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Fake tanks in game.


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BGUNTER #1 Posted 25 April 2014 - 08:12 PM

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I've been wanting to make this post for awhile but not sure if I can word it correct. I know this game is arcade based on real world vehicles. That's how I view it right or wrong. After I got the E50 I was interested about this series of tanks how much was real etc. After finding some info out I found a whole article talking about fake vehicles in game. Ones that are really just WG made up. Most are German arty some are like E50M which is what the Germans wanted the E50 to be. My question is how do you guys feel about completely fake tanks in the game? My only issue is the tanks don't say they are WG impression of said tank.

 

P.S. I posted here because people in this post have most knowledge about the subject.



RUReady2Die #2 Posted 25 April 2014 - 08:53 PM

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I would suggest you watch the movie  docudrama of Howard Hughes (The Aviator) with Leonardo DeCaprio, There is a part in the movie where said character is being question by senate committees. His answer. In rough terms "Billions of dollars spent on war equipment either never produced or never delivered". So as to original question, I absolutely have no problems with WG research and estimated guesses.

HighlandGunner1 #3 Posted 25 April 2014 - 09:07 PM

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Some tanks are from blue prints some are prototypes and the rest are real so with this you get World Of Tanks.

BGUNTER #4 Posted 25 April 2014 - 09:07 PM

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I need to find the article I thought that also. But there are some that are complete WG made up one sec will try to find it.

BGUNTER #5 Posted 25 April 2014 - 09:21 PM

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Of  course I was unable to find the link. I think it was on overlord blog? Not sure but it down all nations and listed tanks that were not even blueprints.

Orbit Storm #6 Posted 25 April 2014 - 09:30 PM

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Personally, I have no issue with historical accuracy in terms of what tanks are available. What bothers me, admittedly, is the thought that some of the tier nine and ten tanks that are complete guesstimates, could be quite overpowered. There are ample tanks at lower tiers (i.e. even the glorified T29) that can bounce shots off of tanks two or more tiers below them; meanwhile, most tier ten tanks will drop any tank tier eight and below with a single shell (or at the very least, knock out 75%-95% of their health). This just doesn't seem logical when you look at the overall design of the game.

 

TL,DR - I don't care about the addition of fake tanks, but I don't support fake attributes for fake tanks.


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FatefulSphinx02 #7 Posted 28 April 2014 - 07:03 PM

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An option to select historical combat mode could make things interesting as you could then fight real tanks from the period of your tank.

 



dcr66 #8 Posted 29 April 2014 - 02:43 PM

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View PostFatefulSphinx02, on 28 April 2014 - 03:03 PM, said:

An option to select historical combat mode could make things interesting as you could then fight real tanks from the period of your tank.

 

 

I like to see a settings in match making where only WW2 tanks will be included. Include the "drawing boards" and prototypes if you wish since they too belong to the era. The game becomes unfair when you have WW2 vehicles going against post-WW2 designs. M48A1, M60, Leopard 1, Conqueror, etc are all post WW2 tanks. 

 

FYI. - WW2 Europe ended in May 1945. WW2 Pacific ended in Aug 1945. 

 


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MegaB0B0 #9 Posted 29 April 2014 - 03:10 PM

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The whole game is FAKE (fantasy) to a huge degree, since if you really watch ww2 doco, you will find it is not possible for the mighty 88 gun to bounce at 1 end of the map shooting on some M4jumbo or the soon to come T-34 76 on the other end of any of the Map in the game.  

Tanks would burst into frames if ammo rack is ignited most the time like that saw in War Thunder.

Not a single E-50 series was produced and having own a number of books about tanks I only see technical data and hardly any detail drawings from original historical documents on how most of the E series look by the way, so most of the specs of these tanks in the game are up there with the Entire british AT-X series.

There is supposed to be an E-15, which is very fast light tank destroyer and recon tank armed with a powerful gun. I would like to see that tank being included as tier eight light and tier 6 TD.

 

The cut off year for the tanks to be included in the game  for USSR / USA / British historically is 1959!

hence we would see the UFO inspired float on snow and water Object 279 some time down the track

 

 

 

 


Edited by MegaB0B0, 29 April 2014 - 03:12 PM.

That one bounced... WTF..not at 100m and not twice in a roll and not on the side of a Walfe-100 with a BL-10!!!

MrWuvems #10 Posted 29 April 2014 - 05:02 PM

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I like going down the impractical dead-ends of tank design. Mostly because you can play stupid super-weapons without your engine breaking down from the strain or the obvious tank-disabling design flaws taking you out of combat when you try to move.

 

I also don't have an issue with the "just put everything on an E-100" chassis, since that was part of the E-series goals, and the Germans did reuse tanks to a silly degree (everything from the Hetzer to the Hummel to the JgTiger)



Agent G22 #11 Posted 29 April 2014 - 05:13 PM

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If you watched their latest broadcast at C2E2, the developers commented on this very fact.  They built some of these tanks from blueprints with the aid of military experts.  Since these tanks did not exist, they have had to speculate how they would drive, shoot and react to every situation.  I think they did a pretty good job.  So, fake tanks, sure, but it's a game isn't it, it's all fake.  Just sayin.

 


Orbit Storm #12 Posted 29 April 2014 - 09:12 PM

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A few responses seem to indicate that my previous post was taken out of context. I'm not opposed to "fake" anything, otherwise we'd likely end up being severely limited in our options. I'm merely concerned that the assumptions of how powerful these "fake" tanks are, are causing an imbalance in the game. i.e. placing tier eight tanks versus tier ten tanks that can one-shot the tier eight; meanwhile, a tier eight tank isn't capable of a one-shot on any tank above tier five.

 

The tier / attribute disparity is the concern.


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MrWuvems #13 Posted 29 April 2014 - 09:18 PM

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View PostOrbit Storm, on 29 April 2014 - 04:12 PM, said:

A few responses seem to indicate that my previous post was taken out of context. I'm not opposed to "fake" anything, otherwise we'd likely end up being severely limited in our options. I'm merely concerned that the assumptions of how powerful these "fake" tanks are, are causing an imbalance in the game. i.e. placing tier eight tanks versus tier ten tanks that can one-shot the tier eight; meanwhile, a tier eight tank isn't capable of a one-shot on any tank above tier five.

 

The tier / attribute disparity is the concern.

 

To be fair, the only tank that does this is the 183. The tier differential is at its lowest between tanks at the higher tiers.

And besides, the biggest abuse of disparity is either the AT-2 vs tier 3s or the JgPanther 2 abusing tier 6s with its apocalypse doom gun



Orbit Storm #14 Posted 29 April 2014 - 09:34 PM

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View PostTheMEagle, on 29 April 2014 - 05:18 PM, said:

To be fair, the only tank that does this is the 183. The tier differential is at its lowest between tanks at the higher tiers.

And besides, the biggest abuse of disparity is either the AT-2 vs tier 3s or the JgPanther 2 abusing tier 6s with its apocalypse doom gun

 

Valid point, but have you seen a Pershing try to compete with tier tens (or even tier nines for that matter)? It's essentially a glorified Chaffee with a much bigger chassis that's been inappropriately dubbed a few tiers higher. Or how about the damage difference between a T95 and a T28? Personally speaking, I believe tier tens warrant being in their own lobby.. but that's a matter for another topic. Much could be said about tier disparity overall but at lower tiers, I've found that skillful use of your tank makes up for said disparity, whereas at tier eight or so.. marshmallows turn to spitballs and heart-pounding escapes turn into one-shots before ever seeing a 'Detected!' notification. Not to mention, it's far costlier being kill fodder for someone else's OP tank at tier eight than it is at much lower tiers.


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SLYRxExecuter #15 Posted 03 May 2014 - 07:16 PM

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View PostOrbit Storm, on 29 April 2014 - 10:34 PM, said:

 

Valid point, but have you seen a Pershing try to compete with tier tens (or even tier nines for that matter)? It's essentially a glorified Chaffee with a much bigger chassis that's been inappropriately dubbed a few tiers higher. Or how about the damage difference between a T95 and a T28? Personally speaking, I believe tier tens warrant being in their own lobby.. but that's a matter for another topic. Much could be said about tier disparity overall but at lower tiers, I've found that skillful use of your tank makes up for said disparity, whereas at tier eight or so.. marshmallows turn to spitballs and heart-pounding escapes turn into one-shots before ever seeing a 'Detected!' notification. Not to mention, it's far costlier being kill fodder for someone else's OP tank at tier eight than it is at much lower tiers.

The Pershing and to greater extents, the Pattons are flankers, when playing in high tier matches poping the map and using knowlege of camping spots is your greatest weapon here. 


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MrWuvems #16 Posted 03 May 2014 - 07:35 PM

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View PostOrbit Storm, on 29 April 2014 - 04:34 PM, said:

 

Valid point, but have you seen a Pershing try to compete with tier tens (or even tier nines for that matter)? It's essentially a glorified Chaffee with a much bigger chassis that's been inappropriately dubbed a few tiers higher. Or how about the damage difference between a T95 and a T28? Personally speaking, I believe tier tens warrant being in their own lobby.. but that's a matter for another topic. Much could be said about tier disparity overall but at lower tiers, I've found that skillful use of your tank makes up for said disparity, whereas at tier eight or so.. marshmallows turn to spitballs and heart-pounding escapes turn into one-shots before ever seeing a 'Detected!' notification. Not to mention, it's far costlier being kill fodder for someone else's OP tank at tier eight than it is at much lower tiers.

 

The Pershing has a giant mantlet, if you can't flank you can be a super-mobile hull down monster with a 400 view range.

The T28 actually out-DPMs the T95s top gun and has the highest penetration of tier 8.

 

The only big issue tanks at tier 10 are the E-100s and the e3 (maybe maybe maybe the e-50m) because we're missing a lot of the tanks, particularly mediums that make slow high-armor 10s cry.



Matthew J35U5 #17 Posted 05 May 2014 - 11:30 PM

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I found this spreadsheet listing all of the tanks in the game (current at some point or another), with their varying degrees of historical accuracy. I wonder what the consensus on what makes a "fake tank", is it "real" if it had a real blueprint/idea, or did they have to build a model of it, or did they have to build at least a non-functional prototype before you would consider the tank "real". (Pretty sure most people wouldn't call the "real idea" tanks that were modified by wargaming to be "real" tanks, and certainly not the "basically invented by wargaming" tanks)

 

Edit—Forgot to link the spreadsheet.


Edited by Matthew J35U5, 05 May 2014 - 11:30 PM.

KeystoneCops, on 14 June 2015 - 12:51 PM, said:


DeathBotGamma #18 Posted 05 May 2014 - 11:39 PM

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I understand what your saying and agree to an extent. I like having lots of options and it is a game after all.

Thee Shooter #19 Posted 05 May 2014 - 11:52 PM

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View PostMegaB0B0, on 29 April 2014 - 08:10 AM, said:

The whole game is FAKE (fantasy) to a huge degree, since if you really watch ww2 doco, you will find it is not possible for the mighty 88 gun to bounce at 1 end of the map shooting on some M4jumbo or the soon to come T-34 76 on the other end of any of the Map in the game.  

Tanks would burst into frames if ammo rack is ignited most the time like that saw in War Thunder.

Not a single E-50 series was produced and having own a number of books about tanks I only see technical data and hardly any detail drawings from original historical documents on how most of the E series look by the way, so most of the specs of these tanks in the game are up there with the Entire british AT-X series.

There is supposed to be an E-15, which is very fast light tank destroyer and recon tank armed with a powerful gun. I would like to see that tank being included as tier eight light and tier 6 TD.

 

The cut off year for the tanks to be included in the game  for USSR / USA / British historically is 1959!

hence we would see the UFO inspired float on snow and water Object 279 some time down the track

 

 

 

 

Unless the 360 devs make the 279 exclusive, it will probably never come.

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Bob4Scott #20 Posted 06 May 2014 - 12:04 PM

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It was needed to tweak something here and there to just get a battle tier with tanks that could fight against.

The Tiger II in WW2 couldnt get penetrated by an US tank only the Russian tanks could it sometimes.

The most of them get destroyed by the german itself or left while stuck, an engine damage or just no more fuel.

Bomber and fighter aircraft destroyed the most of them. It will definitely adapt to some other tanks in Wot. Some blueprints concepts or prototyp was just planned as the

absolutely Op tank in this time decade. You can find enough info and the history of the tanks that are in wot.

But to let them fight in a video-game it was needed to put them in something like that (battle tier)


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