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Open letter to WGA - 1.3 Summary Opinion Pertaining to German Line

team PC team 360 1.3 German nerf buff release balance

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rainsilent #441 Posted 18 July 2014 - 09:28 AM

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View PostXxKrebsxX, on 18 July 2014 - 04:12 AM, said:

 

WGWPAIN, I appreciate the feed back on this. Allow me to chime in. I fear that if you guys goo back to 1.2 for the German tanks and give them their engines back then you will have to take away the buffs to the E-50 and E-50M in regards to hull armor and in the case of the E-50M the turret armor as well. The only reason they received those buffs was due to the engine changes; they were some of the companion buffs that were added while the majority were not.

 

If you revert the engines back to the way they were in 1.2 and keep the buffs you gave them you run the risk of now making them overpowered instead of underpowered.

 

This is why I believe parity with the PC must be maintained. You will open yourself to a new set of problems if you go with your "latter option" of giving them their engines back.

 

I agree with you on the E-50 and E-50M however the others that had engines removed could use them back.


http://forum-console.worldoftanks.com/index.php?/topic/25926-package-fixes-and-suggestions/

My list of suggested package changes. Matthew J35u5 has one as well. I suggest you take a look at his too and make your own suggestions in either.


vVMr GoodCatVv #442 Posted 18 July 2014 - 09:28 AM

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If the tanks get changed back, will it be the case that we get those engines and modules back we lost or will it be that what we have now is given the same performance values as what we lost? I can live with either of these outcomes. It would restore some of my faith and it would earn you money WG from me at least. As I am sure you are aware I was not happy about losing something I converted xp to get.

I hope I haven't missed something and this has already been answered.


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vVMr GoodCatVv #443 Posted 18 July 2014 - 09:29 AM

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View PostFCTAFF, on 18 July 2014 - 10:27 AM, said:

Boot lickers, fanboys or just people who knew it would be fixed and be right in the end and tried to calm everyone down.  

some from choice a, some from b and some from c but you missed out trolls


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supernezza #444 Posted 18 July 2014 - 10:47 AM

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I would vote for companion buffs.

 

About tanks comparisons, people do neglect maps and other game dynamics when comparing tank lines. You would have to consider how and when tanks usually engage in combat, is it long distance fight with no covers, are players usually able to use hull down tactics in maps, are tanks able to use alpha strike and fall back to cover etc. 

 

Anyways, great thread. It seems I will be buying premium time...



Kill Process #445 Posted 18 July 2014 - 11:46 AM

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View PostWGWPAIN, on 17 July 2014 - 11:51 PM, said:

I appreciate your response and my hard place equally.  You're post lifted my spirits during a trying week. It's ultimately my fault this mistake got out into the Live game.

 

To go back or go forward would not make us slaves to the PC in anyway.  Going back is easy and leaves us modifying 1.2 for a long time to come.  Taking the all of the changes just means that's our new starting point.  The decision to make is, which is a better game for the players right now.  What I can tell you is that either way, we won't take PC balance after this.  We'll fork those files and only reference PC going forward.  No more merges after this for the tank files.

 

 

I think this is awesome. No stealth nerfs to marders, no ignoring the community on tanks like the KV-1S, etc. Astounding Pain, and thank you for posting.



WGWPAIN #446 Posted 18 July 2014 - 12:50 PM

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I just wanted to clear up something.  When I said "complicated" I meant time consuming.  We have both changes in different builds here and are testing them.  The revert is easy but moving up and taking all the buffs\nerfs to the German line is a ton of changes that need to all be verified.  

 

There's no attempt at deceit.  I'm currently not strongly leaning either way.  It's test, test, test, then decided.  Your feedback posted here is also valuable.  Thank you all.

 

"Strengthen what is weak, and let the strong alone." <-- Hmm, I could have used that last week, thanks ;)


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Neokill #447 Posted 18 July 2014 - 01:47 PM

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The last patch has truely ruined the game especially for the german line. My favourite tank is the E75 and i was avergaing 2-3 kills a game. Now I am lucky to score 1 maybe 2 kills. The gaming experience for me has had a dramatic turn for the worse. Part of the reason is the poor performance of the German heavy line. The second part if the poor match making. I am now in matches with 6 to 10 tier ten tanks and I dont know if WOT has realised but tier 10 tanks have a significant firepower and armour advantage. Obviously you guys missed that in your patch 1.3. Its more than just testing guys, its user experience, customer experience!!!!!

Compare tanks, packages, armor, and weak spots with actual console data: http://www.worldoftanksgameguide.com

 

 


Anvil LFO #448 Posted 18 July 2014 - 02:04 PM

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My workplace has a saying. Do the Right Thing not the Easy Thing. If going backwards to 1.2 is the easy thing then putting  the buffs/needs in is the Right thing to do. What's more it's the Right thing to do for the game going forward. 

Tom

 


Neokill #449 Posted 18 July 2014 - 02:09 PM

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View PostAnvil LFO, on 19 July 2014 - 12:04 AM, said:

My workplace has a saying. Do the Right Thing not the Easy Thing. If going backwards to 1.2 is the easy thing then putting  the buffs/needs in is the Right thing to do. What's more it's the Right thing to do for the game going forward. 

You are a tester. How about you testers get together and let WOT know just how badly they have stuffed the game


Compare tanks, packages, armor, and weak spots with actual console data: http://www.worldoftanksgameguide.com

 

 


MJRMIKE #450 Posted 18 July 2014 - 02:14 PM

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View PostAnvil LFO, on 18 July 2014 - 10:04 AM, said:

My workplace has a saying. Do the Right Thing not the Easy Thing. If going backwards to 1.2 is the easy thing then putting  the buffs/needs in is the Right thing to do. What's more it's the Right thing to do for the game going forward. 

Total nonsense. You speak as if there are only two choices. MANY paths are possible here. I believe in your workplace motto but its not applicable in this circumstance. The RIGHT thing here falls somewhere in between the two choices you mention. The overwhelming majority agrees gameplay has suffered. It's just not fun to play this game any longer for those who used to enjoy German tanks. To dig in your heels and ignore the masses would be a grave mistake, especially if you're under the false belief that 1.3 was the RIGHT THING. 



Kill Process #451 Posted 18 July 2014 - 02:16 PM

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View PostMJRMIKE, on 18 July 2014 - 03:14 PM, said:

Total nonsense. You speak as if there are only two choices. MANY paths are possible here. I believe in your workplace motto but its not applicable in this circumstance. The RIGHT thing here falls somewhere in between the two choices you mention. The overwhelming majority agrees gameplay has suffered. It's just not fun to play this game any longer for those who used to enjoy German tanks. To dig in your heels and ignore the masses would be a grave mistake, especially if you're under the false belief that 1.3 was the RIGHT THING.

 

Sorry to go OT - but your avatar looks like Doc OC from the spiderman movies...lol



MJRMIKE #452 Posted 18 July 2014 - 03:02 PM

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View PostKill Process, on 18 July 2014 - 10:16 AM, said:

 

Sorry to go OT - but your avatar looks like Doc OC from the spiderman movies...lol

Not being familiar, I just googled that, and I must agree. It's uncanny. That doc octopus sure is a handsome fella. 



ArchAngelx12 #453 Posted 18 July 2014 - 03:19 PM

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View PostWGWPAIN, on 18 July 2014 - 01:50 PM, said:

I just wanted to clear up something.  When I said "complicated" I meant time consuming.  We have both changes in different builds here and are testing them.  The revert is easy but moving up and taking all the buffs\nerfs to the German line is a ton of changes that need to all be verified.  

 

There's no attempt at deceit.  I'm currently not strongly leaning either way.  It's test, test, test, then decided.  Your feedback posted here is also valuable.  Thank you all.

 

"Strengthen what is weak, and let the strong alone." <-- Hmm, I could have used that last week, thanks ;)

Didn't this happen before the 1.3 and the 1.2 and when the full release came out on the X-Box 360? Why change them in the first place? Many on here have stated "if its not broke, don't fix it"... Does that NOT apply here with the nerfed German lines? I may be missing something but the German lines that were nerfed seemed balanced with its foreign counter parts before the 1.3 update. I'll ask ask again... Could you please explain what the imbalances were to begin with to justify the Nerf in the first place? 

I do not envy your current position at all Pain. I appreciate your efforts and respect the fact you are keeping us updated as best as you can. But from a guy who has spend considerable money on this game and plays 48% of the time in German vehicles... This Nerf hurt my game play A LOT! I was very disappointed but I would be happy to have my 1.2 German tanks back that I worked hard for, and happy to buy more permium and gold to grind out the new lines. That's my position/ "feed back", Thank you again.



Matthew J35U5 #454 Posted 18 July 2014 - 03:23 PM

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View PostXxKrebsxX, on 18 July 2014 - 04:12 AM, said:

 

WGWPAIN, I appreciate the feed back on this. Allow me to chime in. I fear that if you guys goo back to 1.2 for the German tanks and give them their engines back then you will have to take away the buffs to the E-50 and E-50M in regards to hull armor and in the case of the E-50M the turret armor as well. The only reason they received those buffs was due to the engine changes; they were some of the companion buffs that were added while the majority were not.

 

If you revert the engines back to the way they were in 1.2 and keep the buffs you gave them you run the risk of now making them overpowered instead of underpowered.

 

This is why I believe parity with the PC must be maintained. You will open yourself to a new set of problems if you go with your "latter option" of giving them their engines back.

I agree I think. The 8.8 changes as a whole seemed like a buff to me. I would much rather have the Tiger II's faster reload for instance than the 170 extra horsepower when the terrain resistance modifiers made it much the same anyway sans hill-climbing ability.

View PostvVMr GoodCatVv, on 18 July 2014 - 05:28 AM, said:

If the tanks get changed back, will it be the case that we get those engines and modules back we lost or will it be that what we have now is given the same performance values as what we lost? I can live with either of these outcomes. It would restore some of my faith and it would earn you money WG from me at least. As I am sure you are aware I was not happy about losing something I converted xp to get.

I hope I haven't missed something and this has already been answered.

I think that Pain said that he new modules would stay in either case, but that they would have the performance modified to Mirror 1.2.


KeystoneCops, on 14 June 2015 - 12:51 PM, said:


Assassin3Fox #455 Posted 18 July 2014 - 03:55 PM

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View PostMatthew J35U5, on 18 July 2014 - 11:23 AM, said:

I agree I think. The 8.8 changes as a whole seemed like a buff to me. I would much rather have the Tiger II's faster reload for instance than the 170 extra horsepower when the terrain resistance modifiers made it much the same anyway sans hill-climbing ability.

I think that Pain said that he new modules would stay in either case, but that they would have the performance modified to Mirror 1.2.

 

Ok I have a question...are the "terrain resistance" modifiers an intentional change or are they a 'bug'? I have only seen statements referring to a bugged terrain resistance effecting some vehicles on some maps so I am just asking cause I am not sure which it is at this point.

 

How did/have the modifiers changed on the German line or other tank lines? How were they supposed (?) to have changed? Is there a thread that explains how the Terrain resistance modifiers effect the tanks?

 

At this point I have already commenced my rage selling in my garage so the question is rapidly becoming moot but for those tanks that I am attempting to keep (Tiger 2; E75): Can anyone explain what was done to them (beyond engine changes and really minor weight changes) to make them the way they are right now?



Matthew J35U5 #456 Posted 18 July 2014 - 03:59 PM

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View PostAssassin3Fox, on 18 July 2014 - 11:55 AM, said:

 

Ok I have a question...are the "terrain resistance" modifiers an intentional change or are they a 'bug'? I have only seen statements referring to a bugged terrain resistance effecting some vehicles on some maps so I am just asking cause I am not sure which it is at this point.

 

How did/have the modifiers changed on the German line or other tank lines? How were they supposed (?) to have changed? Is there a thread that explains how the Terrain resistance modifiers effect the tanks?

 

At this point I have already commenced my rage selling in my garage so the question is rapidly becoming moot but for those tanks that I am attempting to keep (Tiger 2; E75): Can anyone explain what was done to them (beyond engine changes and really minor weight changes) to make them the way they are right now?

The current changes are a bug. The 8.8 update on the PC changed the terrain resistance positively so that the German tanks, while with less engine power, found it easier to pass over terrain in effect decreasing the effect the engine nerf had on them.


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View PostMatthew J35U5, on 18 July 2014 - 04:59 PM, said:
 

 

Fact.



SteampunkPagan #458 Posted 18 July 2014 - 04:20 PM

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View PostFCTAFF, on 18 July 2014 - 05:27 AM, said:

Boot lickers, fanboys or just people who knew it would be fixed and be right in the end and tried to calm everyone down.  

I am none of those maybe the last because common sense said they would fix it. If calling for calm, reason and understanding is a bad thing then I guess I am proud to be bad.


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Anvil LFO #459 Posted 18 July 2014 - 04:55 PM

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View PostNeokill, on 18 July 2014 - 03:09 PM, said:

You are a tester. How about you testers get together and let WOT know just how badly they have stuffed the game

 

Do you see the green thing that says beta tester under my name? Do you see how it's not a red thing that says Super Tester? Clearly not at which point if you had read the numerous threads I had commented on regarding my position on the great German Nerf you really wouldn't have made those comments to me. 


Tom

 


Anvil LFO #460 Posted 18 July 2014 - 04:59 PM

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View PostMJRMIKE, on 18 July 2014 - 03:14 PM, said:

Total nonsense. You speak as if there are only two choices. MANY paths are possible here. I believe in your workplace motto but its not applicable in this circumstance. The RIGHT thing here falls somewhere in between the two choices you mention. The overwhelming majority agrees gameplay has suffered. It's just not fun to play this game any longer for those who used to enjoy German tanks. To dig in your heels and ignore the masses would be a grave mistake, especially if you're under the false belief that 1.3 was the RIGHT THING. 

 

Ive have Been extremely vocal in my opposition to the state the game is in at the moment. I have support tickets in and suggestion threads voicing my opposition to the changes that were made. WG have come on this thread and apologised for those changes and said they would put them right. 

 

At no point have I said that the 1.3 changes were a good idea. If WG had implemented the entire 8.6 PC changes to the German line I wouldn't have had a problem but for whatever reason we mainly got the nerfs and not the buffs that went alongside them. 

 

You misunderstand my post. 


Tom

 





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