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Perhaps 1 change to True Vision as tested to keep whiners happy - change nets.


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EIIoco ger-x #41 Posted 20 October 2020 - 07:41 AM

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View PostGamerPaws-x, on 20 October 2020 - 07:34 AM, said:

They re taking away one of the core principles.

 

Things change. If you want or not. And yes, you have the right to complain. ;) And we have the right to ignore. :P

But yes, TV destroys the actual vision-system. But this does not need to be a bad thing. Give it a chance. You are a good player, just give some good feedback! I know you can.


Edited by EIIoco ger-x, 20 October 2020 - 07:46 AM.


im_balthazur-p #42 Posted 20 October 2020 - 10:56 AM

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View PostGhoest9-p, on 18 October 2020 - 12:38 PM, said:

How is invisibility at ranges this could be easily seen by any normal person, "better"

 

Its a ridiculous contrived mechanic that probably came into being because of hardware limitation. 

 

I suggest you watch a show called Band of Brothers. In one scene for operation Market Garden, a British tank commander cannot see a camouflaged tiger, even though a normal person did see it. That normal person was within 200 meters. The tank commander was probably 400 meters away. 
 

There is nothing true about True Vision.



SandM9-x #43 Posted 20 October 2020 - 06:54 PM

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View PostMintoVimto-x, on 19 October 2020 - 12:33 PM, said:

 

If I was lying about not taking your feedback into account, why would I take the time out of my day to even reply? We're not bad people, and we really care about the community and the game, most days I finish working and after dinner jump straight into supporting smaller WoTC streamers and CC's if they're online, its almost a 24-hour job sometimes, done out of love for the community. I know it is the same for other members of the team too. Sometimes, our hands are tied but definitely could never bring myself to lie to the community. Trust and respect takes a long time to gain, and it is very quick to be lost. I would be mortified if I ever lost that trust and respect which is slowly growing.

I could pick this apart three ways to Sunday. But you've made it clear that aint' happening. Needless to say I'm sure it will win you points with some.

 

So, if this is all true then why is gold still default for premium ammunition and supplies? That's a predatory practice that needed to end years ago. Or do you disagree?

Why is communication so hard for WGC? Did they ever have a long term plan or have they just been winging it for six years?

Why do they force their players into testing? And why would you change a core mechanic six years into the games life?

Why did they pull the rug out when it came to clans and clan wars?

Why do they not embrace their niche instead of making it seem like they'd rather be doing some other bigger game? Is it money?

I could fill the page with this stuff. All questions that have been asked before and never really answered except by dismissal. 

 

 

View PostEIIoco ger-x, on 20 October 2020 - 12:41 AM, said:

 

Things change. If you want or not. And yes, you have the right to complain. ;) And we have the right to ignore. :P

But yes, TV destroys the actual vision-system. But this does not need to be a bad thing. Give it a chance. You are a good player, just give some good feedback! I know you can.

There is "change" and then there is disruption.  


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Ghoest9-p #44 Posted 20 October 2020 - 07:18 PM

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View Postim_balthazur-p, on 20 October 2020 - 10:56 AM, said:

 

I suggest you watch a show called Band of Brothers. In one scene for operation Market Garden, a British tank commander cannot see a camouflaged tiger, even though a normal person did see it. That normal person was within 200 meters. The tank commander was probably 400 meters away. 
 

There is nothing true about True Vision.

 

????

 

The real life scenario you related is actually a strong argument FOR my suggestion.

 

I love arguments where the other side litterally makes my case for me. 



DrHorrible4Life-x #45 Posted 20 October 2020 - 09:23 PM

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I ordinarily don't look at stats when considering a player's point of view in a forum argument.  However, in this case it perfectly explains why someone would want to change the absolute core gameplay mechanic that separates this game from others in the genre.  Being negative in every category after 20k battles demonstrates not only a fundamental lack of understanding of the vision mechanics, but also an obvious disregard for learning how to play.  

XxDark90SirenxX-x #46 Posted 20 October 2020 - 10:03 PM

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View PostSandM9-x, on 20 October 2020 - 06:54 PM, said:

I could pick this apart three ways to Sunday. But you've made it clear that aint' happening. Needless to say I'm sure it will win you points with some.

 

So, if this is all true then why is gold still default for premium ammunition and supplies? That's a predatory practice that needed to end years ago. Or do you disagree?

Why is communication so hard for WGC? Did they ever have a long term plan or have they just been winging it for six years?

Why do they force their players into testing? And why would you change a core mechanic six years into the games life?

Why did they pull the rug out when it came to clans and clan wars?

Why do they not embrace their niche instead of making it seem like they'd rather be doing some other bigger game? Is it money?

I could fill the page with this stuff. All questions that have been asked before and never really answered except by dismissal. 

 

 

There is "change" and then there is disruption.  

 

victor is the answer to all of your questions. 

GamerPaws-x #47 Posted 21 October 2020 - 04:11 AM

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View PostEIIoco ger-x, on 20 October 2020 - 07:41 AM, said:

 

Things change. If you want or not. And yes, you have the right to complain. ;) And we have the right to ignore. :P

But yes, TV destroys the actual vision-system. But this does not need to be a bad thing. Give it a chance. You are a good player, just give some good feedback! I know you can.

I have been beta tester, that s how long i am around. I dont trust them.


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EIIoco ger-x #48 Posted 21 October 2020 - 08:41 AM

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View PostGamerPaws-x, on 21 October 2020 - 04:11 AM, said:

I have been beta tester, that s how long i am around. I dont trust them.

 

I´m afraid i do the same. But i have still a little hope. Perhaps beause i am not around here that long. ;)

Tempest fox3-x #49 Posted 21 October 2020 - 09:24 AM

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View PostEIIoco ger-x, on 20 October 2020 - 07:41 AM, said:

 

Things change. If you want or not. And yes, you have the right to complain. ;) And we have the right to ignore. :P

But yes, TV destroys the actual vision-system. But this does not need to be a bad thing. Give it a chance. You are a good player, just give some good feedback! I know you can.

 

The problem is a lot of tanks rely on the current vision system to either earn xp from assistance damage or simply not die immediately.

 

A sweeping change like TV will require a lot of balance changes to go with it. Considering WG's history of balance changes I don't trust them to do what is needed to make it work. 


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Jherry Angel-x #50 Posted 21 October 2020 - 02:17 PM

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View PostGhoest9-p, on 18 October 2020 - 12:38 PM, said:

How is invisibility at ranges this could be easily seen by any normal person, "better"

 

Its a ridiculous contrived mechanic that probably came into being because of hardware limitation. 

 

For the same reason I can clearly read a car number-plate reg from 10ft away, would struggle at 100ft and not see the car a mile away.  It's called visual accuity and physics.

Edited by Jherry Angel-x, 21 October 2020 - 02:27 PM.


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Otis Z Firefly-x #51 Posted 21 October 2020 - 02:55 PM

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View PostJherry Angel-x, on 21 October 2020 - 02:17 PM, said:

 

For the same reason I can clearly read a car number-plate reg from 10ft away, would struggle at 100ft and not see the car a mile away.  It's called visual accuity and physics.

 

Yes but the car didn't disappear at 100ft though, did it?
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CatSnipah-x #52 Posted 21 October 2020 - 03:03 PM

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View Postim_balthazur-p, on 20 October 2020 - 10:56 AM, said:

 

I suggest you watch a show called Band of Brothers. In one scene for operation Market Garden, a British tank commander cannot see a camouflaged tiger, even though a normal person did see it. That normal person was within 200 meters. The tank commander was probably 400 meters away. 
 

There is nothing true about True Vision.

 

Well, technically the British tank commander couldn't see the Tiger because it was tucked in against the building, just out of line of sight.  

 

I guess proxy spotting isn't a thing in real life, is it?  Either that, or the Tank commander had a really bad crew.

 

 :D



Jherry Angel-x #53 Posted 21 October 2020 - 03:15 PM

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View PostOtis Z Firefly-x, on 21 October 2020 - 02:55 PM, said:

 

Yes but the car didn't disappear at 100ft though, did it?

 

It's an analogy, so not to be taken literally.  But....the car would effectively 'disappear' ie you can no longer see it at some point between 100ft and 1 mile.  That distance would be dependant on a number of factors ie how good my eye-sight is (vision skills), if I have binoculars or relying on the unaided eye (optics), the size of the car (class of tank), colour of the car (camo and skills), stuff between me and the car (hard and soft cover), have I recently rubbed chilli into my eye accidentally (dmaged optics), am I drunk (Commander dead) etc etc.

 

Maybe the analogy would be better the other way around ie you are 1 mile away from the car and walking towards it - at what does the car become visible to the point you can say with certainty there really is a car in the imaginary field and able to point to that car?  Before that point, you cant see it and it is effectviely invisible to you.  It's exactly the same principle on which camo is based IRL - visual accuity is disrupted to the point you cannot aim at the target with any accuracy.  The tank is still there but you cant see it.

 

Another example - why has the tiger evolved to be orange with black stripes? Surely orange is totally the wrong colour?  Seems the case until you realise that most of its prey are unable to see the colour orange - they see orange as green.  To its prey, the tiger is effectively invisible - a green/black stripped thing against a sea of green and black/shadows.  Their visual accuity is zero until the tiger is moving and all but on-top of them.  Hence in the evolutionary arms-race, their prey rely on scent and hearing much more than sight to rely on staying safe/uneaten (along with eyes on the sides of their heads to maximise field of vision and forgoe stereoscopic sight).  Why tigers are not green is another matter. :teethhappy:

 

I totally get that in game you end up with instances where one moment you see, one moment you dont.  Bugs me totally but programmes are digital - on or off.  Some kind of blurring, loss of detail, and hence accuracy when firing at would be the optimal.  But how that system could be implemented and the processing power that would need for 30 different items all seeing clearly, seeing sort-of, or not relative to each other all that the same time takes it off the table, I suspect.

 

I'm happy to agree to disagree on this; same as for other forumers and my view of +1/-1 (let's not open that can of worms ;)).

 

Only time will tell if TV becomes a thing beyond tests - I know what impact it will have on me if it does.  I cant speak for others.

 

Happy tanking.


Edited by Jherry Angel-x, 21 October 2020 - 03:35 PM.


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Ghoest9-p #54 Posted 21 October 2020 - 04:59 PM

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View PostDrHorrible4Life-x, on 20 October 2020 - 09:23 PM, said:

I ordinarily don't look at stats when considering a player's point of view in a forum argument.  However, in this case it perfectly explains why someone would want to change the absolute core gameplay mechanic that separates this game from others in the genre.  Being negative in every category after 20k battles demonstrates not only a fundamental lack of understanding of the vision mechanics, but also an obvious disregard for learning how to play.  

 

Actually I have a great understanding of the existing vision mechanics. I guess you could say I havent learned how to play. But it would make more sense to just say I make choices most people wouldnt be happy with.

 

Im notorious for bad tactics if Im bottom tier(unless Im in a light.)

When I'm leveling tanks without upgrades I also just just play aggressive no matter what to get the matches over quick. 

And I play with a mobile style pretty much with every tank because I like that.  

 

Im not saying everyone should play like I do at all.  but its not because I dont understand how the game works. 

 



Turbo_RB20-p #55 Posted 21 October 2020 - 05:54 PM

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Nothing like spending thousands of dollars on a game because you like how the game is designed. I could have spent money on war thunder, don't like the game. Tanks is my game. I've spent more on this game than most people on this forum. I spent money on the game to help the devs improve what needed to be, not to turn the game into a completely different game. I have a right to voice my opinion when I've spent nearly a 10k on this game on multiple accounts, if not more. My tiers 10's were all free xp'd early on when I was a noob instead of grinding. Now I've gone back to play my 9's and previous tanks because I enjoy all my tanks now. This is my main played game anymore, I do not want to see them turn it into war thunder. I have vision issues so for me that's why I play and love tanks. They do this TV permanently? Me and my wallet are done with this game. I know A LOT of other people that spend even more than I did that would quit. So don't sit here and act like we are "whiners." More like most players are too lazy to learn anything in this game so you all want participation trophies.

AskingCupid78-x #56 Posted 21 October 2020 - 07:34 PM

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View PostTempest fox3-x, on 18 October 2020 - 01:07 PM, said:

 

WG seem too busy paying attention to the 49%ers who love the change because they never understood the spotting mechanics in the first place. 

 

Forget about the 49%ers, think about the 40%ers to 47%ers, there are plenty of them in the game now:facepalm:.

And calling those that complain about changing one of the core gamemechanics "Whiners" is immature to be polite:facepalm:.


Edited by AskingCupid78-x, 21 October 2020 - 07:51 PM.


AskingCupid78-x #57 Posted 21 October 2020 - 07:47 PM

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View PostGhoest9-p, on 21 October 2020 - 04:59 PM, said:

 

Actually I have a great understanding of the existing vision mechanics. I guess you could say I havent learned how to play. But it would make more sense to just say I make choices most people wouldnt be happy with.

 

Im notorious for bad tactics if Im bottom tier(unless Im in a light.)

When I'm leveling tanks without upgrades I also just just play aggressive no matter what to get the matches over quick. 

And I play with a mobile style pretty much with every tank because I like that.  

 

Im not saying everyone should play like I do at all.  but its not because I dont understand how the game works. 

 

 

So like others have said, no statshaming because i really dont care and think it is a poor debate tactic, but trying to improve is actually part of the game, it is fun to get better.

l EAT TACOS-x #58 Posted 21 October 2020 - 07:52 PM

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View PostTurbo_RB20-p, on 21 October 2020 - 05:54 PM, said:

Nothing like spending thousands of dollars on a game because you like how the game is designed. I could have spent money on war thunder, don't like the game. Tanks is my game. I've spent more on this game than most people on this forum. I spent money on the game to help the devs improve what needed to be, not to turn the game into a completely different game. I have a right to voice my opinion when I've spent nearly a 10k on this game on multiple accounts, if not more. My tiers 10's were all free xp'd early on when I was a noob instead of grinding. Now I've gone back to play my 9's and previous tanks because I enjoy all my tanks now. This is my main played game anymore, I do not want to see them turn it into war thunder. I have vision issues so for me that's why I play and love tanks. They do this TV permanently? Me and my wallet are done with this game. I know A LOT of other people that spend even more than I did that would quit. So don't sit here and act like we are "whiners." More like most players are too lazy to learn anything in this game so you all want participation trophies.

 

Maybe you should question your priorities and reading apprehension more than whining about a mechanic you dont like. 10k on a game seems a little nonsensical. You would never hear the end of it if I was related to you. 

The game license is what you are paying to use. Not own. You have the right to whine until forever and even quit if the changes are not to your liking. Complaining about spending 10k seems like you are irritated at your self for spending that kind of coin on a video game. WG has the right to make changes no matter the amount you have spent. 


Edited by l EAT TACOS-x, 21 October 2020 - 07:54 PM.


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View PostGhoest9-p, on 18 October 2020 - 07:38 AM, said:

How is invisibility at ranges this could be easily seen by any normal person, "better"

 

Its a ridiculous contrived mechanic that probably came into being because of hardware limitation. 

 

Render range is a contrived mechanic that was used due to 360 limitations. Spotting is not. The spotting system gives scouts a job to do beyond just direct damage. I missed out on a fair amount of spotting damage last weekend because people could just shoot things without me lighting them up. 

 

View range, spotting, and camo are factors that are used to balance tanks. TV removes them from having any relevance. TV also gives an advantage to people with the best systems and displays. WG has talked for years why we don't have 60 fps on the systems that can handle it. They said they wanted parity between systems. TV removes that parity. If they bring TV permanently, I will expect them to offer 60 fps to the systems that can handle it or they're just making crap up about parity.


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Mr Flak Yau-x #60 Posted 21 October 2020 - 10:26 PM

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View PostTocFanKe4-x, on 21 October 2020 - 12:02 PM, said:

 

Render range is a contrived mechanic that was used due to 360 limitations. Spotting is not. The spotting system gives scouts a job to do beyond just direct damage. I missed out on a fair amount of spotting damage last weekend because people could just shoot things without me lighting them up. 

 

View range, spotting, and camo are factors that are used to balance tanks. TV removes them from having any relevance. TV also gives an advantage to people with the best systems and displays. WG has talked for years why we don't have 60 fps on the systems that can handle it. They said they wanted parity between systems. TV removes that parity. If they bring TV permanently, I will expect them to offer 60 fps to the systems that can handle it or they're just making crap up about parity.

 

Best Systems and Display the same game. Just at different resolutions.

 






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