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Let's Talk about Tanks - K-91 Edition


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MaxChaos24-x #1 Posted 04 June 2020 - 05:33 PM

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POSTED ON BEHALF OF JEFF GREGG

 

Hey everyone!

My name is Jeff Gregg, and I am the Lead Designer on World of Tanks Valor.

Welcome to "Let's talk about tanks! K-91 edition".

The goal is to highlight specific tanks, one at a time, and really dig down into what makes them tick, how they are being used, and how approaches may be taken to improve them if necessary.

As you read you will see a lot of charts and data. All of this data compares the tank to every other tank of its tier over a sixty-day period. All data is pulled from Random Battles only.

This article focused on the K-91: Portal Link for K-91. Let's get started.

All data is taken from Random Battle over a fixed 60 day period. Both the Xbox Live and PSN environments were used.

 

Battles and Popularity

The K-91

A Tier X USSR Medium, the K-91 relies on its 100 mm D-46T to take down foes.

The K-91 has the dubious honor of being the least used Tier X Medium in the game. It averages ~ 1k battles a day:

 

Its low usage doesn't seem to be hurting its average performance. It averages a ~52% win rate which is a bit high. That needs to be tempered with the inconsistent results, however. See the blue line below? See how it has wild variances from ~ 60% to ~ 45%? That means the tank's usage isn't consistently great or terrible day by day:

 

Let's take a deeper look at the win rate. An average of win/loss doesn't tell us as much as some may think. As always, we should do is evaluate WHO is using this tank when it comes to skill.

Below we see a grey curve (representing the skill of ALL players) and a blue curve (representing the skill of the players using this tank). The higher the curve, the more players at that skill level are using the tank. We can see that most players are right in the middle / are usually successful at ~ 50% win/loss. The lower the skill and the higher the skill, the fewer the players.

Now we might ask: "there are players with a 100% win rate?!" or "there are players with a 0% win rate?!" Those are likely players that played once in this tank and won or lost and then stopped. Super low occurrence outliers.

The lower battle count causes a bit of a spiky blue line, but we can see this tank tends to favor more skilled players very slightly.

 

Let's look at the tank's win/loss compared to skill. In the below picture we see two lines, one that represents the entire population's win/loss and another that represents this tank's win/loss.

The K-91 performs neither better nor worse for all players at all skill levels. It has nearly a perfect overlap with all other tier X tanks and skills. That might indicate that the elevated win rate for this tank is due to the fact that it attracts higher skilled players (although only just).

 

Weapons

Let's keep looking and focus on the weapon (the 100 mm D-46T)

Accuracy is fine. Basically in the middle of the pack of the non-SPG tanks for tier X and averages ~ 74% shots hit:

 

Penetration is also good; right in the middle of the tier X pack. ~ 52% of shots that land penetrates their target. (lower pen are from HE / explosive rounds, higher pen are typically TDs or other accurate, hard-hitting tanks):

 

Damage per shots that hit is on the lower end / near the bottom for tier X vehicles (super high numbers in the graph below are the tier X SPGs):

 

Damage per shot that hits AND penetrates is also lower (super high numbers in the graph below are the tier X SPGs):

 

Damage per battle is average to slightly below average. It is on the lower end of the medium tanks at tier X, but eclipses all light tanks:

 

Survival, etc.

Let's keep looking at other stats.

How often does this tank survive a match? Survival averages ~ 28% but is fairly inconsistent depending on the day. It spikes at about 32% and sometimes dips to as low as 19%.

 

How long does the tank live for in a match? Usually about 4min and 45sec. A bit lower but again, inconsistent due to the number of battles being played.

 

How far does this tank move? Quite a bit actually for a medium tank:

 

How much damage does it usually block? It's on the lower end of the medium tanks with ~ 450 blocked per battle:

 

Conclusions

So what's the summary?

We have analyzed numerical data on this tank.

We see that players of all skill levels use this tank, but higher skill players are a bit more likely to drive this into battle.

 

Action Items

Based on this, no changes will be made to this tank.

  • The skill of the player doesn't seem to impact the tank.
  • The higher population of high skilled players seems to be pushing this tank higher on win/loss, but not dramatically so.

 

We will continue to watch this tank and once it has at least 5,000 more battles we will look again. Once we have that amount of info, we will report back here on what the results were and (if necessary) what the next steps will be.

 

If you have feedback about this process or have further questions, reach out! Stay tuned here for results of the test and for what the next tank we focus on is.

See you on the battlefield!

 



MaxChaos24-x #2 Posted 15 June 2020 - 11:20 AM

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The article is now live. 

DwarfOnDrugs-x #3 Posted 15 June 2020 - 11:24 AM

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.... seriously :|

 


Szympus1194-p #4 Posted 15 June 2020 - 11:31 AM

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This is so funny and sad at the same time.

 

No matter what your winrate charts say i will say it:

RELOAD IS BAD

 

Period 



MASHMAN 90-x #5 Posted 15 June 2020 - 11:31 AM

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Not happy about this at all but not going to get salty about it, i'm as calm as a cucumber. Reload needed a buff.

FusionStar287-x #6 Posted 15 June 2020 - 11:36 AM

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I strongly disagree with the decision to leave the K-91 unchanged. I already see no good reason to play it over something like the 140, but even ignoring that point the graphs/stats provided show that the K-91 is at best average and at worst notably below average in every single regard but Win Rate (and even its Win Rate is only just slightly high, despite the fact that there are mostly skilled players playing it). It's the least played tier X medium for a quite a few reasons, and just by looking at the data it's very clear that the K-91 at the very least needs some fairly significant buffs.

"My dear brothers, take note of this: Men should be quick to listen, slow to speak, and slow to become angry, for man's anger does not bring about the righteous life that God desires." ~ James 1: 19-20

 

"wefWEGFRF" - RaiBOT01, 2017


Joco3000-x #7 Posted 15 June 2020 - 11:38 AM

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Oh, John-Berg is not going to like this.

 

I don't quite agree with this assessment.

The fact it is the least played tier X medium is quite telling. Why is this?

Is it the grind? No, because the Object 430U is rather common, and it shares the exact same grind.

 

It's the tank. It's playable, but it's a little rubbish. It's completely outclassed by the other Soviet mediums in pretty much all aspects, and even the similarly poor DPM Object 907 gets a full turret and decent armour.

And you rarely see the 907 either.

 

I'd personally say buff the DPM. Perhaps not to the same levels of the PC version, but certainly around 2700.

The statistics say it's balanced, but I'd say that the wild fluctuations caused by the low numbers playing the tank fail to reflect a true figure for this vehicle.


You can PM with with questions, if you wish. I don't bite.

Compilation thread of my ideas


flbodyman #8 Posted 15 June 2020 - 11:43 AM

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Time and time again i want to give the game another chance, they said they would make changes off of player feedback but here they are doing the same thing as always going off broken data i will be going back to war thunder permanently this time.

ClichedTree990-x #9 Posted 15 June 2020 - 11:44 AM

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The problem with the K91 isn't necessarily in the stats, it's when you compare it to other tier X Soviet mediums like the Obj. 140. It sacrifices armor (as shown by your blocked damage and survival rates), the flexibility of a mid-mounted turret, a fully rotatable turret, and most importantly, a massive amount of DPM, for slightly better gun handling, standard pen (but the prem pen is the same which somewhat negates the standard pen advantage). The thing that makes the 100mm guns useful over their higher alpha damage competitors is the RoF, but the K91 has a barely higher RoF than the Patton with a 105. I ask that you please look at the tank in the context of other tier X mediums and realize that it sacrifices much of their flexibility to get a better gun, only to have the very low RoF negate any of those small advantages the gun had. It's the lowest played tier X mediums according to you stats, and I believe the reason for that is that there's no real reason to play it over the Obj. 140. 


BrogueOne-p #10 Posted 15 June 2020 - 11:44 AM

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I haven’t unlocked this tank yet, but when I see “least popular tier X” and “damage is on the lower end” and see “no changes” even I’m scratching my head.

LargoGinganinja-x #11 Posted 15 June 2020 - 12:00 PM

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The least played tank in tier x. Nothing wrong here LOL. If you are going to have 2 balance changes every 2 weeks have 2 changes. The optics on this are terrible. It looks lazy on the part of the balance team.

LacqueredBacon-x #12 Posted 15 June 2020 - 12:08 PM

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So it hits and penetrates at an average rate but it is rarely played and does the least amount of damage of the medium tanks and you concluded nothing is wrong with it because it still wins at an average rate?  I can't think of a better example of why win rate should not be considered.  You literally found the problem with the tank and why it is played the least.


 


MaxChaos24-x #13 Posted 15 June 2020 - 12:19 PM

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View PostLargoGinganinja, on 15 June 2020 - 08:00 AM, said:

The least played tank in tier x. Nothing wrong here LOL. If you are going to have 2 balance changes every 2 weeks have 2 changes. The optics on this are terrible. It looks lazy on the part of the balance team.

 

Hello, just to clarify, these articles aren't about making two balance changes every two weeks. This series is "Let's Talk about Tanks" where we talk about tanks, go through some data and show how they are doing. Sometimes there will be balance changes along with it, sometimes there isn't anything to change. :honoring:

 

Feedback is appreciated and asked for, but please do keep it constructive and provide feedback on what you would like to see changed or adjusted. :great:



supermuis68-p #14 Posted 15 June 2020 - 12:25 PM

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View PostSzympus1194, on 15 June 2020 - 11:31 AM, said:

This is so funny and sad at the same time.

 

No matter what your winrate charts say i will say it:

RELOAD IS BAD

 

Period 

 

:medal:

LargoGinganinja-x #15 Posted 15 June 2020 - 12:29 PM

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Fair enough but it still doesn't change the fact that the k91 is one of the least played tier x tanks and clearly the player base don't like it. Not changing anything will not be understood by the majority of the players.

Fabje1704-x #16 Posted 15 June 2020 - 12:34 PM

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hahahhaha good one wg. i like the joke.
but now post the real article thx 

TL bussy (fart of wot

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Monkey CH-x #17 Posted 15 June 2020 - 12:45 PM

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WG this is the prove as your winrate balancing is not working. It's a mistery to me as why you still use the winrate to look if a tank is balanced or not. Play that tank and also play the other mediums to get what's wrong with it. The win rate say nothing about the balancing of any tank at all. There are 29 other tanks in the game and if we win or loose has nothing to to with one single tank! :facepalm:

 

The K91 is by far the worst Tier X Medium in the game, and it behaves much worse than anything else. The  Win rate says aboslutly nothing (!!!) about the performance of this tanks in comparision to other Tier X medium tanks.

 

PLEASE STOP TO USE THE WINRATE FOR BALANCING FIXES!!!!!! This is like you do a dice game.

 

 

 

 



Icaro_Leal #18 Posted 15 June 2020 - 12:51 PM

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http://forum-console...rsively-recurs/

 

The WZ-132-1 is okay now, but the others no



Icaro_Leal #19 Posted 15 June 2020 - 12:53 PM

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View PostMaxChaos24, on 15 June 2020 - 12:19 PM, said:

 

Hello, just to clarify, these articles are about making two balance changes every two weeks. This series is "Let's Talk about Tanks" where we talk about tanks, go through some data and show how they are doing. Sometimes there will be balance changes along with it, sometimes there isn't anything to change. :honoring:

 

Feedback is appreciated and asked for, but please do keep it constructive and provide feedback on what you would like to see changed or adjusted. :great:

 

http://forum-console...rsively-recurs/

 

I suggest some changes. Thanks



PinkishOcean430-x #20 Posted 15 June 2020 - 01:14 PM

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Max,

 

Low battle count tanks really need to be given some leeway with WR.  From what I can see the player WR used for analysis is a players overall.  Please have Jeff keep in mind that low use tanks are typically going to be used when players are looking for a challange.  This will be done by players with much better recents than their overalls.  These tanks are also played when you are focused and thinking/trying due to having to make up for what they lack.

 

The same can be said for the 268v4.  The WR data should not be used when the tanks are clearly performing so much worse than their counter parts.  It is being skewed by better players with bad overall stats but good recents.  The damage and battles played is a HUGE indicator.  Tanks like the WZ 5a will show lower battles played but has high damage, so despite not being popular it is a good tank.

 

Also all these tanks are reviewed in a month.  What would be the harm in boosting these low battle count tanks?  Much better data could be gained and if they end up being too strong you guys have a built in safety valve.  As of right now this tank will take over a month before it can be reviewed again.  How is that not seen as a problem with the tank?  Even if the K91 or 268v4 ended up being too strong for a short period more people would grind/free XP the tanks leading to increase battle data even if they get reverted.  On top of that the low number of owners would prevent effecting MM too strongly.  

 

Having an increase in diversity of tanks in the game is a GOOD thing to target.  Not giving the K91 or 268v4 a way to perform better in their peer group is going to prevent this.






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