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FV4202-What am I doing wrong?


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GladiateSoup38 #1 Posted 23 August 2014 - 11:20 PM

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So, after 20 games in this tank, I have a 20 percent win rate. Most of my games are very frustrating.

 

Overall, my win rate in this tank is terrible compared to my win rate in most other medium tanks.

 

I really cannot figure out what I am doing wrong.  In the Centurion and the T-54, I have carried games.  With the FV4202, I cannot lift anything, even when I am one of 4 T10 tanks in the match. 


I know I cannot hull down like the Centurion. I know I lack armor compared to the T-54 (which may not have much armor, but bounces a lot). I feel like I have tried everything: sniping, being support, scouting (after 600 games in the Chaffee, I have a good handle on scouting without armor).  

 

Does anyone have any tips on how to better play this tank?  



bwShadowFang #2 Posted 24 August 2014 - 08:30 AM

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This tank is very intriguing in terms of gameplay as it is good at everything yet perfect at nothing. It is literally a tank that is in the middle ground on all its stats. As such, there is no real way to play this tank, only that you utilize it in the best situation. However, enough beating around the bush...

-The main advantages this tank has is gun depression, an impenetrable upper plate, adequate turret armor, decent rate of fire, great mobility, and overall utility. 

-The main disadvantages is mediocre armor on the sides and rear, high sitting cupola, and somewhat low speed.

 

However, since you will be in multiple situations with this tank, try doing these tactics:

-Brawling: Not exactly the best brawler but being sporadic and unpredictable will make many tankers panic and bounce off the tougher parts of your armor. Your rate of fire will let you down in these kinds of situations, so attempt hit and run tactics to give yourself some space.

-Sniping: Very good at this as it is accurate and has a very fast muzzle velocity. However, do not try doing only this as it robs your team of a very valuable vehicle.

-Side-Scraping: Don't do this, ever. You will get punished badly.

-Firefights: Implying you're fighting at a reasonable distance with an enemy, use ground cover as much as possible to show only the tough parts of the armor and keep mobile until you're ready to fire. This tank excels in this situation as tanks mostly underestimate its effectiveness.

-Flanking: This tank can surprise anybody and harass even E-100s. When you have this happen, shoot weakspots to attempt to cripple an enemy's fighting ability. 

 

This tank is not "noob friendly." You must know what cards you're dealt and how you will play them. My best suggestion would be to pair up with a heavy and use him as bait to attempt flanks and hasty firefights. 


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FiST_Rocky #3 Posted 24 August 2014 - 05:30 PM

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Would be great if we get the shot rate upped like in the pc 9.2 update! Now many are starting the play it again.

 

Or, hopefully, it will get replaced by the Centurion Action X, as mentioned on the pc side. Would be awesome to have a super Centurion! And sure wish the 7/1 got a buff to maybe 6rpm! It may have a killer gun, but it's slow reload speed lets you down when trying to hold a corner :(



Mucal1st #4 Posted 26 August 2014 - 07:28 AM

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First of all what are your crew skills and equipment?

This thing is like the comet: don't get shot

Nuke2099 #5 Posted 26 August 2014 - 07:42 AM

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Dude I will save you the trouble: The Centurion 7/1 is better.
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bwShadowFang #6 Posted 26 August 2014 - 08:16 AM

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View PostNuke2099, on 26 August 2014 - 02:42 AM, said:

Dude I will save you the trouble: The Centurion 7/1 is better.

 

Negatory, do not "settle" for the Centurion 7/1. The turret armor is better making hull downs safer, but that's about it for advantages. The tank's weaker hull will get murdered. Plus, it's somewhat slower to fire, making it vulnerable for longer before attacking again.
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TangoLit #7 Posted 26 August 2014 - 08:34 AM

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View PostNuke2099, on 26 August 2014 - 12:42 AM, said:

Dude I will save you the trouble: The Centurion 7/1 is better.

 

Waiting for obvious response...  :popcorn: 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


 

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Nuke2099 #8 Posted 26 August 2014 - 10:11 AM

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View PostWolfGuard27, on 26 August 2014 - 09:16 AM, said:

 

Negatory, do not "settle" for the Centurion 7/1. The turret armor is better making hull downs safer, but that's about it for advantages. The tank's weaker hull will get murdered. Plus, it's somewhat slower to fire, making it vulnerable for longer before attacking again.

 

The FV4202 has the same hull armor and it can't go hull down like the 7/1 because on paper it may seem better but its actually not. The only things it has going for it over the 7/1 is a faster fire rate with the 105 mm, slightly more health and a quicker turning speed. There's a reason why the Centurion 7/1 is considered better than the tier 10.
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GladiateSoup38 #9 Posted 27 August 2014 - 03:18 PM

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View PostMucal1st, on 26 August 2014 - 08:28 AM, said:

First of all what are your crew skills and equipment?

This thing is like the comet: don't get shot

 

I run Stabs, Vents, and Rammer.  

 

I initially had a crew with BiA, Clutch Braking, Off road driving, Snap Shot, smooth ride, and Mentor.  At some point I decided I wasn't going to play the tank anymore, and I took that crew off and put it in the Crusader, retraining  Snap shot and ORD to Camo and Sixth Sense (which I think work better in the Crusader).  My current crew only has BiA. 

 

On the Comet, I have a 57 percent win rate in the Comet.  I honestly think the Comet is one of the best T7 tanks, and is one of my favorites.  The FV4202 though, ugh.  

 



GladiateSoup38 #10 Posted 27 August 2014 - 03:23 PM

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View PostNuke2099, on 26 August 2014 - 11:11 AM, said:

 

The FV4202 has the same hull armor and it can't go hull down like the 7/1 because on paper it may seem better but its actually not. The only things it has going for it over the 7/1 is a faster fire rate with the 105 mm, slightly more health and a quicker turning speed. There's a reason why the Centurion 7/1 is considered better than the tier 10.

 

I mostly agree here.  That said, I don't really hull down in either tank. I am much more about peek a boo and sniping.  Arty usually ruins my time when I am hull down. In games without arty, or if I a can get in an arty safe position, I definitely hull down.  

TangoLit #11 Posted 27 August 2014 - 04:25 PM

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View PostNuke2099, on 26 August 2014 - 03:11 AM, said:

The FV4202 has the same hull armor and it can't go hull down like the 7/1 because on paper it may seem better but its actually not. The only things it has going for it over the 7/1 is a faster fire rate with the 105 mm, slightly more health and a quicker turning speed. There's a reason why the Centurion 7/1 is considered better than the tier 10.

 

Hey Nuke!  I think the idea is that the 7/1 is considered better in it's own tier... but not better, per se.  For me, the 4202 has been an improvement on the 7/1 in every way.

 

View PostGladiateSoup38, on 23 August 2014 - 04:20 PM, said:

Does anyone have any tips on how to better play this tank?  

 

There has been some pretty good input in this thread for you.  I tend to agree with a lot of it.  Here are some additional thoughts.

 

  • The FV4202, IMO, is not a "carry" tank in the traditional sense.  Since you're asking for help, I'll just say "don't bother trying to make it one".  The traditional "carry" tank can brave a direct push and own everyone on the field.  For tier 10 an obvious example is the E100 though even it has weaknesses.  This is tier 10, and that kind of "carry" tank is not common (doesn't really exist) since every tank is amazing at tier 10.  To be a team leader in the 4202, I think the goal is to chip away at OpFor (go for long-term cumulative damage rather than immediate kills).  Staying alive and keeping your gun hot are the goal here.  This is done by popping in and out of cover, relocating, rinse-repeat.  Take out OpFor one shot at a time.  When you do this, you take away the advantages that some tanks have making them useless to support their teammates that you are chipping away at.  Think of the Heavy that's pushing on your Heavy ... OpFor has two awesome TD just behind.  You pop in and out (relocating) using your fabulous gun depression and irritating (nimble) terrain resistance.  OpFor TD can not keep their reticle in place because you force them to keep moving their barrel and maybe their hull too... you're making them struggle to hit you and their gun is off of your Heavy.  In the meantime you are chipping 400 at a time off of their 2,500 hp Heavy.... 7 shots later (assuming your Heavy has done nothing) and it's adios.  It takes time, but it works.  This is not a tank for the impatient.
  • Exploit opportunities for close-quarters flanking and side hugging (not face hugging which the 4202 won't survive).  Your tank is heavy enough that you can't typically get bullied in a physical side-by-side pushing match.  You are also short, so you have the ability to get underneath some guns like the E100 who is tall and has inadequate gun depression to deal with you at close quarters... now turn your barrel toward OpFor, pull trigger...  rinse, repeat and watch OpFor fall.  Credit to TheMEagle for teaching me this little maneuver which seems to work with just about any short tank.  I'm still experimenting with this one, but it's been pretty good to me.
  • This is not a "circling" tank.  The gun is amazing, but the armor will fail you in circling maneuvers.  Sometimes this tactic is necessary which is one of the reasons I try to preserve my hp as long as possible (since you'll likely encounter a situation late in the game where you'll need to use ill-advised tactics like circling.  If so, close in on OpFor... right on him and not even 5 meters away (this is using the previous side-hugging tactic per my last point).  I am not a great player, but I've used this more than once to show up a T-54 or T62A... think about it, you're taking away one of their greater advantages by getting in close (mobility).  It turns out, the FV4202 is also quite nimble in CQC... not better, but not so much worse that it can't hold it's own.  In these situations the outcome is more based on player skill and luck.

 

Key point:  use this tank's advantages and avoid it's disadvantages.

  • Advantage:  You have crazy deep gun depression combined with a turret that has a sick auto-bounce slope at some angles (e.g. going over hills).  Your tank has outstanding acceleration even in bad terrain (this is one of the things the entire Centurion line does exceedingly well).  So, hills are your friend.
  • Disadvantage:  More or less you have junk armor on flat terrain where even that wonderful turret will fail you... try to avoid peek-a-boom in city environments.
  • Advantage:  Your utter lack of terrain resistance (not sure if I'm saying this correctly) combined with your acceleration give you the ability to cover the entire map while most other tanks can not.  So, use relocation to confound OpFor.  Relocate often and show up where they don't expect you.  This really gets fun later in the game, so preserve your hp for when you'll shine more.  The beginning of the game is not your friend in this respect.  When you see a situation developing that does not fit your tank, relocate until you have the advantage.  For the FV4202, movement is success; movement is life.
  • Advantage:  Your gun's combined accuracy, solid pen, alpha and RoF are SIIIIICK!!!  I'm still learning reload times for OpFor, but I'm finding in some situations I can fire my 400 alpha more than once for every single shot from OpFor.  This means you can tease a miss from OpFor, and then return fire more than once before getting back to cover.  Again, you need to study reload times and vulnerabilities for this to work.  Example 1 is JUSTICE.  A fully upgraded Waffle E-100 has a clip reload of 50 seconds.  You reload every 9.3 seconds.  The Waffle has 2,200 hp, so don't do the following maneuver until he's been chipped away a bit... perhaps two hits from your gun would do it, but three to be safe.  Also it won't work if he's not alone.  In any case, wait for the last shot and then rush him... yup, even in the open if the situation seems safe for that since he's no longer the threat for the next 50 seconds.  While he's reloading you will get a maximum of 5 shots at him for 2,000 hp.  Even if you miss once, you'll still own him.  If you miss more than once and he gets started on you again, you're still in pretty good shape if you've preserved your hp (though not for long, so make it count).  Example 2:  FV215b (183) has a 30 second reload and 2,000 hp.  In trading shots you can safely fire twice between his shots... 3 times if you're feeling spicy but that's not advised.  If you get a 183 to 1/2 health and if he's alone, you own him.... wait for shot, pull out and fire once... race at him for the side hugs and it's game over.  You'll want at least 1/2 health yourself to attempt this.  Note:  This RoF strategy does not have an advantage against the FV215b Heavy (like the IS-7, side-hugging is ill advised for this one since the 215b is not terribly tall and it has great gun depression), or the E100 (side hugging is your best bet for the E100), or the IS-7 (only side hug this monster, but note that he's short like you so he'll be hitting you back).
  • Advantage:  Gun accuracy is outstanding.  If you take the time to learn OpFor's armor weaknesses, this tank can pick apart even the smallest weakness (since you'll actually hit and pen it).  On the other hand, do not try to snipe unless you're willing to use Premium ammo.  In the FV4202, sniping distance is your enemy, and your enemy's advantage.  Your standard ACPR does near to nothing at sniping distances, and you'll get WRECKED by any TD that's optically equipt and camping a ridge or something like that.  Don't put yourself in situations where you need to use it this way.

 

That's enough for the time being.  Now if I can only use my own advice and get my 4202 to shine... Tank on!!  :izmena:


 

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GladiateSoup38 #12 Posted 02 September 2014 - 01:04 AM

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I really appreciate what you are saying there TangoLit. I have put a lot of it into practice. 

 

  Unfortunately, I am now on my 3rd day without a victory in the FV4202.  In fact, my last two games were both losses.  In the first game I did 3k damage, with no kills, and a massive loss.  That wasn't that great of a game for me, but 3k damage isn't too bad.  The most recent game was a 4.8k damage, 4 kill game on Sand River Encounter and it was also a loss*

 

How much damage and how many kills should one have, to consistently win in this tank? 

 

*This game was populated by obviously inebriated folks on game chat.  I think that MIGHT have had something to do with the loss. 

 

 


Edited by GladiateSoup38, 02 September 2014 - 01:09 AM.


TangoLit #13 Posted 02 September 2014 - 01:08 AM

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View PostGladiateSoup38, on 01 September 2014 - 06:04 PM, said:

I really appreciate what you are saying there TangoLit. I have put a lot of it into practice. 

 

  Unfortunately, I am not on my 3rd day without a victory in the FV4202.  In fact, my last two games were both losses.  In the first game I did 3k damage, with no kills, and a massive loss.  That wasn't that great of a game for me, but 3k damage isn't too bad.  The most recent game was a 4.8k damage, 4 kill game on Sand River Encounter and it was also a loss*

 

How much damage and how many kills should one have, to consistently win in this tank? 

 

*This game was populated by obviously inebriated folks on game chat.  I think that MIGHT have had something to do with the loss.

 

If I could help anyone with that I could get paid.


 

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GladiateSoup38 #14 Posted 02 September 2014 - 01:09 AM

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I should point out that there was a brief moment last week where my win rate rose to 37 percent.  It has now fallen to 28 percent in 50 games.  So, I have won 14 games total in this tank.  In that 50 games, I have averaged 1640ish damager per game, which is pretty bad.  

GladiateSoup38 #15 Posted 02 September 2014 - 01:19 AM

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Just got my first win in 3 days!  It was 1503 assist, 3208 direct damage, and 1 kill.  


Shocking to me, other than the win, was the victory was on Malinovka Encounter starting on the East spawn, which is usually a guaranteed loss for me regardless of tank. 

 

 



Tempest fox3 #16 Posted 02 September 2014 - 02:31 AM

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I probably wouldn't be the best person to comment on this having only played 1 match in this tank so far despite having it unlocked for almost a month I only today got around to grinding the silver i needed to buy it. 

 

The tank has no gun mantle so almost any shot that hits the front of the turret beside the gun will go through, however the lack of a gun mantle also gives you 10 degrees gun depression, this was a novelty to me as I'm more used to the E50m which has really really bad gun depression. The 4202 is probably the first tank that I don't mind drawing Prokhorovka (That was the map I drew my first and so far only match on) with. The gun depression really allows you to work the hilly area's without exposing yourself to return fire. 

 

The tank also doesn't lose much speed going up hill or over rough terrain, and is pretty quick to accelerate although it does have a pretty low top end speed.

 

Like any tank the key is to using what your tank is good at. In this case the gun depression. Try and work hills and ridge-lines where possible. It worked for me.

 

 


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Mucal1st #17 Posted 03 September 2014 - 11:14 AM

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Just a hint to GladiateSoup38 and TangoLit because you have imo poor stats with this tank.

 

I run rammer, vert. stab and optics.

Skills/Perks: 6th sense, repairs, BIA, recon, sit. awareness, camo, safe stowage

 

My playstyle:

It's a great tank to be a pain in the [edited]. You have to decide when to be aggressive and when to sit back. Use your view range.

At least half of my shots are not fully aimed at mid range. I use the superior aim time, ROF and accuracy. My highest priority at mid and long range is not to get shot. Let the enemy shoot clutch and poorly aimed shots. The play style is very similar to Comet.

 

btw with his playstyle I managed to do 8700 damage yesterday (not the first 8k+ game). The only damage I received was from a t54 driver who rushed me while using heat only. I enjoy this tank very much, slightly more than the t54 for example

 


Edited by Mucal1st, 03 September 2014 - 11:50 AM.


GladiateSoup38 #18 Posted 03 September 2014 - 12:36 PM

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Thanks Mucal1st.  I appreciate what you are saying.  

 

It isn't just your opinion that I have terrible stats in this tank!  I also think I have terrible stats, and that my stats are objectively bad. Part of what I am trying to solve with this thread.  

 

Using your view range is an interesting notion.  In both this tank and the M48 Patton, I run Rammer, Vert. Stab., and Vents.  I generally don't use optics on my mediums, as I go for more of a "damage dealer" build and vents helps with both aim and reload.  In my Chaffee I run, Vents, Vert Stab, Optics.   I wonder if, given the awesome aim time of the gun, I shouldn't go with Vents, Optics, Rammer for the FV4202.  

 

Taking using your view range together with knowing when to be aggressive is probably the root of my problems with this tank.  While it is pretty mobile, especially up and down hills (shockingly so actually), the tank is still relatively slow.  I find I get myself too far in front of the line and then cannot really get out of trouble.  In say, the T-54 (or Cent. 7/1 w/ 20pdr), you can keep bouncing shots and/or doing damage to wait for either reinforcement or an opportunity to get away.  

 

The problem for me is that I play this tank basically like I play the M48 Patton.  I do approx 150 more damage per game and have 47 percent win percentage in the Patton.  The damage is negligible, but the win rate is a lot better. I still wish it were over 50 percent, but it's a learning process. 



Mucal1st #19 Posted 03 September 2014 - 01:19 PM

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View PostGladiateSoup38, on 03 September 2014 - 02:36 PM, said:

Thanks Mucal1st.  I appreciate what you are saying.  

 

It isn't just your opinion that I have terrible stats in this tank!  I also think I have terrible stats, and that my stats are objectively bad. Part of what I am trying to solve with this thread.  

 

Using your view range is an interesting notion.  In both this tank and the M48 Patton, I run Rammer, Vert. Stab., and Vents.  I generally don't use optics on my mediums, as I go for more of a "damage dealer" build and vents helps with both aim and reload.  In my Chaffee I run, Vents, Vert Stab, Optics.   I wonder if, given the awesome aim time of the gun, I shouldn't go with Vents, Optics, Rammer for the FV4202.  

 

Taking using your view range together with knowing when to be aggressive is probably the root of my problems with this tank.  While it is pretty mobile, especially up and down hills (shockingly so actually), the tank is still relatively slow.  I find I get myself too far in front of the line and then cannot really get out of trouble.  In say, the T-54 (or Cent. 7/1 w/ 20pdr), you can keep bouncing shots and/or doing damage to wait for either reinforcement or an opportunity to get away.  

 

The problem for me is that I play this tank basically like I play the M48 Patton.  I do approx 150 more damage per game and have 47 percent win percentage in the Patton.  The damage is negligible, but the win rate is a lot better. I still wish it were over 50 percent, but it's a learning process. 

 

I play almost every tank very aggressive, so I can understand you. I play almost all my tanks with vents instead of optics but it doesnt feel right in this tank. My games started to get a lot better with optics. I strongly recommend that you at least try it. With camo, recon and sit. awareness I usually spot enemies while moving without getting spotted. Sometimes I can even shoot without getting spotted which is really huge. If you HAVE to go around a corner knowing an enemy is targetting you, try to peek with your hull and let the enemy shoot it. With a slight angle (~10 degrees) the upper plate is almost always auto bounce.

 

Use the great response of this tank to out think people and try to keep the gun singing. If your heavies play very aggressive, let them catch the shots for you. If they are campy, well at least you spot the enemy first.

 

Last but not least watch in third person view where the enemy is pointing its gun.

 

PS. by terrible stats I don't mean your win rate. It is your k/d and dmg c/r. It tells me that you are catching too many shots. Always put yourself in a superior position on the map than the enemy. You have the mobility and gun depression to do so. And remember that most heavies have <5 rpm which means you can shoot them twice before returning in cover.

 


Edited by Mucal1st, 03 September 2014 - 01:30 PM.


GladiateSoup38 #20 Posted 03 September 2014 - 02:05 PM

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I will try out Optics.

 

Do you think Optics instead of Vents, or Optics instead of Vert Stab? Or is it a wash? 

 

On stats: I meant the whole lot of them, not just win rate.  I cannot consistently do enough damage nor get enough kills in the tank.  I feel like the damage-K/D issue is related to the win rate issue.  






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