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Positive of +/-1

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Aoli7-x #1 Posted 18 October 2020 - 11:59 AM

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Map. Pilsen Assault, -1 tier

Tank played. Inferno

Victory! Survived

 

I spawned at F1 and moved to G4 to go haul down. I was waiting for lights to spot for both teams and find out ARTY's location. Red heavies, mediums and TD's mostly spawned at B9. 

 

Now the positive. I relocated to D4 to play haul down and help my team. Only being -1 I was able to help and have a positive effect on the game. My armour can bounce a Conqueror's 12cm gun but can also be penned. My 10.5cm gun can pen the Conq but also will bounce. 

 

With +/-1. -1 tanks can actually help the +1 tanks and change the games outcome. With map awareness and supporting the higher tier tanks.

 

I came in second on the team with Damage and kills. If I was tier -2 I feel this game would have had a different outcome for the team and my tanks ability to support. 

 

I hope this is what you are seeing.

 

Adding a small part of TV in the post. I was able to creep up a bit in my tank and see (not spot. Distance 400-500m away) a T30 and eliminate the tank. Without TV, I feel we still would have won. Reds had ARTY and slow TD's at the end of the game. 

 



SirDerp-a-lot-p #2 Posted 18 October 2020 - 02:50 PM

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View PostAoli7-x, on 18 October 2020 - 12:59 PM, said:

With +/-1. -1 tanks can actually help the +1 tanks and change the games outcome. With map awareness and supporting the higher tier tanks.

 

The same is possible in +2 games. In fact, it's even more fun if you have to fight +2 tanks.



Tempest fox3-x #3 Posted 18 October 2020 - 03:34 PM

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With all the spaced armour on the front of the infernos turret most tier 10's will stuggle to pen it too. 

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Aoli7-x #4 Posted 18 October 2020 - 03:45 PM

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View PostSirDerp-a-lot-p, on 18 October 2020 - 02:50 PM, said:

 

The same is possible in +2 games. In fact, it's even more fun if you have to fight +2 tanks.

 

The few times we've all done it doesn't even come close to the times we've been ran over by a +2 tank.  Wow!

View PostTempest fox3-x, on 18 October 2020 - 03:34 PM, said:

With all the spaced armour on the front of the infernos turret most tier 10's will stuggle to pen it too. 

 

what tier 7 heavy can go up against a Conq or a 705 and have a positive effect on the games outcome? 

Edited by Aoli7-x, 18 October 2020 - 03:47 PM.


pingwrx-p #5 Posted 18 October 2020 - 03:46 PM

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View PostAoli7-x, on 18 October 2020 - 07:45 AM, said:

 

no, stop right there.

 

what tier 7 heavy can go up against a Conq or a 705 and have a positive effect on the games outcome? 

T29 played hulldown.



 


Aoli7-x #6 Posted 18 October 2020 - 03:48 PM

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View Postpingwrx-p, on 18 October 2020 - 03:46 PM, said:

T29 played hulldown.

 

Conq DPM will wear the T29 down.

Desyatnik Pansy-x #7 Posted 18 October 2020 - 03:54 PM

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View PostSirDerp-a-lot-p, on 18 October 2020 - 02:50 PM, said:

The same is possible in +2 games. In fact, it's even more fun if you have to fight +2 tanks.

 

Disagree.

Occasionally when you get a really bad player who buggers up a situation they had all the advantages in there can be some amusement but it's the same kind of amusement as watching an enemy throw their tank off a cliff and missing when you're the last tank alive on your team to their seven or so.

 

View Postpingwrx-p, on 18 October 2020 - 03:46 PM, said:

T29 played hulldown.

 

Unless those two are parked out in the open where the T29 can shoot their lower plates, it's really not going to do anything but exist in front of them, even if the 705 is, that's still probably going to need APCR to reliably penetrate.

While the Conq has a cupola so at least the T29 can feasibly stand a chance at penetrating it the hull down play of course is based around making that harder to hit, for a tank with a rather inaccurate gun, and less alpha, and less DPM, and less health, while the Conq really just has to hit the turret roof and overmatch it.

 

It can slow it down yes, but most of the time the Conqueror is going to win the engagement.


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lethelerror-x #8 Posted 18 October 2020 - 04:16 PM

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I love +1 not spending anything on tanks till it's a permanent thing.

It makes the game so much more consistent and fun.  Much happier to play their 8 when they don't see 10.



SirDerp-a-lot-p #9 Posted 18 October 2020 - 05:51 PM

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View PostAoli7-x, on 18 October 2020 - 04:45 PM, said:

The few times we've all done it doesn't even come close to the times we've been ran over by a +2 tank.  Wow!

 

Play more carefully then.

 

For me, +1 games all feel the same, and don't want that. Every other problem is still there, matchmaking, streaks, noob teams, &c. Nothing is fixed.



Tempest fox3-x #10 Posted 18 October 2020 - 06:02 PM

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View PostAoli7-x, on 18 October 2020 - 03:45 PM, said:

 

The few times we've all done it doesn't even come close to the times we've been ran over by a +2 tank.  Wow!

 

what tier 7 heavy can go up against a Conq or a 705 and have a positive effect on the games outcome? 

 

Not 100% sure how that is relevant to what I said about the Infernos turret being so strong that most tier 10s struggle to pen it.

 

T29, Minuteman, dreadnought, Tiger, AMX using the 105....pretty much anything but the black prince honestly. 

 

Even if you don't kill the tier 9. A low tier Keeping a top tier busy for a long time maybe even whittling away the top tiers hitpoints in the process is often enough to have a significant impact on the outcome of the game.

 

The constant 'I can't do anything' outlook to being low tiered is a self fulfilling prophecy. 


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GUNMETALGREY1-x #11 Posted 18 October 2020 - 06:03 PM

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View PostSirDerp-a-lot-p, on 18 October 2020 - 12:51 PM, said:

 

Play more carefully then.

 

For me, +1 games all feel the same, and don't want that. Every other problem is still there, matchmaking, streaks, noob teams, &c. Nothing is fixed.

So, based off that statement, I’d guess you rarely/never play tiers IX and X because you have zero chance of being 2 tiers down and everything would all...you know....feel the same.



KillDozer33-x #12 Posted 18 October 2020 - 06:16 PM

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View PostTempest fox3-x, on 18 October 2020 - 01:02 PM, said:

 

Not 100% sure how that is relevant to what I said about the Infernos turret being so strong that most tier 10s struggle to pen it.

 

T29, Minuteman, dreadnought, Tiger, AMX using the 105....pretty much anything but the black prince honestly. 

 

Even if you don't kill the tier 9. A low tier Keeping a top tier busy for a long time maybe even whittling away the top tiers hitpoints in the process is often enough to have a significant impact on the outcome of the game.

 

The constant 'I can't do anything' outlook to being low tiered is a self fulfilling prophecy. 

 

Had a winning game in my T29 last week as the ONLY tier 7 and came in second doing exactly what you described.

 

Where you watching lol?:unsure:


Edited by KillDozer33-x, 18 October 2020 - 06:17 PM.


Aoli7-x #13 Posted 18 October 2020 - 07:01 PM

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View PostTempest fox3-x, on 18 October 2020 - 06:02 PM, said:

 

Not 100% sure how that is relevant to what I said about the Infernos turret being so strong that most tier 10s struggle to pen it.

 

T29, Minuteman, dreadnought, Tiger, AMX using the 105....pretty much anything but the black prince honestly. 

 

Even if you don't kill the tier 9. A low tier Keeping a top tier busy for a long time maybe even whittling away the top tiers hitpoints in the process is often enough to have a significant impact on the outcome of the game.

 

The constant 'I can't do anything' outlook to being low tiered is a self fulfilling prophecy. 

 

I'm not sure we play the same game and you also sound like you will argue for your entertainment. I'm not sure where you came up with your prophecy and now you're going off into a new rant to make yourself feel better. 

 

Being -2 tiers you can still have good, great, bad and awful game. But the actual impact on a game is minimal at best (in most games). If I was going up against an E4 in the same situation in my Inferno, the outcome would have been -800 HP/round. This is not a guess, we have all been there. 

 

+/-1 works and this weekend has there been as many blowouts as usual? In the games I've played, no. I think the games have been longer and just in 2 days can recall going the full time 3 times.

 

 



SirDerp-a-lot-p #14 Posted 18 October 2020 - 07:04 PM

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View PostGUNMETALGREY1-x, on 18 October 2020 - 07:03 PM, said:

So, based off that statement, I’d guess you rarely/never play tiers IX and X because you have zero chance of being 2 tiers down and everything would all...you know....feel the same.

 

True, tier VIII is my most played tier



El Materdor43-x #15 Posted 18 October 2020 - 09:13 PM

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View PostAoli7-x, on 18 October 2020 - 02:01 PM, said:

 

I'm not sure we play the same game and you also sound like you will argue for your entertainment. I'm not sure where you came up with your prophecy and now you're going off into a new rant to make yourself feel better. 

 

Being -2 tiers you can still have good, great, bad and awful game. But the actual impact on a game is minimal at best (in most games). If I was going up against an E4 in the same situation in my Inferno, the outcome would have been -800 HP/round. This is not a guess, we have all been there. 

 

+/-1 works and this weekend has there been as many blowouts as usual? In the games I've played, no. I think the games have been longer and just in 2 days can recall going the full time 3 times.

 

 

If I go up against an E4 in my M60, he still hits me for 800. The only difference is I can take 1 more hit as a tier X than a tier VIII.  That doesn’t make much of a difference in game. 
 

What is the common denominator?


   

 

                                                                                                                                               

                                                                                                                 

 


Aoli7-x #16 Posted 18 October 2020 - 09:37 PM

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View PostEl Materdor43-x, on 18 October 2020 - 09:13 PM, said:

If I go up against an E4 in my M60, he still hits me for 800. The only difference is I can take 1 more hit as a tier X than a tier VIII.  That doesn’t make much of a difference in game. 
 

What is the common denominator?

 

Tier 8 Pershing 1350 HP

Tier X M60 2000 HP

That a huge difference. The M60 also has better mobility and gun handling. Being able to take 2 hits from an E4 and still be in the fight, that's a huge difference. Your gun is still in the game making a difference. The T8 is out and a non factor. 

 

Reading your comment, tells me you don't know what you're talking about. 



El Materdor43-x #17 Posted 18 October 2020 - 10:02 PM

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View PostAoli7-x, on 18 October 2020 - 04:37 PM, said:

 

Tier 8 Pershing 1350 HP

Tier X M60 2000 HP

That a huge difference. The M60 also has better mobility and gun handling. Being able to take 2 hits from an E4 and still be in the fight, that's a huge difference. Your gun is still in the game making a difference. The T8 is out and a non factor. 

 

Reading your comment, tells me you don't know what you're talking about. 

Ok. I don’t know what I’m talking about. 
 

The problem is 800+ alpha from the E4.  If I’m in the Pershing, I’m not stupid enough to challenge an E4 frontally anyway. I’m going to be opportunistic and take my shots when he’s distracted. And the M60, my whopping 560 more HP allows me to get off 1 more shot before I’m erased. The E4 is still alive. 


Look at a tier IX matchup between the baby Waffle and the Pershing. The Pershing still gets killed in two shots.  The problem is balance, not tier spread. You can put the T95 or the T30 in the place of the baby Waffle, the result is the same. 


Is my game experience better because a tier IX killed me in 2 shots instead of a tier X?

 


   

 

                                                                                                                                               

                                                                                                                 

 


SirDerp-a-lot-p #18 Posted 19 October 2020 - 12:33 AM

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View PostAoli7-x, on 18 October 2020 - 10:37 PM, said:

Tier 8 Pershing 1350 HP

Tier X M60 2000 HP

That a huge difference.

 

Of course. One is tier VIII, one is tier X. Do you expect them to be identical?



Aoli7-x #19 Posted 19 October 2020 - 12:50 AM

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View PostSirDerp-a-lot-p, on 19 October 2020 - 12:33 AM, said:

 

Of course. One is tier VIII, one is tier X. Do you expect them to be identical?

 

Did you read the other posts? No. You'd know why that was posted. 

Cyrex005-x #20 Posted 19 October 2020 - 12:57 AM

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View PostAoli7-x, on 18 October 2020 - 10:45 AM, said:

 

The few times we've all done it doesn't even come close to the times we've been ran over by a +2 tank.  Wow!

 

what tier 7 heavy can go up against a Conq or a 705 and have a positive effect on the games outcome? 

T29 hull down slight angle up with the top 105mm package. I'm sure there are others too. It is all in how you play the tanks. 







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