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Let's Talk about Tanks! - FV215b (183) Edition


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Poppyluv77-p #321 Posted 10 July 2020 - 10:03 PM

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View Postnatedaishmaster, on 10 July 2020 - 09:40 PM, said:

 

If you read carefully, all of those things that lack substance are things that you consistently do. The best part is that it went right over your head. Your level of education matters little to me, your ability to provide any concrete argument or even reasonable suggestion on how to do it better shows more about your intelligence than an education level ever could. Not only that, you're just kinda a troll who never adds anything to the conversation. You make noise but it's never constructive. That's my biggest problem with most people on the forum, they complain constantly but rarely provide any suggestion to help solve the problem

 

I see it differently. I see you are prone to resort to name calling, “troll” seems to be your favorite, whenever someone posts anything critical and or repeatedly in back and forth with you.

 

I have provided plenty of substance to explain my views in many different posts at the forum. I’ve offered numerous suggestions for improvements in many other posts. The typical response is nothing from anyone official, which doesn’t entirely surprise me. Another frequent response is that, “currently the size of the player base doesn’t support that” or something similar.

 

Ever wonder why “size of player base” doesn’t support is so often the case? Because the game isn’t growing. I’ve seen many state it may even be in decline. Perhaps it’s more in the middle, i.e., stagnant.

 

Usually when businesses or, in this case, games stagnate it’s not due to an overall high quality or excellent product offering. Although with games it may also be the case that the next best thing comes out to capture more attention in the market place. 

 

In any case, I see no need to continue this back and forth with you. You’re more of an apologist than me, I’m more of a critic than you. So be it. I feel very strongly that mm and Arty should be top priorities that have been neglected for far too long. I feel very strongly that Arty in most senses is even more broken than HESH and I and many many others have provided reasons we consider that to be the case. 

 

But look, if your ego demands that you get the last word, fine. Go ahead and post another brilliant retort to satisfy your sense of self. I’ll let it go at that and concede that you’re the debate winner if it makes you feel any better.

 

 



natedaishmaster-x #322 Posted 10 July 2020 - 10:30 PM

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View PostPoppyluv77, on 10 July 2020 - 02:03 PM, said:

 

I see it differently. I see you are prone to resort to name calling,  “troll” seems to be your favorite, whenever someone posts anything critical and or repeatedly. I have provided plenty of substance to explain my views in many different posts at the forum. I’ve offered numerous suggestions for improvements in many other posts. The typical response is nothing from anyone official, which doesn’t entirely surprise me. Another frequent response is that, “currently the size of the player base doesn’t support that” or something similar. Ever wonder why “size of player base” doesn’t support is so often the case? Because the game isn’t growing. I’ve seen many state it may even be in decline. Perhaps it’s more in the middle, i.e., stagnant.

 

Usually when businesses or, in this case, games stagnate it’s not due to an overall high quality or excellent product offering. Although with games it may also be the case that the next best thing comes out to capture more attention in the market place. 

 

In any case, I see no need to continue this back and forth with you. You’re more of an apologist than me, I’m more of a critic than you. So be it. I feel very strongly that mm and Arty should be top priorities that have been neglected for far too long. I feel very strongly that Arty in most senses is even more broken than HESH and I and many many others have provided reasons we consider that to be the case. 

 

But look, if your ego demands that you get the last word fine. Go ahead and post another brilliant retort to satisfy your sense of self. I’ll let it go at that and concede that you’re the debate winner if it makes you feel any better.

 

I'm for sure a bit of a troll but I do like calling out other trolls. I agree that arty is broken, though MM is pretty good for the most part. I do like the high and mighty routine though, really contrasts with your normal name calling. Super original


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Koncorde-x #323 Posted 11 July 2020 - 01:10 AM

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View PostMaxChaos24, on 04 June 2020 - 01:29 PM, said:

Hello, the data is displaying shots fired per battle, not shots fired per tank per battle. Generally, there is more than 1 FV215b (183) per battle.

  • I.E. If on average there are 2 FV215b (183) per battle with 11 HESH rounds fired per battle, that would be (11/2) = ~5.5 HESH rounds fired per tank.
  • If on average there are 3 FV215b (183) per battle, 11 HESH rounds fired per battle, that would be (11/3) = ~3.6 HESH rounds fired per tank. 

 

For item #4, you are forgetting that every tank it shoots/penetrates is not at full health. The majority of time, they can't use their full alpha potential as it requires the enemy to be full health. 

I hope that clarifies the data for you! :great:

 

Sorry have been a bit distracted to reply.

 

It clarifies where the raw is from, but then it leads into the issue of the conclusion still.

 

1. What is the actual number of shots fired on average then? Average damage is 850 or 790. Average damage per battle is 2k. This would infer players are scoring between two or three hits per match. The incredibly low accuracy of 68% (which put it above 3 unknown tanks looking at the chart) would therefore suggest the average shots fired is just 3.4... by giving more ammunition will more shots be fired, and will it improve pen % (I suspect not).

 

2. Why would kill shots lower the Death Stars average damage down on penetrating shots by -25% (I would expect a larger deviation in damage values more so than any other tank, so it will be interesting to see the E4's drop off)? No other tank in the data analysis has so far shown any significant drop off due to kill shots (and it would be there even if not so pronounced)

 

3. One of the biggest concerns of this tank was its one hit-a-bility, and its ability to hurt tanks even when failing to pen; so what was the functional proportion of damage done by the tanks different ammunition with pen shots vs non-pen shots (and what was the proportion of actual pens with the standard ammo)? i.e. did the AP bounce at a higher % than the HESH? Can we presume the actual "average damage" of non-pens is being affected by the bounced AP? Or was it just looking at HESH shots?

 

Also ask Greg to colour code his graph lines by vehicle type to make it easier to see where vehicles fit.

 



Poppyluv77-p #324 Posted 11 July 2020 - 05:20 PM

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View PostKoncorde, on 11 July 2020 - 01:10 AM, said

 

3. One of the biggest concerns of this tank was its one hit-a-bility, and its ability to hurt tanks even when failing to pen

 

 

Exact same concern has been said a million times about Arty. Crickets from the “development” team.

 

And Arty gets to do this without line of sight and without Targeted warning 

 

 



Ueter-x #325 Posted 11 July 2020 - 09:02 PM

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Wow this devolved.

zZGROGZz-x #326 Posted 11 July 2020 - 09:03 PM

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View PostUeter, on 11 July 2020 - 10:02 PM, said:

Wow this devolved.

 

As it often does in here. Not even official WG threads are immune from that.

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FFpriest-x #327 Posted 18 July 2020 - 01:53 PM

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View PostWarthog II, on 02 June 2020 - 01:29 AM, said:

 

More ammo though,  less chance to run out of ammo, more potential damage both 183's can deal.

 

No one ever ran out of ammo in a 4005. 

TsprinTs-x #328 Posted 12 August 2020 - 08:34 PM

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Wrong thrrad. Deleted

 



BWO Bert-x #329 Posted 04 September 2020 - 05:41 PM

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So when are we supposed to get the results?seems to be taking a little to long to get results in. Yall were able to make decisions real fast for the other tanks, don't see why its been almost 2 months to get the results

Elytre-p #330 Posted 10 September 2020 - 06:56 PM

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I know why we don't get the results, because they probably see now the 183 guns beeing kinda useless, Winrate dropping far below 50% and as you can see on other WoTC sites, both 183s are the worst Tier X TDs regarding the MoE stats. It wasnt good before, its worse now.

So the problem now is that they actually "should" undo their balancing, but likely hesitate to give the FVs their 1750 alpha HESH back, even though it is the right thing to do...

Beside from that, everybody here hating about the 183mm HESH, go inform yourself about the FV4005 Stage ll, it was designed to shoot HESH and ONLY HESH,

to make this tank "accurate", WG would have to eliminate the AP rounds completely from the 183s, you can argue what ever you like, but this is FACT.

 

Thinking about all that, a proposal to WG, how about this balancing: 

-Standart HESH with 260pen and 1750 alpha for ~5.000,-

-Premium HESH with 300 pen and 1650 alpha for ~10.000,-

-Special HESH with 130 pen and 1950 alpha for ~2.000,-

 

Anyway, i hope to finaly see some results and facts of the 183 "balancing"...



zZGROGZz-x #331 Posted 11 September 2020 - 07:11 AM

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View PostElytre-p, on 10 September 2020 - 07:56 PM, said:

I know why we don't get the results, because they probably see now the 183 guns beeing kinda useless, Winrate dropping far below 50% and as you can see on other WoTC sites, both 183s are the worst Tier X TDs regarding the MoE stats. It wasnt good before, its worse now.

So the problem now is that they actually "should" undo their balancing, but likely hesitate to give the FVs their 1750 alpha HESH back, even though it is the right thing to do...

Beside from that, everybody here hating about the 183mm HESH, go inform yourself about the FV4005 Stage ll, it was designed to shoot HESH and ONLY HESH,

to make this tank "accurate", WG would have to eliminate the AP rounds completely from the 183s, you can argue what ever you like, but this is FACT.

 

Thinking about all that, a proposal to WG, how about this balancing: 

-Standart HESH with 260pen and 1750 alpha for ~5.000,-

-Premium HESH with 300 pen and 1650 alpha for ~10.000,-

-Special HESH with 130 pen and 1950 alpha for ~2.000,-

 

Anyway, i hope to finaly see some results and facts of the 183 "balancing"...

 

We haven’t had the results yet because WG have been busy with other things dude.

Look, I get the death star and poop barn were your favourite tanks, but you gotta stop beating that dead horse. It ain’t getting up again, so just drop it already. Sheesh.

 


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Ectoplastic goo-x #332 Posted 17 September 2020 - 07:32 PM

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what are the other things?    New Maps?

zZGROGZz-x #333 Posted 17 September 2020 - 09:39 PM

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View PostEctoplastic goo-x, on 17 September 2020 - 08:32 PM, said:

what are the other things?    New Maps?

 

Upgrading the graphics on existing maps, community designed map, etc.

So yeah, I’d say they probably working on a map or two. Amongst other things, like summer slam bugs, premium tanks, vision test that was announced, things like that, ya know what I mean?


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Mayhem AU-x #334 Posted 14 January 2021 - 01:51 PM

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Hello Jeff,

 

I'm a recently returned player so I'm having to adapt to a large number of game changes, and I'm a below average ability player, based on stats. Though I think more impatient and easily distracted is a better descriptor. 

 

Do I understand the rebalance yes some of it, but certainly not all. I understand the reduction to premium shells, after all they did all the damage and used almost exclusively.

 

What doesn't really make sense, so far at least is the following:

 

The extra ammunition storage, never really been an issue, so for me so not much of a gain. Did people often run out of ammo, the capacity gain wasn't really explained? I'd be lucky to fire a shot every minute or so and maybe get 4 or 5 shots out in an average game.

 

The tank has now lost its main weapon, which was hesitation, people would see you and back up, now they don't.

 

Also the machine is so expensive to run now, unless you win and contribute well this tank costs alot of silver to run, not sure if this is across the board in the tier, refer to previous comments about returning player and all that.

 

What stopped the reload time being reduced to offset the reduction in damage?

 

As you mentioned the tank absorbs damage almost like it enjoys the hits, as a player I don't enjoy that.

 

The tank doesn't really seem to have anything good about, the reload is slow, it's difficult to position and stands out with weak amour.

 

You mentioned the rebalance would be reviewed, what did you discover? You left the door open to ask this question, not me and mentioned specific criteria etc. so would really expect updates. Fingers crossed I haven't missed them in the thread.

 

Look forward to seeing the rebalance review, I certainly understand the motivation for the rebalance but it seems you could have turned an average tank that had exceptional moments to a below average tank with the most notable feature being how poor it is, in my opinion of course. As I get better using it I'm sure my opinion may change, but if anything my ability in this tank has reduced significantly.

 

All the best

 

 



SeeYou5uka-x #335 Posted 27 January 2021 - 07:34 AM

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Worst change ever ... Bad accuracy no buff to compensate ... 1750 alpha is all british tds had going for them after this change two pointless grinds ... I'll concede the pen at 275 needed a nerf . But not the damage ... Any player who bothers to play these since nerf just admitted to being a very dumb tanker




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