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WN8 And Spotting.

WN8 Spotting

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animatethant-x #41 Posted 16 November 2020 - 07:00 AM

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Wn8 infers the ability to output dmg ... which is an indicator of performance to a higher level although it's not all inclusive.

That's because not all dmg is "good dmg". Players that hide and do nothing and get overwhelmed at the end but can farm some dmg before expiring can actually accrue some significant wn8 along the way.

The important difference is that their win and survival rates are terrible.

Like garbage time points instead of important points when it matters most.

Marks of excellence is not the same as marks of damage.

What happens is that dmg is worth alot when striving for 3 marks. Being good at outputting dmg will usually get you to 2 marks but 3 marks usually requires significant consistent assisted dmg.

Usually it's required. To get 3 marks with high performance tanks you'd have to do consistent insane dmg only to get to 95%.

Tempest fox3-x #42 Posted 16 November 2020 - 07:51 AM

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View PostSirDerp-a-lot-p, on 16 November 2020 - 05:55 AM, said:

 

What would happen if you pick a "wrong" number?

 

The formula wouldn't have the intended affect and you've wasted your time making it. 


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SirDerp-a-lot-p #43 Posted 16 November 2020 - 02:08 PM

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View PostRubbelito-x, on 16 November 2020 - 07:03 AM, said:

You'll get skewed results, which would give easier and harder tanks to do well in (wn8 wise) and the end result would not give much information, which would make the whole thing irrelevant.

 

Irrelevant, O RLY?

 

What are "skewed" results, ie. against what do you measure the skewdness?

 

It's completely arbitrary. Once it's established, it sets the standards, so it will always be accurate.



SirDerp-a-lot-p #44 Posted 16 November 2020 - 02:11 PM

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View Postanimatethant-x, on 16 November 2020 - 08:00 AM, said:

Wn8 infers the ability to output dmg ... which is an indicator of performance to a higher level although it's not all inclusive.

 

So just like average damage then.

 

View Postanimatethant-x, on 16 November 2020 - 08:00 AM, said:

The important difference is that their win and survival rates are terrible.

 

So you'd have to look at more than one value to get the full picture. Who would've thunk?



SirDerp-a-lot-p #45 Posted 16 November 2020 - 02:13 PM

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View PostTempest fox3-x, on 16 November 2020 - 08:51 AM, said:

The formula wouldn't have the intended affect and you've wasted your time making it. 

 

Yeah, but what is the intended effect? Why is the the WN8 formula using a factor of 145 and not 144?



Rubbelito-x #46 Posted 16 November 2020 - 02:23 PM

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View PostSirDerp-a-lot-p, on 16 November 2020 - 03:08 PM, said:

 

Irrelevant, O RLY?

 

What are "skewed" results, ie. against what do you measure the skewdness?

 

It's completely arbitrary. Once it's established, it sets the standards, so it will always be accurate.

 

O rly?

LOL

You haven't noticed that wn8 has scale ratings?

If you just make up a number you could make the majority of players "bad", or "unicum" or whatever, instead of hitting the "average" for the majority.

It will also make different tanks look better or worse than what they really are.

That's not how ratings work.

I can't even believe I have to tell you this.



Kaptain Proton-x #47 Posted 16 November 2020 - 02:45 PM

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I may be asking a real stupid question.  So be gentle with me.  Just trying to understand the differences between, wn8, MOE, and base XP.  

 

I know what WN8 is and I think it has been well explained.

 

Just to confirm.  MOE is just dmg + asdmg.

 

What I don't fully understand is what it takes to get a Master badge.  I am assuming it is directly tied to base xp but I don't understand what it takes to get the xp.  

 

Here is where the potential stupid part is.  Whatever the formula that is used for xp.  Why isn't that used instead of Wn8?  If that is dumb then what is the differences between the two?



Rubbelito-x #48 Posted 16 November 2020 - 02:54 PM

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View PostKaptain Proton-x, on 16 November 2020 - 03:45 PM, said:

Just to confirm.  MOE is just dmg + asdmg.

 

What I don't fully understand is what it takes to get a Master badge.  I am assuming it is directly tied to base xp but I don't understand what it takes to get the xp.  

 

Here is where the potential stupid part is.  Whatever the formula that is used for xp.  Why isn't that used instead of Wn8?  If that is dumb then what is the differences between the two?

 

1. yes (That's assdmg™ btw).

2. The Mastery is relative to how the player base is doing in terms of XP for that particular tank. Some tanks give the Ace below 1500 base xp and other tanks require closer to (or even above) 2k, all depending on how the rest of the players perform.

3. XP is also given out to other factors (like first spot, capping etc.) than the most important ones (damage, kills, assist)  so while it's not a horrible metric, it isn't the best in terms of skill.



SirDerp-a-lot-p #49 Posted 16 November 2020 - 03:04 PM

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View PostRubbelito-x, on 16 November 2020 - 03:23 PM, said:

You haven't noticed that wn8 has scale ratings?

If you just make up a number you could make the majority of players "bad", or "unicum" or whatever, instead of hitting the "average" for the majority.

 

So instead of eg. using the range between 500 to 2000 for most players, WN9 would use the area of 5000 to 20000?

 

View PostRubbelito-x, on 16 November 2020 - 03:23 PM, said:

I can't even believe I have to tell you this.

 

I can't believe that I have to tell you that the whole thing does not make sense.



mockney_piers-p #50 Posted 16 November 2020 - 03:06 PM

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View PostKaptain Proton-x, on 16 November 2020 - 02:45 PM, said:

 

Here is where the potential stupid part is.  Whatever the formula that is used for xp.  Why isn't that used instead of Wn8?  If that is dumb then what is the differences between the two?

 

One of the other problems is that the XP reported on the API it takes premium time into account, so it isn't a level playing field for player comparison. 



Rubbelito-x #51 Posted 16 November 2020 - 03:07 PM

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View PostSirDerp-a-lot-p, on 16 November 2020 - 04:04 PM, said:

 

So instead of eg. using the range between 500 to 2000 for most players, WN9 would use the area of 5000 to 20000?

 

 

I can't believe that I have to tell you that the whole thing does not make sense.

 

I'm starting to realize why you thought this would be an easy task. :facepalm:

M4ntiX-x #52 Posted 16 November 2020 - 03:08 PM

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View PostRubbelito-x, on 16 November 2020 - 03:07 PM, said:

 

I'm starting to realize why you thought this would be an easy task. :facepalm:

 

Really... it took you that long or are you just being polite? ;)

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Rubbelito-x #53 Posted 16 November 2020 - 03:10 PM

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View Postmockney_piers-p, on 16 November 2020 - 04:06 PM, said:

 

One of the other problems is that the XP reported on the API it takes premium time into account, so it isn't a level playing field for player comparison. 

 

That's a valid point I didn't think of.

So the XP you see on e.g. wotstars is base + premium time/tank addition?

 

View PostM4ntiX-x, on 16 November 2020 - 04:08 PM, said:

 

Really... it took you that long or are you just being polite? ;)

 

:rolleyes:

 

 

 


Edited by Rubbelito-x, 16 November 2020 - 03:11 PM.


SirDerp-a-lot-p #54 Posted 16 November 2020 - 03:12 PM

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View PostKaptain Proton-x, on 16 November 2020 - 03:45 PM, said:

Just to confirm.  MOE is just dmg + asdmg.

 

In fact it's dmg + max(radiodmg, trackdmg).

 

View PostKaptain Proton-x, on 16 November 2020 - 03:45 PM, said:

What I don't fully understand is what it takes to get a Master badge.  I am assuming it is directly tied to base xp but I don't understand what it takes to get the xp.

 

Base XP per tank, plus (I think) in certain cases some awards that would increase your base XP (for the purpose of master badges) if your team lost the game.

 

View PostKaptain Proton-x, on 16 November 2020 - 03:45 PM, said:

Here is where the potential stupid part is.  Whatever the formula that is used for xp.  Why isn't that used instead of Wn8?  If that is dumb then what is the differences between the two?

 

Some people didn't like the arbitrary numbers used for base XP, so they came up with their own set of arbitrary numbers.



SirDerp-a-lot-p #55 Posted 16 November 2020 - 03:18 PM

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View PostRubbelito-x, on 16 November 2020 - 04:07 PM, said:

I'm starting to realize why you thought this would be an easy task. :facepalm:

 

No explanation, just slightly insulting internet memes? Already out of explanation for the number salad you conjured up?

 

That's what I said from the beginning: It's toxic, not only for some players working to improve it, but apparently also for people trying to find new arbitrary numbers. I think you take those number too seriously, and your reaction clearly shows that: Why else would you react that way if someone mocks them? It's just some bloody numbers, fgs.

 

Maybe, just maybe, if you can't explain it, there is nothing to explain.



mockney_piers-p #56 Posted 16 November 2020 - 03:18 PM

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View PostRubbelito-x, on 16 November 2020 - 03:10 PM, said:

 

That's a valid point I didn't think of.

So the XP you see on e.g. wotstars is base + premium time/tank addition?

 

 

Yes, in fact it's hard to tell exactly what it consists of, as I've noticed weird numbers from time to time, so there may even be some other bonuses factored in, but hard to reverse engineer. I'm 100% sure that premium time is a factor though.

Maybe ask WG, they're really good at communicating that sort of info ;)


Edited by mockney_piers-p, 16 November 2020 - 03:20 PM.


SirDerp-a-lot-p #57 Posted 16 November 2020 - 03:19 PM

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View Postmockney_piers-p, on 16 November 2020 - 04:06 PM, said:

One of the other problems is that the XP reported on the API it takes premium time into account, so it isn't a level playing field for player comparison. 

 

That's a limitation of the API, but what about the value itself?

 

Strange idea BTW to not simply export XP.



Rubbelito-x #58 Posted 16 November 2020 - 03:21 PM

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View PostSirDerp-a-lot-p, on 16 November 2020 - 04:18 PM, said:

 

No explanation, just slightly insulting internet memes? Already out of explanation for the number salad you conjured up?

 

That's what I said from the beginning: It's toxic, not only for some players working to improve it, but apparently also for people trying to find new arbitrary numbers. I think you take those number too seriously, and your reaction clearly shows that: Why else would you react that way if someone mocks them? It's just some bloody numbers, fgs.

 

Maybe, just maybe, if you can't explain it, there is nothing to explain.

 

If you could read, there are explanations available further up the thread.

 

View Postmockney_piers-p, on 16 November 2020 - 04:18 PM, said:

 

Yes, in fact it's hard to tell as I've noticed weird numbers from time to time, so there may even be some other bonuses factored in, but hard to reverse engineer.

Maybe ask WG, they're really good at communicating that sort of info ;)

I'll see what I can do.



mockney_piers-p #59 Posted 16 November 2020 - 03:22 PM

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View PostSirDerp-a-lot-p, on 16 November 2020 - 03:19 PM, said:

 

That's a limitation of the API, but what about the value itself?

 

Strange idea BTW to not simply export XP.

 

It should be the best metric out there (if you could get a consistent figure from the API) but I have to say I've been pretty mystified by some post game leaderboards.

 

I remember last week having less that my toon mate, despite having more damage and more assisted, and I bounced more and I did it face hugging the enemy, but, you know, 4 places below him...like...what?!?!?!

 

Bottom line is it's a black box.



SirDerp-a-lot-p #60 Posted 16 November 2020 - 03:22 PM

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View PostRubbelito-x, on 16 November 2020 - 04:07 PM, said:

I'm starting to realize why you thought this would be an easy task. :facepalm:

 

BTW, I already delivered. Now the ball is on your court. Show us why any number is better than any other number.







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