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Let's Talk about Tanks! - Object 268 version 4 Edition


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MaxChaos24-x #1 Posted 22 May 2020 - 12:10 PM

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POSTED ON BEHALF OF JEFF GREGG

Hey everyone!

My name is Jeff Gregg, and I am the Lead Designer on World of Tanks Valor.

Welcome to "Let's talk about tanks! Object 268 Version 4 edition".

The goal is to highlight specific tanks, one at a time, and really dig down into what makes them tick, how they are being used, and how approaches may be taken to improve them if necessary.

As you read you will see a lot of charts and data. All of this data compares the tank to every other tank of its tier over a sixty-day period. All data is pulled from Random Battles only.

This article focused on the Object 268 Version 4. Let's get started.

Battles and Popularity

A Tier X USSR Tank Destroyer, the Object 268 Version 4 competes with its mighty 152 mm M-53S.

Out of all the Tier X TDs, this is used very little. It averages ~ 1k battles a day

So how is this tank doing with these players? Is it dominating? Is it suffering? According to the data, it is the 2nd best Tier X TD in the game and wins at ~ 53%. But the data is inconsistent day-by-day, see below:

Let's take a deeper look into win rate. An average of win/loss doesn't tell us as much as some may think. As always, we should do is evaluate WHO is using this tank when it comes to skill.

Below we see a grey curve (representing the skill of ALL players) and a blue curve (representing the skill of the players using this tank). The higher the curve, the more players at that skill level are using the tank. We can see that most players are right in the middle / are usually successful at ~ 50% win/loss. The lower the skill and the higher the skill, the fewer the players.

Now we might ask: "there are players with 100% win rate?!" or "there are players with 0% win rate?!" Those are likely players that played once in this tank and won or lost and then stopped. Super low occurrence outliers.

This tank seems to be less attractive to the players that lose more often, BUT not statistically more attractive to players that win more often. It's not popular with the less skilled and appears to have average popularity with the more skilled.

Let's look at the tank's win/loss compared to skill. In the below picture we see two lines, one that represents the entire population's win/loss and another that represents this tank's win/loss.

The Object 268 Version 4 performs better for all players at all skill levels, but only just. See the blue line above the grey line? The blue line is the Object 268 Version 4, where the grey line is all tier X tanks. So this tank appears to benefit any player that has it and uses it in battle (and the lower your skill, the more it benefits you):

Weapons

Let's keep looking and focus on the weapon (the 152 mm M-53S)

Accuracy is fine. Basically in the middle of the pack of the non-SPG tanks for tier X (biasing ever so slightly into the upper 1/3):

Penetration is also good; in the middle of the tier X pack but trending a bit lower. It's not low enough to worry about tho considering the variance earlier in the time period (lower pen are from HE / explosive rounds, higher pen are typically TDs or other accurate, hard-hitting tanks):

Damage per shots that hit is right in the middle of all the Tier X Tank Destroyers (super high numbers in the graph below are the tier X SPGs):

Damage per shot that hits AND penetrates is also right in the middle of all the Tier X Tank Destroyers (super high numbers in the graph below are the tier X SPGs):

Damage per battle... this tank has the worst damage output per battle of all tier X Tank Destroyers. Since the damage per shot seems acceptable, we should keep looking beyond the weapon.

Survival, etc.

Let's keep looking at other stats.

How often does this tank survive a match? On average the tank seems fine / in the upper third of TDs at ~ 35%, but look at that variance. Everything from ~ 28% to ~ 39%. It's not consistent.

How long does the tank live for in a match? Its more consistent than survival, and is usually about 5min and 8seconds; near the upper third of the tier X TD lifetime

How far does this tank move? It is one of the most stationary Tier X TDs and moves only slightly more than some SPGs:

How much damage does it usually block? A LOT. To put it in context, there are only two Tier X Heavy Tanks that beat this tank in terms of damage blocked per battle

Conclusions

We have analyzed numerical data on this tank.

The things that stand out the most are:

  1. This tank has an above 50% win rate
  2. This tank blocks a LOT of damage for a TD in its tier range
  3. This tank doesn't move as much as most other TDs in its tier range

Action Items

Based on this we plan on doing the following:

  • Decrease the armor on the front hull armor panel
    • Change 300mm to 260mm
    • This decreases the effective from ~ 340mm to ~294mm
    • This is still more armor than armored TDs, so this reduction is in line with other tanks
  • Increase its max speed
    • Forward goes from 26 to 40
    • Backward goes from 8 to 18
    • Much faster, but not as fast as the other USSR TD's since this has more armor (55kph, 48kph)

The above changes will take place on June 2nd.

In order to measure the impact of these changes once they are committed, we need at least 5,000 battles in the tank(s) to have enough data. Once we have that amount of info, we will report back here on what the results were and (if necessary) what the next steps will be.

If you have feedback about this process or have further questions, reach out! Stay tuned here for results of the test and for what the next tank we focus on is.

See you on the battlefield!



MaxChaos24-x #2 Posted 01 June 2020 - 10:51 AM

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The article is now Live.

vHD JOKERZ-x #3 Posted 01 June 2020 - 10:55 AM

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View PostMaxChaos24, on 01 June 2020 - 10:51 AM, said:

The article is now Live.

 

Max just gonna say the pictures in the article are incorrect. Just thought I'd let someone know as it currently shows the OBJ. 268, not the OBJ.268 V4 

Spoiler

 


Vampire_Izumi-p #4 Posted 01 June 2020 - 10:56 AM

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that armor nerf may hurt it, it lost a lot of armor.

 

hopefully that mobility buff will make up for it.

 

 

 

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MaxChaos24-x #5 Posted 01 June 2020 - 10:59 AM

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View PostvHD JOKERZ, on 01 June 2020 - 06:55 AM, said:

 

Max just gonna say the pictures in the article are incorrect. Just thought I'd let someone know as it currently shows the OBJ. 268, not the OBJ.268 V4 

 

Ah, the portal article. I'll let them know, thanks.:honoring: 

vHD JOKERZ-x #6 Posted 01 June 2020 - 11:03 AM

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View PostMaxChaos24, on 01 June 2020 - 10:59 AM, said:

 

Ah, the portal article. I'll let them know, thanks.:honoring: 

 

No problem, was reading it and went past the images. Was just like "Huh, wait a minute. Something seems off here"

Spoiler

 


FBPrime-x #7 Posted 01 June 2020 - 11:23 AM

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The top forward and reverse speed increase is nice.  But with the nerfed engine, the tank will still be quite sluggish.

Spoiler

 


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KilledByPing-p #8 Posted 01 June 2020 - 11:39 AM

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So now it can actually move, but enemy can load premium ammo and R1-R2 it with out any aiming. Just great. 

Vampire_Izumi-p #9 Posted 01 June 2020 - 11:40 AM

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View PostFBPrime, on 01 June 2020 - 08:23 PM, said:

The top forward and reverse speed increase is nice.  But with the nerfed engine, the tank will still be quite sluggish.

Spoiler

 

 

oh, so this is basically  a overall nerf

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Vampire_Izumi-p #10 Posted 01 June 2020 - 11:43 AM

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View PostMaxChaos24, on 01 June 2020 - 07:51 PM, said:

The article is now Live.

 

no point in buffing the top speed if its power to weight is awful.

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Lord Roadius-x #11 Posted 01 June 2020 - 12:42 PM

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Needs engine buff and chassis rotation buff. Top speed increase wont matter if it rarely touches it.

Koneko Da Best-x #12 Posted 01 June 2020 - 01:42 PM

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So wait you guys nerfed the flat part on the front hull that will now be an insta lol pen to all premium shells which everyone will inevitably spam at it knowing it's new weak point..... definitely wouldn't have made the armor change it only needed a speed buff by itself

Haukkis-x #13 Posted 01 June 2020 - 02:06 PM

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View PostKoneko Da Best, on 01 June 2020 - 02:42 PM, said:

So wait you guys nerfed the flat part on the front hull that will now be an insta lol pen to all premium shells which everyone will inevitably spam at it knowing it's new weak point..... definitely wouldn't have made the armor change it only needed a speed buff by itself

 

This. Why nerf the armor? All it needed was mobility buff... and while increased top and reverse will help, engine is still underpowered. Imo, horsepower should be buffed from 850 to 1100 or 1150.

Soundwave098-p #14 Posted 01 June 2020 - 02:35 PM

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Without a p/w ratio buff this mobility increase does not matter. Same with the armor nerfs, let's make it so easy to pen because armor in this game is rarely a thing anyways. Looking at pure averages is not helpful for real balance and looking at amount blocked without context doesn't mean anything either. The tank has a massive weak spot on it's top which is easily penned. That it is blocking a lot of damage means your players base doesn't realize it has that weak spot and just auto aim at it. Ill informed nerf and meaningless buff.

Vampire_Izumi-p #15 Posted 01 June 2020 - 02:47 PM

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View PostSoundwave098, on 01 June 2020 - 11:35 PM, said:

Without a p/w ratio buff this mobility increase does not matter. Same with the armor nerfs, let's make it so easy to pen because armor in this game is rarely a thing anyways. Looking at pure averages is not helpful for real balance and looking at amount blocked without context doesn't mean anything either. The tank has a massive weak spot on it's top which is easily penned. That it is blocking a lot of damage means your players base doesn't realize it has that weak spot and just auto aim at it. Ill informed nerf and meaningless buff.

 

that weakspot is extremely easy to hit.

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Soundwave098-p #16 Posted 01 June 2020 - 02:53 PM

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View PostVampire_Izumi, on 01 June 2020 - 02:47 PM, said:

 

that weakspot is extremely easy to hit.

 

Yup. Which is why it needs the mobility. Now that the rest of the tank is easily penned who cared about attempting to aim. I doubt Jeff played this tank or against it. Spreadsheet changes only, very disappointing. 

Elytre-p #17 Posted 01 June 2020 - 03:11 PM

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First off: i don't own any Tier X Russian TD.

Yh, for its really BAD statistics you take armor instead of adding some? mhm...

Beside from that, i don't get that thing with the 152mm russian guns alpha dmg:

 

ISU-152: 750

Obj.704: 750

Obj.268: 850

 

but then:

Obj.705A: 650

Obj.268-4: 650

 

ANY Tier VIII+ 150mm+ gun has at least 750 alpha, like the 60TP, E3/E4, china TDs, RhmBorsig, its big brothers and so on..

even tier VI KV-2 has 700 alpha... on tier VI... not tier X

 

So you are telling me a 17sec reload for 650 dmg is a good deal at tier X? hell no... and you guys really wonder why this tank is so rarely played?

Talking about 152mm guns, someone from WG-Team may explain this to me:

I get that stuff (speaking of tier X only) with the gun calibers:

105-122mm @ 390-440 dmg,

123-130mm @ 480-560 dmg,

150-155mm @ 650-850 dmg,

170/183mm @ 1000+dmg...

but why are the 152mm guns so diversed ? 152mm guns reach from 650 up to 850 dmg with nearly identical reload for no logic.

Just some fair comparsion:

Tank:      Obj.268-4-Obj.268

Reload:            17,7 -16,5

Alpha:               650-850

Accuracy:        0.42 - 0.33

Pen:      293/360/90303/395/90

 

So you gonna tell me what?

*Is there any chance we get the Obj.268-5 someday ? :):)



Crazyfatguy87 #18 Posted 01 June 2020 - 04:31 PM

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So you neft the only thing that was decent about the tank, gave it a buff to speed but not mobility and think that with weaker armer the same power to weight and traverse speeds and think yea this will make plays drive more knowing they have less armor but can go faster. Now the fact that the tank only has a slightly higher win rate compared to the people playing why would you nerf it? Cause it blocks too much damage seriously? It's an assault td, to be on the  front to block and deal damage that's it's role. Good Lord I mean I could see nerfing something about the tank if it had close to a 58-60% win rate across all the plays but it doesn't. It's the least played because it's the worst of the TDs. Why not try to see about buffing tanks instead of nerfing every tier 10 that is doing something too much. I mean most of the "updates" to the tanks you did were either half buffs, nerfs, or just completely pointless

Crazyfatguy87 #19 Posted 01 June 2020 - 04:32 PM

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Which reiterates one of my previous points in the fact that I'm pretty sure they dont even play their game when they come up with theaee reworks

SprungNickel427-x #20 Posted 01 June 2020 - 05:14 PM

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gun needs buff too compared to E4 E3 268 Hesh TDs etc. FVs hit for 500-600 without penetrating! Just HE. 650 with 18sec reload is a joke. I could deal with bad mobility, but once you got to the fight you got REKT! no dpm, and armor was only thing that allowed you to survive players who lack knowledge of weak spots. 

This buff is not enough relative. 1000 battles a week says it all. less driving than anything else other than SPG....53% win rate because team carries it and any enemies that finally fight it, are down to 650 HP and get killed! 

It's a sad tank. these buffs will not be enough. 






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