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Operation SeaLion


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FRsLastStand #1 Posted 21 June 2014 - 11:03 PM

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Hi to all those out there who love military history and all the what if scenarios this is one for you.I was just thinking after studying the plans for Sea Lion ,what would've happened if the Germans had been able to invade Britain including how we would deal with the initial invasion and then how we would deal with occupation/complete invasion of the British Islands.

WidowMaker1711 #2 Posted 21 June 2014 - 11:11 PM

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I reckon the Home Counties would have been sacrificed in a lightly fought strateguc withdrawal. With a defensive line on the Thames/Severn line.

 

But luckily Germany was never strategically or materially in a position to cross the Channel. All bluff and blunder. They acted too late to build up any sort of invasion fleet. And were being watched DAILY by the boys and girls of the PRU and PDU's


For Russ and the Allfather

 

 


GUNMETALGREY1 #3 Posted 21 June 2014 - 11:11 PM

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Would have been interesting if the Germans could have gotten enough troops in Britain but I don't think they could have ever gotten past the RAF and RN.

SkyStalker #4 Posted 21 June 2014 - 11:58 PM

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Well the Luftwaffe needed to continue beating the snot out of the RAF on the ground rather then change focus to the cities

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UK SPARTAN 1075 #5 Posted 21 June 2014 - 11:59 PM

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Who knows but I dont think they would of succeeded all I know if foreign troops ever set foot im my country I would fight to my last round then fix bayonets and do what ever it took to win and I know the second world war soldiers would of done that 

MrWuvems #6 Posted 22 June 2014 - 12:32 AM

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Considering that the Germans wouldn't have had the same benefit of a deception/espionage campaign as Overlord did, the still somewhat-secret of the radar defenses, and the oil slick fire traps, there's a good chance that Sea Lion wouldn't have gotten a beachhead. The Commonwealth found out what happens when you try to land on a properly defended beach.

Sgt Bull 1943 #7 Posted 22 June 2014 - 12:51 AM

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The RN was a major problem for a German invasion. So there was a few chooses , use subs to thin out the navy( not likely) or weaken the RAF and send in the paratroopers. This would only prolong the war , but German would not be able to hold on the Britton.

FRsLastStand #8 Posted 22 June 2014 - 12:55 AM

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View PostTheMEagle, on 22 June 2014 - 01:32 AM, said:

Considering that the Germans wouldn't have had the same benefit of a deception/espionage campaign as Overlord did, the still somewhat-secret of the radar defenses, and the oil slick fire traps, there's a good chance that Sea Lion wouldn't have gotten a beachhead. The Commonwealth found out what happens when you try to land on a properly defended beach.

The attempt at capturing a port before it could be destroyed was a gamble designed to show the USSR that we taking a second front seriously except Dieppe became a failure as it was too heavily fortified to be able to be taken with invasion force being almost wiped out.



Tiberius67 #9 Posted 22 June 2014 - 02:06 AM

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View PostFRsLastStand, on 21 June 2014 - 06:03 PM, said:

Hi to all those out there who love military history and all the what if scenarios this is one for you.I was just thinking after studying the plans for Sea Lion ,what would've happened if the Germans had been able to invade Britain including how we would deal with the initial invasion and then how we would deal with occupation/complete invasion of the British Islands.

 

In '74 they did a wargame at Sandhurst on Sea Lion.....the umpires were senior British and German officers from the War. The unanimous judgement of the umpires is that Sea Lion would have been a catastrophic failure for the Germans, whose invasion force suffered 75% casualties in the game.

 

 

 



UK SPARTAN 1075 #10 Posted 22 June 2014 - 10:14 AM

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View PostSgt Bull 1943, on 22 June 2014 - 01:51 AM, said:

The RN was a major problem for a German invasion. So there was a few chooses , use subs to thin out the navy( not likely) or weaken the RAF and send in the paratroopers. This would only prolong the war , but German would not be able to hold on the Britton.

They tried weaking the raf and the germens got smashed  the germans had more planes more pilots and the raf smashed them hard thats why operation sea lion never happened



SadamPoosane #11 Posted 22 June 2014 - 08:15 PM

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I went through Sandhurst in 2003 and I can vividly remember Sea Lion being used as an example of a flawed attack plan. At the time I thought it was used in an attempt to fill us with pride and respect, but that wasn't the case. At the time I submitted a paper on a hypothetical attack plan of Britain in 1940 hoping I could succeed where Sea Lion would have failed. I got my first posting before I got a reply to my plan, which as you've all guessed was a huge disaster. I got a 16 page reply informing me that the majority of my paratroopers would have been killed or captured, only 15% of my armour would have made it within 25 miles of London, and all troops would have been suffering from sever exhaustion and dehydration. They thanked me for my effort and offered a few pointers as what could have increased the probability of my succeeding. I've got the papers in a box in my loft and I think I might try and if add them to this thread. It might sound boring but rest assured it makes for good reading.

MrWuvems #12 Posted 23 June 2014 - 03:01 AM

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View PostFRsLastStand, on 21 June 2014 - 07:55 PM, said:

The attempt at capturing a port before it could be destroyed was a gamble designed to show the USSR that we taking a second front seriously except Dieppe became a failure as it was too heavily fortified to be able to be taken with invasion force being almost wiped out.

 

And this was WITH air and sea superiority, which the Germans would not have barring some really out-there alternate history scenarios.



RiceDrizzle88 #13 Posted 23 June 2014 - 04:58 AM

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If the Germans had a Navy as formidable as Japan's at the time, combined with the Panzers they already had, they would have invaded Great Britain easily. 

 


MegaB0B0 #14 Posted 23 June 2014 - 05:34 AM

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Germany don't have enough ships to transport troops even they managed initial landing with amour mechanise forces, they simply don't have enough even they manage all French ships. The same apply to the fail British raid. 

RN has too many big guns can deal with German ships at far distance.

their only possible hope is defeat fighter command and destroy costal areas then, put gigantic mine lines to prevent Royal Navy to get close to landing zones then use river boats to ferry people across. 


That one bounced... WTF..not at 100m and not twice in a roll and not on the side of a Walfe-100 with a BL-10!!!

Fear Da Butter #15 Posted 23 June 2014 - 05:46 AM

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View PostUK SPARTAN 1075, on 22 June 2014 - 05:14 AM, said:

They tried weaking the raf and the germens got smashed  the germans had more planes more pilots and the raf smashed them hard thats why operation sea lion never happened


Correct me if i'm wrong.  But I believe the RAF was suffering serious acft and trained pilot losses to the Germans until it's ranks where buffed by volunteer American pilots and American acft.


Edited by nutbutter 100, 23 June 2014 - 05:49 AM.

Win8  2735.84  Win7 2184.11  EFF 1918.11  


 

 

 


UK SPARTAN 1075 #16 Posted 23 June 2014 - 06:05 AM

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View Postnutbutter 100, on 23 June 2014 - 06:46 AM, said:


Correct me if i'm wrong.  But I believe the RAF was suffering serious acft and trained pilot losses to the Germans until it's ranks where buffed by volunteer American pilots and American acft.

No disrespect like but there was only like 5 us pilots that were in it had a few polish and other nations but obviously most were British pilots 



Major Fulcrum #17 Posted 23 June 2014 - 06:09 AM

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View PostUK SPARTAN 1075, on 23 June 2014 - 07:05 AM, said:

No disrespect like but there was only like 5 us pilots that were in it had a few polish and other nations but obviously most were British pilots

The RAF's most lethal squadron during the Battle Of Britain, was Warsaw 303, a Polish squadron.



UK SPARTAN 1075 #18 Posted 23 June 2014 - 06:17 AM

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View PostMajor Fulcrum, on 23 June 2014 - 07:09 AM, said:

The RAF's most lethal squadron during the Battle Of Britain, was Warsaw 303, a Polish squadron.

They were good pilots they fought hard in the raf and in army



Major Fulcrum #19 Posted 23 June 2014 - 06:22 AM

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View PostUK SPARTAN 1075, on 23 June 2014 - 07:17 AM, said:

They were good pilots they fought hard in the raf and in army

Oh yeah, they were missing Poland and were pissed that Hitler had it, so they fought to the bitterest end to get Poland back.



UK SPARTAN 1075 #20 Posted 23 June 2014 - 06:25 AM

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View PostMajor Fulcrum, on 23 June 2014 - 07:22 AM, said:

Oh yeah, they were missing Poland and were pissed that Hitler had it, so they fought to the bitterest end to get Poland back.

Ture 






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