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The importantce of camo

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MtMCfreitl-p #1 Posted 22 November 2020 - 10:05 AM

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Hi everyone,

 

most of the time when I'm on the forum and read something about why a tank is good ect. most people mention parameters like: gun depression, turret armor,... but rarely the importance of camo/concealment is discussed :bush:.

 

I want to mention a few examples:

  • Leopard 1 has a very good gun and is one of the most accurate tanks in the game. But without his camo value it can't perform as it does.
  • Obj. 140/T62A/430 are the "jack of all trades" medium, they can everything. But without the great camo values it wouldn't be possible to suddenly appear and disappear and make the DPM work.
  • Obj. 430U, is as most people say the best medium in the game....it can be played as a heavy and as a medium, but why? In my opinion this is possible because you have the camo and mobility of a medium and the gun of a heavy. This cominbation makes it so powerful.
  • same for the T10/Obj.277/IS7....for heavys they have pretty good camo values. I have trained the camo skill on these tanks and now they can be played as mediums

 

Those are just a few examples...

Maybe you have other examples on which tanks the camo value makes the difference...feel free to share them with us ;)

 

Just to mention...for my playstyle camo is one if the important things, that's why I'm scared about permament TV :ohmy:

 

How do you think? Is camo an important parameter for your playstyle? 

 

EDIT:
I do not mean the camo on a tank. I mean the
camo/concealment values a tank has itself and can be improoved with camo skill etc.


Edited by MtMCfreitl-p, 22 November 2020 - 10:59 AM.


IBROX 04-x #2 Posted 22 November 2020 - 10:15 AM

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No point purchasing camo with true vision an event or whatever they call it now. I'm just wondering if I'll get my gold back for all the camouflage I've bought over the years. 

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FallenOnABruise-x #3 Posted 22 November 2020 - 10:25 AM

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Not to mention training a crew and buying a camo net.....

MtMCfreitl-p #4 Posted 22 November 2020 - 10:44 AM

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To clarify I mean the importance of camo as an in-game parameter not the camo you can buy...

I think it is called concealment on the website....
Sorry for lack of clarity...English isn't my main language  


Edited by MtMCfreitl-p, 22 November 2020 - 10:49 AM.


kingrich06-x #5 Posted 22 November 2020 - 11:06 AM

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View PostIBROX 04-x, on 22 November 2020 - 05:15 AM, said:

No point purchasing camo with true vision an event or whatever they call it now. I'm just wondering if I'll get my gold back for all the camouflage I've bought over the years. 

 

lol any why call it true vision when basic camo rules do not apply...  

my brother always make fun of my Captured KV-1 because its only paint scheme is white...  unless you are in the middle of the arctic conditions in a white out winter map that paint scheme works well..and only in a "true vision" winter map  its camo works.  you will be hidden when there is no red outline of your vehicle when you are not "targeted or detected", what happens when you bring this white tank in a jungle environment.... it will stick out like a sore thumb..... white is not a natural colour in summer/arid in most urban environments... when u look downrange and see a white spot moving ....easy detections.  

ie all tanks with perm unique paint jobs like the cap kv1, bog horror, rover flag painted tanks ie frostbite, knight, freedom, hotwheel tanks, tanks with big white graffiti ie the wrestling tanks..  are easy targetsif WG implements true vision...   unless they "repaint" all of these tanks and stop selling clear coat bonus schemes which add a camo value as what we have now.

I highly doubt WG will compensate owners of these tanks or will they repaint all tanks to be able to fit into the true vision plan they have.

IMO all the previously paid camo is money I have wasted ...  many players have wasted lots $$$ on unique tanks because of the historical or special paint jobs which are great on parades or museums but not intended on the battlefield...  I doubt we will get compensation or anything will be done to help these tanks "blend" in the tv maps  I actually paid for 4x camo on all my tier Xs, all the camo on all 219 gold tanks all seems to be wasted $$$

 

All this true vision stuff wg is so proud of, they forgot that they have been selling a game which had red outlines for targetting and true sighting camouflage did not exist in the world we have been playing on for over 7 years, they never put a thought about the basics of camouflage on tanks and how it really works with this new TV idea of theirs.  

 

 


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SPUK4U-p #6 Posted 22 November 2020 - 11:12 AM

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Camo is definitely something that all players should go if tank has good base values that allow enhancement with skills and equipment.   If base value is low adding +10% of total camo boost to something that is almost zero does not affect much as end result is still almost zero.

 

When I tune up my tanks it's all about these two green vision and white detection rings in the mimimap that count. I believe that most of the players do not know how to use them efficiently.

 


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IBROX 04-x #7 Posted 22 November 2020 - 03:21 PM

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View Postkingrich06-x, on 22 November 2020 - 11:06 AM, said:

 

lol any why call it true vision when basic camo rules do not apply...  

my brother always make fun of my Captured KV-1 because its only paint scheme is white...  unless you are in the middle of the arctic conditions in a white out winter map that paint scheme works well..and only in a "true vision" winter map  its camo works.  you will be hidden when there is no red outline of your vehicle when you are not "targeted or detected", what happens when you bring this white tank in a jungle environment.... it will stick out like a sore thumb..... white is not a natural colour in summer/arid in most urban environments... when u look downrange and see a white spot moving ....easy detections.  

ie all tanks with perm unique paint jobs like the cap kv1, bog horror, rover flag painted tanks ie frostbite, knight, freedom, hotwheel tanks, tanks with big white graffiti ie the wrestling tanks..  are easy targetsif WG implements true vision...   unless they "repaint" all of these tanks and stop selling clear coat bonus schemes which add a camo value as what we have now.

I highly doubt WG will compensate owners of these tanks or will they repaint all tanks to be able to fit into the true vision plan they have.

IMO all the previously paid camo is money I have wasted ...  many players have wasted lots $$$ on unique tanks because of the historical or special paint jobs which are great on parades or museums but not intended on the battlefield...  I doubt we will get compensation or anything will be done to help these tanks "blend" in the tv maps  I actually paid for 4x camo on all my tier Xs, all the camo on all 219 gold tanks all seems to be wasted $$$

 

All this true vision stuff wg is so proud of, they forgot that they have been selling a game which had red outlines for targetting and true sighting camouflage did not exist in the world we have been playing on for over 7 years, they never put a thought about the basics of camouflage on tanks and how it really works with this new TV idea of theirs.  

 

 

 

Aye anno. WG won't deal or do anything about camouflage bought with gold/real money. Everyone knows that they'll just do the usual and ignore it and yet it will add to the salt that this game produces + more unhappy customers that will be ignored as usual. But sadly this game has a history of opening a can of worms and not thinking about the implications it causes. 

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FallenOnABruise-x #8 Posted 22 November 2020 - 03:27 PM

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Lots of ideas to negate money spent by existing players and introduce new 'exciting' developments to convince new players to pay their way.

SILVRCAT-x #9 Posted 22 November 2020 - 03:34 PM

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Any tank parameter or any crew skill/perk that can be increased to give you an advantage or improves your game is a must to have. 

I agree that increasing camo values gives you a better edge over someone who doesn’t improve them.

Same as with the use of Equipment. The better players are those who take full advantage on all of these conditions. 

 



Pontiac Pat-x #10 Posted 22 November 2020 - 06:31 PM

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Camo is very important for many tanks.  For mediums, lights, and most TDs it's one of the first 4 skills I train.  Some tanks rely so heavily on their camo that they are garbage before you train the skill and completely transformed once you have it trained.

 

On a side note, this is one reason why certain premium tanks don't really make good trainers for new crews.  They are more fitting as 'advanced trainers' because the crew needs to be 100% and have at least Camo skill trained before they can work as intended.


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Panthergraf-x #11 Posted 22 November 2020 - 07:34 PM

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Camo ain‘t a factor anymore after 6 years - at least in Tiers IX and X. Most tanks have 400m+ base view range, good crews, optics, equipment, food. And the lobbys are pested with 2, 3 or more LTs.

The camo vs viewrange game works in Tiers IV-VII with Ninjas like the Hidden, Flatpanzer and E 25. Those have the highest camo values and fight against tanks with 300-370m base view range, green crews, cheesy equipment. And the lower Tier LTs are pretty softy.

kingrich06-x #12 Posted 22 November 2020 - 11:51 PM

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IT seems like WG and most players only consider the numerical and percentages of what camo is on a tank as the skill or any skills which it affects.

I am talking about what we visually see..ie WITH True Vision while scanning the ridgeline, when we zoom in, with this new detection and vision system we are able to see the tanks either moving or firing but we do not get a red outline (we have to manually target) and cannot autolock.  With this said, we have to use our real life vision and therefor camouflage (not skill ingame) but the way the tank is able to visually hide behind the scenery behind it.  As in my post above, TV negates any such use of our real vision and ability to hide from the reds when we use different camo schemes to hide our tanks.  And all other non combat paint schemes (ie bright or white colours, glow in the dark paint schemes etc) are basically useless with TV.

Even the detection system we have now, the red outline (or purple for colour blind mode), having the class symbol and the gamertag and name on top of the tanks negate our ability to have to find tanks, just look for the name/symbol and red outline and based on that you know where to shoot at the weakspots (easy explaination), even the bumper can simply scan where your turret is facing and when you press it, and if autolock kicks in you know there is an exposed red n that direction.  

I am guessing WG will go ahead with this TV no matter what the community thinks or says since most other tank Games like war Thunder and Armoured warframe have a True Vision style of gameplay and WG wants to update that decade old system we have now.  Unfortunately change is had for many of the veteran players who have been accustomed to the current system.

 


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isic-x #13 Posted 23 November 2020 - 03:55 PM

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View Postkingrich06-x, on 22 November 2020 - 04:51 PM, said:

IT seems like WG and most players only consider the numerical and percentages of what camo is on a tank as the skill or any skills which it affects.

I am talking about what we visually see..ie WITH True Vision while scanning the ridgeline, when we zoom in, with this new detection and vision system we are able to see the tanks either moving or firing but we do not get a red outline (we have to manually target) and cannot autolock.  With this said, we have to use our real life vision and therefor camouflage (not skill ingame) but the way the tank is able to visually hide behind the scenery behind it.  As in my post above, TV negates any such use of our real vision and ability to hide from the reds when we use different camo schemes to hide our tanks.  And all other non combat paint schemes (ie bright or white colours, glow in the dark paint schemes etc) are basically useless with TV.

Even the detection system we have now, the red outline (or purple for colour blind mode), having the class symbol and the gamertag and name on top of the tanks negate our ability to have to find tanks, just look for the name/symbol and red outline and based on that you know where to shoot at the weakspots (easy explaination), even the bumper can simply scan where your turret is facing and when you press it, and if autolock kicks in you know there is an exposed red n that direction.  

I am guessing WG will go ahead with this TV no matter what the community thinks or says since most other tank Games like war Thunder and Armoured warframe have a True Vision style of gameplay and WG wants to update that decade old system we have now.  Unfortunately change is had for many of the veteran players who have been accustomed to the current system.

 

 

For what it's worth, on the last True Vision test WG's data showed that "bright" tanks or tanks with colorful camo actually performed better during True Vision. For me, it was indeed easier to see the "bright" tanks during True Vision so I get what you are saying. I think there should be a monochrome filter or something implemented in True Vision that keeps all enemy tanks undiscernible by color until they are spotted. 

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FredARC77-x #15 Posted Today, 05:52 AM

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Sorry for being a bit dense but, will you please clarify how a red tank will appear with True Vision?

I understand that I will no longer see the red outline of the tank and instead, will see the tank itself, or what you can of it through the foreground/background landscape that may be aiding in hiding/camouflaging the red tank, is that correct?

Will the red tank still have camo ratings that will decrease if it moves or fires?   What will I see, will I see the red tank more clearly?



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View PostMtMCfreitl-p, on 22 November 2020 - 10:05 AM, said:

Hi everyone,

 

most of the time when I'm on the forum and read something about why a tank is good ect. most people mention parameters like: gun depression, turret armor,... but rarely the importance of camo/concealment is discussed :bush:.

 

I want to mention a few examples:

  • Leopard 1 has a very good gun and is one of the most accurate tanks in the game. But without his camo value it can't perform as it does.
  • Obj. 140/T62A/430 are the "jack of all trades" medium, they can everything. But without the great camo values it wouldn't be possible to suddenly appear and disappear and make the DPM work.
  • Obj. 430U, is as most people say the best medium in the game....it can be played as a heavy and as a medium, but why? In my opinion this is possible because you have the camo and mobility of a medium and the gun of a heavy. This cominbation makes it so powerful.
  • same for the T10/Obj.277/IS7....for heavys they have pretty good camo values. I have trained the camo skill on these tanks and now they can be played as mediums

 

Those are just a few examples...

Maybe you have other examples on which tanks the camo value makes the difference...feel free to share them with us ;)

 

Just to mention...for my playstyle camo is one if the important things, that's why I'm scared about permament TV :ohmy:

 

How do you think? Is camo an important parameter for your playstyle? 

 

EDIT:
I do not mean the camo on a tank. I mean the
camo/concealment values a tank has itself and can be improoved with camo skill etc.

Well You have mentioned the Leo, but all (most) the mediums will do the same if you ask them. Its the relocate and repeat the leo does better. I think its the brits that have worst in class and its still usful to them

As for TV it does allow for some uttlerly daft shots that 95% of tanks shouldnt even try, 1 guy seeing you wiggle in a bush vs a whole gun line is 2 different things. TV doent kill camo.

My leo crew also likes pz3k, not the best camo base but its tier 5 so top crew skills save you, just kill all the shermans 1st and you will do better

British lights are stealth spotters, and they really good at it.

My trail bazer also likes its net and leo crew, 250m from 10s trying to figure out whats spotting them

The 50-2 has a WG dumbness camo value, most owners dont even know it

The 907 is stealth, 

E5 is not (dumbest camo value ever) considering its relatively small weight, size and profile



M4ntiX-x #17 Posted Today, 01:37 PM

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View Postisic-x, on 23 November 2020 - 03:55 PM, said:

 

For what it's worth, on the last True Vision test WG's data showed that "bright" tanks or tanks with colorful camo actually performed better during True Vision.

 

Care to share a link to this official WG "data?" I don't recall seeing it anywhere.

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Ghoest9-p #18 Posted Today, 02:01 PM

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Id have to agree its not as important as it could be in tier 10 compared to say tier 6. 

With mediums you depend more on peak and shoot than on camo. 

 

That said its still the second skill I put on every tank except some heavies. Any time you are hidden is valuable. 

 

But tanks hat regularly can shoot from camo at tier 10 is now pretty much just lights with nets.

 

 



FinlandRed-x #19 Posted Today, 02:04 PM

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View PostM4ntiX-x, on 25 November 2020 - 01:37 PM, said:

 

Care to share a link to this official WG "data?" I don't recall seeing it anywhere.

 

It was in one of Jeffs streams. He mentioned it when talking about the results of TV.

 

Tomorrow night?



M4ntiX-x #20 Posted Today, 02:07 PM

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View PostFinlandRed-x, on 25 November 2020 - 02:04 PM, said:

 

It was in one of Jeffs streams. He mentioned it when talking about the results of TV.

 

Tomorrow night?

 

Yeah, he was surprised. Sure. No wonder, I bet most people that played their glitter tanks didn't even know True Vision was on.

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