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Let's Talk about Tanks - Object 430U Edition


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MaxChaos24 #1 Posted 18 June 2020 - 12:43 PM

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Posted on behalf of the Development Team

 

Hey everyone!

My name is Jeff Gregg, and I am the Lead Designer on World of Tanks Valor.

Welcome to "Let's talk about tanks! Object 430U edition".

The goal is to highlight specific tanks, one at a time, and really dig down into what makes them tick, how they are being used, and how approaches may be taken to improve them if necessary.

As you read you will see a lot of charts and data. All of this data compares the tank to every other tank of its tier over a sixty-day period. All data is pulled from Random Battles only.

This article focused on the Object 430U. Let's get started.

Battles and Popularity

The Object 430U

A Tier X USSR Medium, the Object 430U relies on its 122 mm M62-T2U to bring down foes and help the team achieve victory.

This tank's usage at tier X is in the lower-middle of the pack w/ an average of ~ 4,700 battles a day

So how is this tank doing with these players? Is it dominating? Is it suffering? According to the data, it is doing very well with a win percentage of ~ 53.6%:

Let's take a deeper look into win rate. An average of win/loss doesn't tell us as much as some may think. As always, we should do is evaluate WHO is using this tank when it comes to skill.

Below we see a curve (representing the skill of ALL players) and a blue curve (representing the skill of the players using this tank). The higher the curve, the more players at that skill level are using the tank. We can see that most players are right in the middle / are usually successful at ~ 50% win/loss. The lower the skill and the higher the skill, the fewer the players.

Now we might ask: "there are players with 100% win rate?!" or "there are players with 0% win rate?!" Those are likely players that played once in this tank and won or lost and then stopped. Super low occurrence outliers.

This tank shows a clear draw for more skilled players.

Let's look at the tank's win/loss compared to skill. In the below picture we see two lines, one that represents the entire population's win/loss and another that represents this tank's win/loss.

The Object 430U performs better for all players at all skill levels. See the blue line above the other line? The blue line is the Object 430U, where the other line is all tier X tanks. So this tank appears to benefit any player that has it and uses it in battle. That tells us that even tho this tank is more attractive to higher skill players, it is powerful in the hands of any skill:

Weapons

Let's keep looking and focus on the weapon (the 122 mm M62-T2U)

Accuracy is great. It has an average accuracy of almost 76%:

Penetration is also good but not insane. It has an average pen of ~ 53%

Damage per shots that hit is great; this tank is the 2nd best medium tank at tier X for damage per hit (super high numbers in the graph below are the tier X SPGs):

Damage per shot that hits AND penetrates is # 1 for Tier X medium tanks. Meaning that if your shot penetrates the target, you will have the highest statistical chance of doing the most damage w/ that shot in this tank (out of all tier X medium tanks). (super high numbers in the graph below are the tier X SPGs):

Damage per battle: this tank is in the top 1/3 of the pack for tier X mediums and damage per battle with an average of ~ 1,960 per battle

Survival, etc.

Let's keep looking at other stats.

How often does this tank survive a match? On average the tank survives ~ 31.5% of the time (in the top 3 tier X mediums).

How long does the tank live for in a match? An average of 4min and 50s (again, in the top 3 of the tier X mediums):

How far does this tank move? It moves less than ~ 2/3 of the Tier X medium tanks and has some overlap with heavy tanks in terms of average traversal distance:

How much damage does it usually block? This tank is the #1 tier X medium tank for damage blocking. By a LOT.  It blocked ~ 1.5x more damage than the # 2 Tier X Medium and 2.3x more damage on average than all Tier X Mediums!

Conclusions

Summary

So what's the summary?

We have analyzed numerical data on this tank.

The things that stand out the most are:

  1. This tank has an above 50% win rate
  2. This tank is preferred by skilled players, but benefits all players that use it regardless of skill.
  3. This tank is a damage blocking monster for Mediums at this tier.
  4. This tank hits hard when it pens, but on average is acceptable in terms of damage output per battle

Action Items

Based on this we plan on doing the following:

  • Decrease the vehicle's health from 2,000 to 1,900 (5% reduction)
    • Armor is unchanged, but penetrating shots are more deadly
  •  Adjust the vehicle's terrain resistance
    • CURRENT:
      • Firm= 0.6
      • Medium = 0.7
      • Soft = 1.6
    • NEW:
      • Firm = 0.6 (no change)
      • Medium = 0.8 (14.3% increase, makes rotation in medium terrain such as sand more difficult / slow)
      • Soft = 1.8  (12.5% increase, makes rotation in soft terrain such as mud and water more difficult / slow)
    • This will encourage tankers that use this vehicle to try to stick to the roads and encourage them to really plan when going thru softer environments

The above changes will take place on June 30th.

In order to measure the impact of these changes once they are committed, we need at least 5,000 battles in the tank(s) to have enough data. Once we have that amount of info, we will report back here on what the results were and (if necessary) what the next steps will be.

If you have feedback about this process or have further questions, reach out! Stay tuned here for results of the test and for what the next tank we focus on is.

See you on the battlefield!



MaxChaos24 #2 Posted 29 June 2020 - 10:44 AM

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The article is now live. 

KilledByPing #3 Posted 29 June 2020 - 10:46 AM

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:amazed:

This aint 1st of April is it? 



LacqueredBacon #4 Posted 29 June 2020 - 10:50 AM

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What does "penetrating shots are more deadly" mean?  Do you mean since the health is reduced, each shot would do a larger percentage of damage or do you mean you have reduced the health of the modules?


 


BrogueOne #5 Posted 29 June 2020 - 10:53 AM

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View PostLacqueredBacon, on 29 June 2020 - 10:50 AM, said:

What does "penetrating shots are more deadly" mean?  Do you mean since the health is reduced, each shot would do a larger percentage of damage

You’ve already answered yourself.  There was no mention of module health, was there?



MASHMAN 90 #6 Posted 29 June 2020 - 10:54 AM

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430U - Not enough in my opinion, It was all about the armour and the gun, none got changed. Health Nerf didn't need it. Also Camo still better than K-91

MaxChaos24 #7 Posted 29 June 2020 - 10:57 AM

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View PostLacqueredBacon, on 29 June 2020 - 06:50 AM, said:

What does "penetrating shots are more deadly" mean?  Do you mean since the health is reduced, each shot would do a larger percentage of damage or do you mean you have reduced the health of the modules?

 

It would be the former. :honoring:

LacqueredBacon #8 Posted 29 June 2020 - 11:00 AM

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View PostBrogueOne, on 29 June 2020 - 05:53 AM, said:

You’ve already answered yourself.  There was no mention of module health, was there?

 

No, but I wanted to make sure.  No harm in asking a question.


 


LacqueredBacon #9 Posted 29 June 2020 - 11:01 AM

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View PostMaxChaos24, on 29 June 2020 - 05:57 AM, said:

 

It would be the former. :honoring:

 

Thank you.


 


BrogueOne #10 Posted 29 June 2020 - 11:02 AM

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View PostLacqueredBacon, on 29 June 2020 - 11:00 AM, said:

 

No, but I wanted to make sure.  No harm in asking a question.

No sarcasm was meant either... I forgot the :P



LargoGinganinja #11 Posted 29 June 2020 - 11:14 AM

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Meh, as said before it is the combination of mobility and troll stalinite armour that make it good. Slight mobility and health nerf wont make much difference but I have not heard anyone saying the 430u is op for ages LOL. IMHO I find the tank boring. Its effective but not much fun to use. 

caesarr1998 #12 Posted 29 June 2020 - 11:20 AM

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Can u please start doing some serious changes?? it is unbelivable that it took 2 weeks to do this. last time u did nothing to the K-91 even if it is the weakest tier X in the game and now u are changing a tank that really does not need a nerf and the 907 still is not good enough (140 is a better tank). why don't u nerf the T110E4? why don't u buff the 50B, Progetto 65, IS-4 and all the other weak tier X tanks? why is it taking so long to change the terrain resistance on a tank? i also hope the you are planning to do some serious changes at the other tiers (Nerf the Pz. V/IV for ex.) 

Loggins #13 Posted 29 June 2020 - 11:45 AM

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It appears that charts 3 and 4 don’t add up. In chart 3 it’s shows players with a win rate of 33-52% performing poorly in the 430U as compared to the player base whereas players with 53-70% win rate performing better in the 430U than average and thus skewing the 430U’s win rate to the 53% where it stands. Chart 4 doesn’t reflect this??? 
 

Hey Jeff, how about let’s talk about Artillery? I’m fired of being nuked by a SPG that I can’t see nor return fire. 



SPUK4U #14 Posted 29 June 2020 - 12:20 PM

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View PostLoggins, on 29 June 2020 - 11:45 AM, said:

It appears that charts 3 and 4 don’t add up. In chart 3 it’s shows players with a win rate of 33-52% performing poorly in the 430U as compared to the player base whereas players with 53-70% win rate performing better in the 430U than average and thus skewing the 430U’s win rate to the 53% where it stands. Chart 4 doesn’t reflect this??? 
 

Hey Jeff, how about let’s talk about Artillery? I’m fired of being nuked by a SPG that I can’t see nor return fire. 

 

Yes, how about tier X artillery? I'm tired of long reload time and missing those few shots that I have time to take before battle ends or my arty gets killed by yolo lights.

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MaxChaos24 #15 Posted 29 June 2020 - 12:34 PM

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View PostLoggins, on 29 June 2020 - 07:45 AM, said:

It appears that charts 3 and 4 don’t add up. In chart 3 it’s shows players with a win rate of 33-52% performing poorly in the 430U as compared to the player base whereas players with 53-70% win rate performing better in the 430U than average and thus skewing the 430U’s win rate to the 53% where it stands. Chart 4 doesn’t reflect this??? 
 

Hey Jeff, how about let’s talk about Artillery? I’m fired of being nuked by a SPG that I can’t see nor return fire. 

Hello, I think you may not be reading the charts right. Chart #3 is popularity. This is showing how many battles are being played at each skill level. It's not showing how good a tank is. It shows that higher skilled players play this tank more. This is reflected in Chart #2 (the average win rate) as the average is skewed based on who is playing it more.

 

In Chart #4, you are looking at the un-skewed data where it matches up the tank's performance directly against the skill of the player using it, this data isn't influenced by who is playing it more as it's separated by skill level. 

 

Hopefully that helps (or makes you more confused) :great:



FusionStar287 #16 Posted 29 June 2020 - 12:38 PM

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View PostSPUK4U, on 29 June 2020 - 07:20 AM, said:

 

Yes, how about tier X artillery? I'm tired of long reload time and missing those few shots that I have time to take before battle ends or my arty gets killed by yolo lights.

Yeah, funilly enough I feel that most SPGs would end up being buffed or left unchanged if they were "talked about", especially when it comes to most of the German SPGs and most of the tier VII and VIII SPGs. Realistically the only ones that are too strong right now are the US Sexton, M44, M53/55, and maybe​ the FV305 and M40/43. 

 

As for the actual topic of the thread, these changes to the 430U seem fine to me. 100 less hit points, while not that much, can often mean that it will be taken out in one less shot (since it's now under the 4 shot kill average for 490 alpha guns and under the 5 shot kill average for 390 and 400 alpha guns), and the ground resistance nerfs should make it just that extra bit less mobile on many maps. Personally speaking I've always felt that the 430U is significantly overrated, but even so a more minor, but still potentially impactful, nerf seems reasonable. 


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Loggins #17 Posted 29 June 2020 - 01:02 PM

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View PostMaxChaos24, on 29 June 2020 - 12:34 PM, said:

Hello, I think you may not be reading the charts right. Chart #3 is popularity. This is showing how many battles are being played at each skill level. It's not showing how good a tank is. It shows that higher skilled players play this tank more. This is reflected in Chart #2 (the average win rate) as the average is skewed based on who is playing it more.

 

In Chart #4, you are looking at the un-skewed data where it matches up the tank's performance directly against the skill of the player using it, this data isn't influenced by who is playing it more as it's separated by skill level. 

 

Hopefully that helps (or makes you more confused) :great:

 

It’s certainly possible that I’m not reading the charts correct, I was once told by one of my college professors that charts can be like statistics and can say what ever you want them to say if you are not careful. Like Mark Twain said, “ there’s lies, damn lies, and there is statistics. 
 

So I see in chart 3 it shows win rate as compared to number of battles. Chart 4 shows win rate to what? Where did the what come from? Just trying to understand. 



Vampire_Izumi #18 Posted 29 June 2020 - 01:04 PM

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View PostFusionStar287, on 29 June 2020 - 09:38 PM, said:

 Realistically the only ones that are too strong right now are the US Sexton, M44, M53/55, and maybe​ the FV305 and M40/43. 

 

so basically tier 6-9 of the american artillery line. i agree with that 100% its the reason why they are the most played artillery in the game.


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MaxChaos24 #19 Posted 29 June 2020 - 01:05 PM

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View PostLoggins, on 29 June 2020 - 09:02 AM, said:

 

It’s certainly possible that I’m not reading the charts correct, I was once told by one of my college professors that charts can be like statistics and can say what ever you want them to say if you are not careful. Like Mark Twain said, “ there’s lies, damn lies, and there is statistics. 
 

so I see in chart 3 it shows win rate as compared to number of battles. Chart for us wan rate to what? Where did the what come from? Just trying to understand. 

 

For Chart #3, it is showing how many battles (Y axis) are played by players of various Win Rates (X axis). It's showing battle count distribution across the player base. It is not showing the tank's win rate. 

Loggins #20 Posted 29 June 2020 - 01:12 PM

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View PostMaxChaos24, on 29 June 2020 - 01:05 PM, said:

 

For Chart #3, it is showing how many battles (Y axis) are played by players of various Win Rates (X axis). It's showing battle count distribution across the player base. It is not showing the tank's win rate. 

 

What’s the Y axis in Chart 4?




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