Jump to content


Type 5 HE splash


  • Please log in to reply
17 replies to this topic

Devilman05-p #1 Posted 15 September 2021 - 01:15 PM

    Staff sergeant

  • Players
  • 37655 battles
  • 483
  • [COINA]
  • Member since:
    06-23-2016

I know this is probably working as intended but it doesnt feel right... someone behind cover with only the barrel hanging out.. guess these things are backup arty now

 

https://youtu.be/2N3cqQGbgNY

 



EIIoco ger-x #2 Posted 15 September 2021 - 01:28 PM

    First lieutenant

  • Players
  • 20580 battles
  • 794
  • [NFFY]
  • Member since:
    03-02-2018

As far es i know that is the mechanic like you mention it.

 

If someone does not know:

When you hit with HE the damage is not calculated by the exact spot you hit. There ist some strange calculation of the splash. Kinda the weakest part of armor in direct like from the hit point where the HE inpacted is used to calculate the actual penetration/damage.

 

Something like that, not entirely sure.

 


Spoiler
“Intelligence is the ability to adapt to change.” – Stephen Hawking

Tempest fox3-x #3 Posted 15 September 2021 - 02:18 PM

    Major

  • Beta Tester
  • 26884 battles
  • 25,368
  • [JOCO]
  • Member since:
    08-22-2013

View PostDevilman05-p, on 15 September 2021 - 01:15 PM, said:

I know this is probably working as intended but it doesnt feel right... someone behind cover with only the barrel hanging out.. guess these things are backup arty now

 

https://youtu.be/2N3cqQGbgNY

 

 

I was shooting a hull down Valour (T95/Fv201 chieftain) for 600ish per shot the other day while he couldn't pen me at all. Type 5 is about as fun and engaging to fight as I predicted it would be with the alpha change. Alpha needs to be lowered to 1100 ish. 

 

View PostEIIoco ger-x, on 15 September 2021 - 01:28 PM, said:

As far es i know that is the mechanic like you mention it.

 

If someone does not know:

When you hit with HE the damage is not calculated by the exact spot you hit. There ist some strange calculation of the splash. Kinda the weakest part of armor in direct like from the hit point where the HE inpacted is used to calculate the actual penetration/damage.

 

Something like that, not entirely sure.

 

 

The game draws a sphere around the detonation point based on the splash AoE range of the gun. It will then calculate the damage at the thinest (usually) the thinnest point. The further away from the center of the detonation it is the more alpha is lost. 

 

The issue is this gun has too much alpha. So even losing 75% or more of the alpha means that a non-pen splash will hit for in excess of 300. 


War is a Democracy and the enemy always gets a vote.

3 MoE's: E-25, M41 Walker Bulldog, E-50, Snakebite, E-75, T32, Tiger 131, Skoda T25, Boilermaker, Sentinel AC4 Experimental, M41B Brazil, Obj.416, Cromwell Knight, M551 Sheridan (Cold war) - In order obtained

 

Spoiler

natedaishmaster-x #4 Posted 15 September 2021 - 02:39 PM

    Captain

  • Players
  • 30037 battles
  • 1,788
  • [IMTLS]
  • Member since:
    07-29-2014

View PostTempest fox3-x, on 15 September 2021 - 06:18 AM, said:

 

I was shooting a hull down Valour (T95/Fv201 chieftain) for 600ish per shot the other day while he couldn't pen me at all. Type 5 is about as fun and engaging to fight as I predicted it would be with the alpha change. Alpha needs to be lowered to 1100 ish. 

A hull down Valour will murder a type 5, but requires premium to do it. The type 5 still has meh armor against prem and low DPM but now it can actually effectively dig out tanks in strong positions which is a welcome change. It's far from OP but it is a bit broken if you're not willing to fire prem (which honestly is the case for a large number of tanks now)


3 MOE: Hellcat, Lycan, Sp1C, T20, M41 Bulldog, Motherland, STA 1, T95E2, Pershing, AMX 50 100, AMX 13 90, T54ltwt, T49, RU251, M46 Patton, Type 61, Leopard PTA, T54, E50, Batchat AP, Skoda T50, Centurion 7/1, Sharpshooter, T10, Conquerer, AMX 13 105, Sheridan, T-100LT, RHM PZW, M60, Chisel, M48 Patton, Leopard 1, E50M, Obj 140, Batchat 25t, TVP 50/51, AMX 50B, Valour, IS7, Super Conqueror, The Machine, Chieftain, FV215B, T110E4


Tempest fox3-x #5 Posted 15 September 2021 - 02:56 PM

    Major

  • Beta Tester
  • 26884 battles
  • 25,368
  • [JOCO]
  • Member since:
    08-22-2013

View Postnatedaishmaster-x, on 15 September 2021 - 02:39 PM, said:

A hull down Valour will murder a type 5, but requires premium to do it. The type 5 still has meh armor against prem and low DPM but now it can actually effectively dig out tanks in strong positions which is a welcome change. It's far from OP but it is a bit broken if you're not willing to fire prem (which honestly is the case for a large number of tanks now)

 

I dislike tanks that don't have frontal weakspots. It doesn't reward user skill or knowledge. Such tanks are (IMO) not good for the game because it is not skillful on either the drivers part or the opposition. Driver either gets to trundle around effectively immortal as they derp things to death with a gun that doesn't care about aiming for weakspots. Or the opposition loads premium ammo and turns them into swiss cheese. There's not really any skill involved for either party. 

 

When I'm playing the Type 5 I either have a great game because I was able to just murder people. Or I die because the armour doesn't work and the tank has no mobility so you can't outmanuver the guy who's killing you with prammo spam and when I come up against them I become that guy who just presses A and loads the premium ammo because screw trying to deal with it any other way when most maps actively discourage flanking. 


War is a Democracy and the enemy always gets a vote.

3 MoE's: E-25, M41 Walker Bulldog, E-50, Snakebite, E-75, T32, Tiger 131, Skoda T25, Boilermaker, Sentinel AC4 Experimental, M41B Brazil, Obj.416, Cromwell Knight, M551 Sheridan (Cold war) - In order obtained

 

Spoiler

natedaishmaster-x #6 Posted 15 September 2021 - 03:06 PM

    Captain

  • Players
  • 30037 battles
  • 1,788
  • [IMTLS]
  • Member since:
    07-29-2014

View PostTempest fox3-x, on 15 September 2021 - 06:56 AM, said:

 

I dislike tanks that don't have frontal weakspots. It doesn't reward user skill or knowledge. Such tanks are (IMO) not good for the game because it is not skillful on either the drivers part or the opposition. Driver either gets to trundle around effectively immortal as they derp things to death with a gun that doesn't care about aiming for weakspots. Or the opposition loads premium ammo and turns them into swiss cheese. There's not really any skill involved for either party. 

 

Yeah but this has been a problem for a while, the Type 5 is far from unique in this category. Heck, the recent balance changes removed a lot of the weakspots from tier Xs in general. Several tier Xs are almost immune to damage when hiding their lower plates, regardless of prem being fired. The Type 5 at least has to expose itself to do damage in every scenario which is the trade off for very low brawling exposure time (rbrt with HE).

3 MOE: Hellcat, Lycan, Sp1C, T20, M41 Bulldog, Motherland, STA 1, T95E2, Pershing, AMX 50 100, AMX 13 90, T54ltwt, T49, RU251, M46 Patton, Type 61, Leopard PTA, T54, E50, Batchat AP, Skoda T50, Centurion 7/1, Sharpshooter, T10, Conquerer, AMX 13 105, Sheridan, T-100LT, RHM PZW, M60, Chisel, M48 Patton, Leopard 1, E50M, Obj 140, Batchat 25t, TVP 50/51, AMX 50B, Valour, IS7, Super Conqueror, The Machine, Chieftain, FV215B, T110E4


Tempest fox3-x #7 Posted 15 September 2021 - 03:12 PM

    Major

  • Beta Tester
  • 26884 battles
  • 25,368
  • [JOCO]
  • Member since:
    08-22-2013

View Postnatedaishmaster-x, on 15 September 2021 - 03:06 PM, said:

 

Yeah but this has been a problem for a while, the Type 5 is far from unique in this category. Heck, the recent balance changes removed a lot of the weakspots from tier Xs in general. Several tier Xs are almost immune to damage when hiding their lower plates, regardless of prem being fired. The Type 5 at least has to expose itself to do damage in every scenario which is the trade off for very low brawling exposure time (rbrt with HE).

 

Yes, and I have vocally objected to every change that has resulted in tanks having no frontal weakspots. Sadly it seems most other people are perfectly fine with tanks being virtually invulnerable frontally. 

 

I do find it funny that the same players who love changes like this are also the ones who often complaint about premium ammo usage. Maybe if you don't want premium ammo to be spammed at you, don't advocate for changes that make it mandatory to do damage to certain vehicles?


War is a Democracy and the enemy always gets a vote.

3 MoE's: E-25, M41 Walker Bulldog, E-50, Snakebite, E-75, T32, Tiger 131, Skoda T25, Boilermaker, Sentinel AC4 Experimental, M41B Brazil, Obj.416, Cromwell Knight, M551 Sheridan (Cold war) - In order obtained

 

Spoiler

natedaishmaster-x #8 Posted 15 September 2021 - 03:39 PM

    Captain

  • Players
  • 30037 battles
  • 1,788
  • [IMTLS]
  • Member since:
    07-29-2014

View PostTempest fox3-x, on 15 September 2021 - 07:12 AM, said:

 

Yes, and I have vocally objected to every change that has resulted in tanks having no frontal weakspots. Sadly it seems most other people are perfectly fine with tanks being virtually invulnerable frontally. 

 

I do find it funny that the same players who love changes like this are also the ones who often complaint about premium ammo usage. Maybe if you don't want premium ammo to be spammed at you, don't advocate for changes that make it mandatory to do damage to certain vehicles?

 

I guess I personally have an unfair opinion on this because I will only fire prem at a Type 5 (and fire 2/3 prem in general) so I don't view it as a big issue. I'd argue that the Type 5 is less of an issue than the rest because it is much less flexible. It's meant to be a HP trading tank and when it can't do that, it falls off very quickly

3 MOE: Hellcat, Lycan, Sp1C, T20, M41 Bulldog, Motherland, STA 1, T95E2, Pershing, AMX 50 100, AMX 13 90, T54ltwt, T49, RU251, M46 Patton, Type 61, Leopard PTA, T54, E50, Batchat AP, Skoda T50, Centurion 7/1, Sharpshooter, T10, Conquerer, AMX 13 105, Sheridan, T-100LT, RHM PZW, M60, Chisel, M48 Patton, Leopard 1, E50M, Obj 140, Batchat 25t, TVP 50/51, AMX 50B, Valour, IS7, Super Conqueror, The Machine, Chieftain, FV215B, T110E4


Devilman05-p #9 Posted 15 September 2021 - 03:41 PM

    Staff sergeant

  • Players
  • 37655 battles
  • 483
  • [COINA]
  • Member since:
    06-23-2016

I personally dont think the amount of prammo fired at the jap heavies has changed considerably.. it has always been a magnet for it.. 

 



Pit Friend-x #10 Posted 15 September 2021 - 09:52 PM

    Major

  • Players
  • 39619 battles
  • 22,807
  • [PTATO]
  • Member since:
    07-14-2014

View PostDevilman05-p, on 15 September 2021 - 08:15 AM, said:

I know this is probably working as intended but it doesnt feel right... someone behind cover with only the barrel hanging out.. guess these things are backup arty now

 

https://youtu.be/2N3cqQGbgNY

 

 

Well yes, it has a 150mm howitzer as its top gun. The HE has the same splash as many of the artillery guns in the game because of this. It is literally horizontal artillery in a mobile bunker. 

I don’t know how to act my age! I’ve never been this old before!


Haukkis-x #11 Posted 15 September 2021 - 10:37 PM

    Major

  • Players
  • 40867 battles
  • 6,286
  • Member since:
    08-05-2015

View PostTempest fox3-x, on 15 September 2021 - 03:18 PM, said:

 

I was shooting a hull down Valour (T95/Fv201 chieftain) for 600ish per shot the other day while he couldn't pen me at all. Type 5 is about as fun and engaging to fight as I predicted it would be with the alpha change. Alpha needs to be lowered to 1100 ish. 

 

 

The game draws a sphere around the detonation point based on the splash AoE range of the gun. It will then calculate the damage at the thinest (usually) the thinnest point. The further away from the center of the detonation it is the more alpha is lost. 

 

The issue is this gun has too much alpha. So even losing 75% or more of the alpha means that a non-pen splash will hit for in excess of 300. 

600 dmg to hull-down Valour? That's really nice RNG. One day, I shot IS-7's hull and only dealt 230 dmg to him with Type 5's derp gun.



RaggaMuffinReap-x #12 Posted 15 September 2021 - 11:14 PM

    Major

  • Players
  • 38792 battles
  • 2,202
  • [DOOMU]
  • Member since:
    02-13-2014

View PostHaukkis-x, on 15 September 2021 - 10:37 PM, said:

600 dmg to hull-down Valour? That's really nice RNG. One day, I shot IS-7's hull and only dealt 230 dmg to him with Type 5's derp gun.

 

dude thats an IS7 hull. The turret is probably a better shot, its sloped better but thinner. 

And yes the alpha on type 5 is filthy



bigpikle-x #13 Posted 16 September 2021 - 01:14 PM

    Captain

  • Players
  • 53774 battles
  • 1,282
  • Member since:
    07-25-2018

View PostRaggaMuffinReap-x, on 15 September 2021 - 06:14 PM, said:

 

dude thats an IS7 hull. The turret is probably a better shot, its sloped better but thinner. 

And yes the alpha on type 5 is filthy

With Japanese Derp guns I usually aim under the tank if possible rather than at the tank. The belly plate is usually thinner than the LFP and will allow more splash damage to seep in. If not, aim at the base of the turret, damage will seep through the upper deck plate. Last option is the hatch if you can hit it with damage seeping through the turrret upper plate. The 15 cm on the Japanese tanks can do serious damage. Grinding the O-HO…



Haukkis-x #14 Posted 16 September 2021 - 03:34 PM

    Major

  • Players
  • 40867 battles
  • 6,286
  • Member since:
    08-05-2015

View PostRaggaMuffinReap-x, on 16 September 2021 - 12:14 AM, said:

 

dude thats an IS7 hull. The turret is probably a better shot, its sloped better but thinner. 

And yes the alpha on type 5 is filthy

 

RNG... I still remember one game when I was playing T110E3 and enemy Deathstar shot me with unnerfed HESH (1750 alpha) and he only dealt just over 200 dmg to my vehicle  :)

RogueTrooper180-x #15 Posted 16 September 2021 - 03:50 PM

    Major

  • Players
  • 19941 battles
  • 3,960
  • [JOCO]
  • Member since:
    02-13-2014

View PostHaukkis-x, on 16 September 2021 - 04:34 PM, said:

 

RNG... I still remember one game when I was playing T110E3 and enemy Deathstar shot me with unnerfed HESH (1750 alpha) and he only dealt just over 200 dmg to my vehicle  :)

 

He must have hit, or partially hit the big spaced armour ring at the front.

YOU ONLY FAIL IF YOU DON’T TRY

 

  “If we can make it to the ground, we'll take the next chance. And the next. On and on until we win… or the chances are spent.” Jyn Erso ...

 


Haukkis-x #16 Posted 16 September 2021 - 09:58 PM

    Major

  • Players
  • 40867 battles
  • 6,286
  • Member since:
    08-05-2015

View PostRogueTrooper180-x, on 16 September 2021 - 04:50 PM, said:

 

He must have hit, or partially hit the big spaced armour ring at the front.

 

I think he hit my tracks... and I had Superheavy Spalliner  :)

RaggaMuffinReap-x #17 Posted Yesterday, 12:56 AM

    Major

  • Players
  • 38792 battles
  • 2,202
  • [DOOMU]
  • Member since:
    02-13-2014

View PostHaukkis-x, on 16 September 2021 - 09:58 PM, said:

 

I think he hit my tracks... and I had Superheavy Spalliner  :)

 

nay, if he hit front of tracks maybe but on side the splash would probably pen your side plate (70mm?)

Haukkis-x #18 Posted Yesterday, 01:45 AM

    Major

  • Players
  • 40867 battles
  • 6,286
  • Member since:
    08-05-2015

View PostRaggaMuffinReap-x, on 17 September 2021 - 01:56 AM, said:

 

nay, if he hit front of tracks maybe but on side the splash would probably pen your side plate (70mm?)

 

He hit me frontally... probably into the tracks. Don't remember excactly, it was way over a year ago in Siegfried Line.




2 user(s) are reading this topic

1 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users


    animatethant-x