.


Edited by wake_the_move, 18 May 2020 - 06:13 PM.


wake_the_move-p #20 Posted 18 May 2020 - 06:11 PM

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View PostAnonymousHobo69, on 18 May 2020 - 06:07 PM, said:

 

Yeah but those tanks aren't even played enough to be considered for balance changes. I've lost hope in that regard a loooooong time ago. Grille 15 is fine.

 

All the more reason to look at them first. And Grille 15 is far from being fine.

Edited by wake_the_move, 18 May 2020 - 06:11 PM.





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