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Let's Talk about Tanks - AMX Foch (155) - Follow Up


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MaxChaos24-x #1 Posted 28 May 2020 - 01:05 PM

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POSTED ON BEHALF OF JEFF GREGG

Welcome

Hey everyone!

My name is Jeff Gregg, and I am the Lead Designer on World of Tanks Valor.

Welcome back to "Let's talk about tanks! AMX 50 Foch (155) edition".

As a reminder, the goal was to highlight specific tanks, one at a time, and really dig down into what makes them tick, how they are being used, and how approaches may be taken to improve them if necessary.

Let's see how our changes to the AMX 50 Foch (155) impacted the game:

What we did

As a reminder: the following was done to this tank:

  • Increase the Hull Armor in key panels by ~15%
    • Armor Panel 3: 40mm → 46mm
    • Armor Panel 11: 40mm → 46mm
    • Armor Panel 20: 50mm → 58mm

Results

Let's take a look at what occurred.

All data from below is from Random Battle from May 6th, 2020 (first full day of changes) till May 26th, 2020.

Here is a breakdown of what we saw:

  • Battles: 15,490
    • About 7,400 using the Stock package
    • About 8,000 using the upgraded package
    •  
  • Avg Win Rate: 51.92% (Up from the previous average of 50.6%)
    • 50.74% using the Stock package
    • 53.01 using the upgraded package
    •  
  • Avg Survival: 30.07% (Up from the previous average of 29%)
    • 29.97% using the Stock package
    • 30.16% using the upgraded package
    •  
  • Avg Lifespan: 4min 52s (Up from the previous 4min 48sec and is much more stable since the change.)
    • 4min 58s using the Stock package
    • 4min 45s using the upgraded package
    •  
  • Avg Damage blocked: 757 (Up from the previous average damage blocked of 729)
    • 730.5 using the Stock package
    • 783.5 using the upgraded package
    •  
  • Popularity after the change (brought a lot of curious pros to the table):
  • Win after the change (x-ref with skill) (REALLY beneficial with low-skill, but that may be an outlier as the rest is very much still even across the line):

 

Action Items and Next Steps:

We are making additional side armor edits to bring it in-line with the Tier 9 hull which is currently blocking an average of 809 damage. 

  • armor_3: 46 -> 70
  • armor_11: 46 -> 70
  • armor_20: 58 -> 80

We are also adjusting the yaw limits on the Stock gun to match the upgraded gun for better playability. 

  • 155 mm AC SA58
    • Yaw Limits: -6/6 -> -10/10

 

The above changes will go LIVE on June 16th.

We are going to continue to monitor the tank (especially the upgrade package) to see if it normalizes or trends OP. If the latter, we will continue to edit and communicate our decisions.

 

Thanks and see you on the battlefield!



MaxChaos24-x #2 Posted 11 June 2020 - 10:08 AM

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The article is now LIVE.

Vampire_Izumi-p #3 Posted 11 June 2020 - 10:25 AM

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:great:

i may actually grind this line. good job!


      A lie about a lie turns inside out upon itself. - Magane chikujoin   

Marks of Excellence: Tier V > Tier X in that order. 5678910


MrWiggles24 #4 Posted 11 June 2020 - 11:33 AM

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Nice, think I'll grind this tank out here in the near future. Keep up the good work guys.

BrownSuprize #5 Posted 11 June 2020 - 12:31 PM

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Nice. Honestly I think the reload needs a few seconds shaved off since the waffle now has nearly 18 seconds better reload I believe. The accuracy and aim time make the waffle gun better than the foch disbite the huge penitration difference. I bounce a lot more with my 155mm gun than I do with the waffle 155 gun

psmobius1-p #6 Posted 11 June 2020 - 01:55 PM

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Pretty large swing at those armor values, this should be interesting. I may have to brush the dust off and see how it does tonight. I know I already did that grind but honestly can't remember if I enjoyed it or not. 

John-berg1995-p #7 Posted 11 June 2020 - 06:23 PM

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Amazing! This is great!

FusionStar287-x #8 Posted 11 June 2020 - 09:01 PM

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Those are some awesome changes. Now the 155mm gun should be much more useable, and its even better side armor should make wiggling much safer as well. :great:

"My dear brothers, take note of this: Men should be quick to listen, slow to speak, and slow to become angry, for man's anger does not bring about the righteous life that God desires." ~ James 1: 19-20

 

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Haukkis-x #9 Posted 12 June 2020 - 02:16 AM

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So gun arc (yaw limits) will be finally buffed? Halleluja, finally!!! Thank you Wargaming! Now I can finally enjoy playing my Foch 155. Thank you so much, I'm happy now  :)

Cheetah1728-x #10 Posted 12 June 2020 - 08:30 AM

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Finally, thank you for doing something more than just 6 whole millimeters. This is going to completely improve my sanity of using the 155mm. Though I will say nailing a speeding light at 300+ while trying to traverse the hull and gun with its hilarious handling/limitations was probably one of the most satisfying things to pull off.

Brother Run #11 Posted 12 June 2020 - 02:36 PM

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increase reverse speed on this line?

TROCKS-x #12 Posted 15 June 2020 - 06:04 PM

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I couldn't understand how the armor values between the 2 tanks (tier 9 and 10) were so far off. I am very pleased to see this additional fix for the armor thickness on the sides for the tier 10. I haven't really tried the 155mm gun yet but with the additional yaw changes I am definitely going to try that as well. Thanks for continuing to look at this tank and make it fun and playable!

TancDeCurseRO-p #13 Posted 23 June 2020 - 12:28 PM

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100k xp off. Tier lX is very good. I can't wait for the 155mm. 2 marked it on Xbox 7 years ago. 

 

Edit


✭✭✭STB-1✭✭✭Object140✭✭✭Pz.Kpfw. VII✭✭✭FV215b✭✭✭Chieftain Mk.6✭✭✭60TP✭✭✭WZ-113G FT✭✭✭


TancDeCurseRO-p #14 Posted 24 June 2020 - 11:53 PM

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Foch 155 with the stock package is not very appealing to anybody because it takes ages for the reticle to shrink while maybe dealing 770dmg if the RNG is ok.

 

The 155mm needs gun handling buffs (aim time,

accuracy, tank movement dispersion...) or an increase in Alpha dmg to compensate with the humongous reticle. 


✭✭✭STB-1✭✭✭Object140✭✭✭Pz.Kpfw. VII✭✭✭FV215b✭✭✭Chieftain Mk.6✭✭✭60TP✭✭✭WZ-113G FT✭✭✭


Tizni79-x #15 Posted 25 June 2020 - 01:22 AM

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Imagine that much easier to get 5k people to play the foch than the tvp t 50/51... might tell an observant individual something about how well those biffs worked out....

TancDeCurseRO-p #16 Posted 27 June 2020 - 11:40 AM

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Right from the get-go I must say that, for some reason the tier X is a lot more sluggish than tier IX.

 

Then the 155 doesn't suit this tank at all, because the long reload doesn't justify the high alpha damage. 

The upgraded package is the only way to go. 


✭✭✭STB-1✭✭✭Object140✭✭✭Pz.Kpfw. VII✭✭✭FV215b✭✭✭Chieftain Mk.6✭✭✭60TP✭✭✭WZ-113G FT✭✭✭





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