Jump to content


Let's Talk about Tanks - AMX 50 B - Follow Up


  • Please log in to reply
21 replies to this topic

MaxChaos24-x #1 Posted 01 July 2020 - 01:01 PM

    Gameplay Expert

  • Administrator
  • 13930 battles
  • 22,328
  • [WGW]
  • Member since:
    09-15-2013

Posted on behalf of the Design Team

 

Welcome

Hey everyone!

My name is Jeff Gregg, and I am the Lead Designer on World of Tanks Valor.

Welcome back to "Let's talk about tanks! AMX 50 B edition".

As a reminder, the goal was to highlight specific tanks, one at a time, and really dig down into what makes them tick, how they are being used, and how approaches may be taken to improve them if necessary.

Let's see how our changes to the AMX 50 B impacted the game.

What we did

Reclassify the AMX 50 B as a Medium Tank as well as the AMX 50 100 and AMX 50 120.

  • It is true this tank was a Heavy tank when under development
  • Their stats, performance, and play style lend themselves to the Medium class in our game.
  • Also:
    • https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AMX-50
    • "The AMX 50, as originally planned, would have been a medium rather than a heavy tank, France being the first of the tank-producing nations to abandon the heavy tank class."

Action Items and Next Steps:

This tank received a re-classification, which brought higher skilled players in to check it out.

These skilled players raised the tank's win rate, damage output, survival, and blocking. Which is really cool to see as the change to Medium in and of itself didn't alter the tank's stats.

We will continue to watch this tank to see if anything new develops, but as for now, there will be no further changes. 

Results

Let's take a look at what occurred.

All data from below is from Random Battle from May 20th till June 17th

 

Battles: 71,245

  • 3,467 per day initial analysis
  • 2,457 per day current analysis
  • Decrease to ~ 71% usage compared to previous
  • The usage of this tank was lower after the change. The same decrease is observed for all Tier X Mediums due to current game events that encouraged players to use other vehicles, so the lower number isn't a serious concern. 

Win Rate: 53.03%

  • 50.62% initial analysis.
  • Increase of ~2.5%

Win Rate by Skill: Mostly the same popularity with a slight climb.

  • Before
  • After

Popularity: Strong shift to the more skilled players (perhaps more reasonable to say players of lower skill used the tank less). This is the best explanation for the increase in the win and other stats.

  • Before:
  • After:

Damage per Hit: 271.9

  • 262.4 per hit initial analysis
  • Increase of ~ 4% damage compared to previous

 

Damage per Penning Hit: 372.4

  • 373.2 per pen hit initial analysis
  • Basically identical

 

Damage: 2,191

  • 2,049 per battle initial analysis
  • Increase of ~ 7% damage compared to previous

 

Survival: 28.82%

  • 26.05% per battle initial analysis
  • Increase of ~ 2.8% damage compared to previous

 

Avg Damage Blocked: 266.5

  • 257.6 per battle initial analysis
  • Increase of ~ 3.5% damage compared to previous

 

Lifespan: 4min 34s

  • 4min 33s per battle initial analysis
  • Basically identical

 

Thanks and see you on the battlefield!



MaxChaos24-x #2 Posted 09 July 2020 - 12:10 PM

    Gameplay Expert

  • Administrator
  • 13930 battles
  • 22,328
  • [WGW]
  • Member since:
    09-15-2013
The article is now Live. 

LargoGinganinja-x #3 Posted 09 July 2020 - 12:44 PM

    Sergeant

  • Players
  • 32653 battles
  • 150
  • [CLGUY]
  • Member since:
    12-28-2017
I think it would be more interesting to see how the change affected the last tier x ranked battles. From my experience the 50b was awesome but it might be more effective in 7 v 7 anyway plus getting matched up against another medium probably meant you would have an armour and hp advantage while having very similar mobility.

LacqueredBacon-x #4 Posted 09 July 2020 - 01:05 PM

    Major

  • Players
  • 42006 battles
  • 6,696
  • Member since:
    02-02-2015

I am very curious about this one.  Was there any change to how it was being played?  Even though it is the exact same tank, were players (consciously or unconsciously) playing it more like a medium and less like a heavy?


 

Heat maps any different?

 


 



 


Lord Roadius-x #5 Posted 09 July 2020 - 01:11 PM

    Sergeant

  • Players
  • 36380 battles
  • 215
  • [Y-RNG]
  • Member since:
    02-16-2014

View PostLacqueredBacon, on 09 July 2020 - 01:05 PM, said:

I am very curious about this one.  Was there any change to how it was being played?  Even though it is the exact same tank, were players (consciously or unconsciously) playing it more like a medium and less like a heavy?


 

Heat maps any different?

 


 

 

Smart players never ran it like a Heavy. And Jeff even said himself in the Article the reason for the 7% damage performance increase was because more good players returned to the tank.

DwarfOnDrugs-x #6 Posted 09 July 2020 - 01:42 PM

    Major

  • Players
  • 36361 battles
  • 2,947
  • [-UNL-]
  • Member since:
    03-12-2014

View PostLord Roadius, on 09 July 2020 - 01:11 PM, said:

 

Smart players never ran it like a Heavy. And Jeff even said himself in the Article the reason for the 7% damage performance increase was because more good players returned to the tank.

 

good players returned to the tank because it was a meme.

 


 


ALF EXTREME-x #7 Posted 09 July 2020 - 03:30 PM

    First lieutenant

  • Beta Tester
  • 53013 battles
  • 917
  • Member since:
    08-11-2013
the only real difference I've noticed is by being a medium it doesn't seem to draw as much attention when flanking or auto loading. people just aren't as worried about a fast medium rushing around their backsides until they realize it's a amx 50b.

I AM KING

and i declare death to all artillery, who will follow me on this righteous quest for freedom


LacqueredBacon-x #8 Posted 09 July 2020 - 03:30 PM

    Major

  • Players
  • 42006 battles
  • 6,696
  • Member since:
    02-02-2015

View PostLord Roadius, on 09 July 2020 - 08:11 AM, said:

 

Smart players never ran it like a Heavy. And Jeff even said himself in the Article the reason for the 7% damage performance increase was because more good players returned to the tank.

 

I didn't ask which players never ran it like a heavy.  I am asking if the general player base is treating it any differently because of the classification.


 


XGR369er #9 Posted 09 July 2020 - 05:20 PM

    First lieutenant

  • Players
  • 42324 battles
  • 656
  • Member since:
    11-09-2013

i hate to say it but since no one truly really has a definitive understanding of what is going on with MM.  I'd like to know if that was the reason why it changed.  It is not longer getting looked at as a heavy which would always be a problem in matches if it got paired again say an is-7 as heavy  with no other heavy support on the team.  Everyone knows autoloaders are best when they aren't taking alot of aggro.  So now some other real heavy tank is getting placed into battle where the 50b would have been and that would make a huge difference I think. 

 

Other then that I can't imagine it being classed as a "medium" some how magically made all the good players come back to play it.  Sounds like a pretty weak reason to me.



Warthog II-x #10 Posted 09 July 2020 - 05:29 PM

    Captain

  • Players
  • 47075 battles
  • 1,890
  • [POKE]
  • Member since:
    05-11-2014
Why doesn't the 50B, a medium tank, get the same on the move camo penalty as other mediums?

  

Some people claim Ensk should be tier restricted.   I don't believe their lies. 

Imagine if this forum had only players who actually win more than lose trying to tell others how to play. Would be the best forum ever. Instead, we have a bunch of bad advice from players who lose more often than not trying to tell their betters how to play their tanks.

 


Poppyluv77-p #11 Posted 09 July 2020 - 05:41 PM

    Captain

  • Players
  • 17036 battles
  • 1,344
  • Member since:
    01-05-2017

View PostXGR369er, on 09 July 2020 - 05:20 PM, said:

i hate to say it but since no one truly really has a definitive understanding of what is going on with MM.  I'd like to know if that was the reason why it changed.  It is not longer getting looked at as a heavy which would always be a problem in matches if it got paired again say an is-7 as heavy  with no other heavy support on the team.  Everyone knows autoloaders are best when they aren't taking alot of aggro.  So now some other real heavy tank is getting placed into battle where the 50b would have been and that would make a huge difference I think. 

 

Other then that I can't imagine it being classed as a "medium" some how magically made all the good players come back to play it.  Sounds like a pretty weak reason to me.

 

mediums and heavies get the same mm weight at this tier.  

 

ridiculous? Yes. But that is currently the case. 



LacqueredBacon-x #12 Posted 09 July 2020 - 07:41 PM

    Major

  • Players
  • 42006 battles
  • 6,696
  • Member since:
    02-02-2015

View PostWarthog II, on 09 July 2020 - 12:29 PM, said:

Why doesn't the 50B, a medium tank, get the same on the move camo penalty as other mediums?

 

I'm not sure what you mean.  It is a huge tank with basically no camo.  According to the tankodepia, the value at rest is 0.07 and while moving is 0.03 (basically nothing).  That corresponds to a reduction of 57%.

 

For comparison, the 30B ratings are 0.27 and 0.20 which is still a reduction of about 26%.


 

Do you think the camo should be buffed?



 


Tizni79-x #13 Posted 09 July 2020 - 08:06 PM

    Staff sergeant

  • Players
  • 21503 battles
  • 277
  • [1942]
  • Member since:
    07-04-2013
Talk about placebo effect....NOTHING AT ALL CHANGED ON THE TANK....any change you are seeing is a natural variance to luck of battle, the fact that they went back and looked at the tank again is a joke right? They did nothing.

Koneko Da Best-x #14 Posted 09 July 2020 - 09:23 PM

    First lieutenant

  • Players
  • 31157 battles
  • 692
  • [KMD]
  • Member since:
    02-03-2014
This follow up is an absolute joke.... Why do a follow up on a tank you didn't change this is just ridiculous! :sceptic:

Warthog II-x #15 Posted 10 July 2020 - 02:30 AM

    Captain

  • Players
  • 47075 battles
  • 1,890
  • [POKE]
  • Member since:
    05-11-2014

View PostLacqueredBacon, on 09 July 2020 - 07:41 PM, said:

 

I'm not sure what you mean.  It is a huge tank with basically no camo.  According to the tankodepia, the value at rest is 0.07 and while moving is 0.03 (basically nothing).  That corresponds to a reduction of 57%.

 

For comparison, the 30B ratings are 0.27 and 0.20 which is still a reduction of about 26%.


 

Do you think the camo should be buffed?

 

medium tanks should lose ~25% of camo when on the move.  ~50% for heavies

 


  

Some people claim Ensk should be tier restricted.   I don't believe their lies. 

Imagine if this forum had only players who actually win more than lose trying to tell others how to play. Would be the best forum ever. Instead, we have a bunch of bad advice from players who lose more often than not trying to tell their betters how to play their tanks.

 


Derekthetree-x #16 Posted 10 July 2020 - 04:31 AM

    First lieutenant

  • Players
  • 19343 battles
  • 908
  • [BEARD]
  • Member since:
    02-16-2014

So it now 2.5% more likely to win than it was. and lower skill players have got better in it?

 

better revert the change then...



Tizni79-x #17 Posted 10 July 2020 - 04:41 AM

    Staff sergeant

  • Players
  • 21503 battles
  • 277
  • [1942]
  • Member since:
    07-04-2013
Maybe they should make it a TD and see if that changes things also, then a light tank.  See if that changes things for it.

AnonymousHobo69-x #18 Posted 10 July 2020 - 07:43 PM

    Major

  • Beta Tester
  • 43256 battles
  • 4,950
  • [CH1MP]
  • Member since:
    07-19-2013
3 second aimtime on a 120mm gun on a massive tank with no armor or camo is just ridiculous. The reclassification change is a joke.
I have ascended.

Red Dough Boy-x #19 Posted 10 July 2020 - 09:59 PM

    Major

  • Supertest - Xbox One
  • 29238 battles
  • 6,792
  • [_POI_]
  • Member since:
    11-08-2013

Changing class may give people a false sense of security since they see more mediums in a battle instead of seeing a heavy tank at a glance with a 1600 damage magazine running about. I don't see why WG is so afraid of buffing tank's aim times, something like ignoring the Type 59 is even worse just because it was deemed OP at one point. 

 

Since the Chieftain also plays like a medium let's just change it too. Oh and the Bat Chat seems more like a light tank. Manticore should get 10 rounds a minute and be labeled a destroyer while we're at it. :ohmy:


If I only had a Baneblade....

 

 

 


Tizni79-x #20 Posted 11 July 2020 - 09:09 PM

    Staff sergeant

  • Players
  • 21503 battles
  • 277
  • [1942]
  • Member since:
    07-04-2013

View PostRed Dough Boy, on 10 July 2020 - 09:59 PM, said:

 Manticore should get 10 rounds a minute and be labeled a destroyer while we're at it. :ohmy:

 

This would require a change to the tank whereas they seem much more comfortable changing the shape above your head and changing nothing else.....Okay if you want to make that change but why this thread where we talk about it like they actually did work? Why waste our time with your meaningless research...I assume they billed the company for this waste of time?






1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users