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Patton vs. Rommel, who would win?


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Poll: Patton vs. Rommel (191 members have cast votes)

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Who would win in an equal fight?

  1. Patton (71 votes [37.17%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 37.17%

  2. Rommel (120 votes [62.83%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 62.83%

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MtOMajorCat0311 #41 Posted 27 October 2014 - 06:52 PM

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Patton no question - Rommel was a talented infantry commander in WWI, ran Hitler Youth programs for the Nazi's and was part of Hitlers bodyguard before becoming a Panzer commander and having great success.  Patton was the consummate professional soldier who created the US tank training school in WWI and commanded a tank brigade.  He was also a former Cavalry officer and that training served his aggressive style well.

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Aroze Drago #42 Posted 30 October 2014 - 02:45 AM

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If they are given same stuff rommel  through stratagey but patton if supplies kept coming through attrition

Dish Jockey #43 Posted 30 October 2014 - 09:13 AM

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Rommel is better in my opinion. He did have heavy odds stacked against him in numerous battles. However in the second battle of El Alamein he did have a free source of Intel which gave him an advantage. He was still a great general, though.  

GraemePryce #44 Posted 18 November 2014 - 04:42 AM

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Montgomery. He'd stoically and patiently get on with it, with special forces, minimal equipment and any armoured vehicles that were available - and expect no thanks while Patton and Rommel were still building their forces.

 

LOL



Jeebus 117 #45 Posted 19 November 2014 - 09:19 PM

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The main reason I chose Patton, is intimidation. Hitler so feared Patton, that the Allies used inflatable tanks and cardboard cutouts to bluff an invasion into Pas de Calais, to distract from Normandy. Even after the Normandy invasion was confirmed by German forces, Hitler refused to pull troops from Calais, because he thought Normandy was a diversion, so Patton could cross into France. German leadership was intimidated by Patton. Why wouldn't their ground forces also be? How many of Rommel's tank commanders would be hesitant to fight against Patton? And even a second's hesitation could be enough to get that first shot.

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GingerNinjaMax #46 Posted 19 November 2014 - 10:23 PM

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View PostJeebus 117, on 19 November 2014 - 09:19 PM, said:

The main reason I chose Patton, is intimidation. Hitler so feared Patton, that the Allies used inflatable tanks and cardboard cutouts to bluff an invasion into Pas de Calais, to distract from Normandy. Even after the Normandy invasion was confirmed by German forces, Hitler refused to pull troops from Calais, because he thought Normandy was a diversion, so Patton could cross into France. German leadership was intimidated by Patton. Why wouldn't their ground forces also be? How many of Rommel's tank commanders would be hesitant to fight against Patton? And even a second's hesitation could be enough to get that first shot.

 

 I can just see them trembling in their boots. No. He Didn't intimidate the German leadership. It is true they thought of him as the best allied general armoured or otherwise. They knew he would attack attack attack whereas Monty was more old school but it was the amount of material and Air Power that they feared.

The argument is slightly skewed because if they met in Northern France then Patton would have the edge but if we imagine that equipment levels were equal then given Rommels' blitzkreig tactics I think he would have the edge.



Jeebus 117 #47 Posted 21 November 2014 - 10:44 PM

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While Rommel wrote the book (literally) on desert armored warfare, Patton basically single-handedly developed America's armored division. Unfortunately for Germany, Rommel never had full resources in the later years of the war, as Germany's oil refineries were being bombed regularly from mid-1940. By the mid 40s, Hitler was essentially undermining Rommel's decisions/assessments, by pulling Panzer divisions away from him, to play defense to Hitler's poor strategic decisions. Obviously, this arguement would be much more interesting, if Rommel had Patton's resources, and/or if Patton hadn't gotten sidelined for slapping a soldier. Neither one got to see their full potential.

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Matthew J35U5 #48 Posted 22 November 2014 - 12:32 AM

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View PostGingerNinjaMax, on 19 November 2014 - 05:23 PM, said:

 

 I can just see them trembling in their boots. No. He Didn't intimidate the German leadership. It is true they thought of him as the best allied general armoured or otherwise. They knew he would attack attack attack whereas Monty was more old school but it was the amount of material and Air Power that they feared.

The argument is slightly skewed because if they met in Northern France then Patton would have the edge but if we imagine that equipment levels were equal then given Rommels' blitzkreig tactics I think he would have the edge.

 

The much maligned tank destroyer doctrine may have been just the thing for defeating "blitzkrieg". Considering the logistical weakness of the Wehrmacht, even at the height of their strength, I don't see a "blitzkrieg" actually working against America.

KeystoneCops, on 14 June 2015 - 12:51 PM, said:


GraemePryce #49 Posted 23 November 2014 - 06:58 AM

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Rommel was a very unique man, his story is very interesting and a little sad. It gives you a very ambiguous feeling because you can understand how he must have felt betrayed and under - supplied. Apparently he was furious when tank battalions began to recieve STUG's but were being told and trained to use them like tanks or TD's. As someone else said - his hands were tied at Normandy also and he met his end ( with dignity ) a little later.

 

It seems sad but imagine how history may be different if he had had full battalions of Tiger II's, Tigers, Panthers, Sturmtigers etc instead of the continually diminishing numbers he received. 

 

I think I might remember reading that he wasn't impressed by the idea of super heavy tanks like the Maus either.

 

I'm not sure who I think would win but I'm sure if the met on an even footing it would have been a battle that was still spoken of today.



Matthew J35U5 #50 Posted 23 November 2014 - 05:44 PM

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View PostGraemePryce, on 23 November 2014 - 01:58 AM, said:

Rommel was a very unique man, his story is very interesting and a little sad. It gives you a very ambiguous feeling because you can understand how he must have felt betrayed and under - supplied. Apparently he was furious when tank battalions began to recieve STUG's but were being told and trained to use them like tanks or TD's. As someone else said - his hands were tied at Normandy also and he met his end ( with dignity ) a little later.

 

It seems sad but imagine how history may be different if he had had full battalions of Tiger II's, Tigers, Panthers, Sturmtigers etc instead of the continually diminishing numbers he received. 

 

I think I might remember reading that he wasn't impressed by the idea of super heavy tanks like the Maus either.

 

I'm not sure who I think would win but I'm sure if the met on an even footing it would have been a battle that was still spoken of today.

In Africa? He would have been even worse off because they would have completely [edited] his logistics.


KeystoneCops, on 14 June 2015 - 12:51 PM, said:


Jeebus 117 #51 Posted 24 November 2014 - 08:44 PM

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For the record, I don't know if Hitler forcing him to take a cyanide pill counts as "meeting his end with dignity". Call it what it is. He got F**ked.

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Matthew J35U5 #52 Posted 24 November 2014 - 10:11 PM

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I think meeting his end at the hands of the tyrannical regime he supported was an appropriate fate. 

KeystoneCops, on 14 June 2015 - 12:51 PM, said:


GingerNinjaMax #53 Posted 25 November 2014 - 01:31 AM

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View PostMatthew J35U5, on 24 November 2014 - 10:11 PM, said:

I think meeting his end at the hands of the tyrannical regime he supported was an appropriate fate. 

 

What about all those Russian officers who were purged in the thirties or the ones that were executed during the war because they retreated or didn't stop the German advance. Or the ordinary Russian soldier who got captured early on and if lucky enough to survive and later be freed by the Russian advance was also shot for cowardice Was that an appropriate end for them too?

I thought more of you Matthew,  a man of intelligence like you should not say such a crass and ridiculous comment about a great soldier like Rommel


Edited by GingerNinjaMax, 25 November 2014 - 01:39 AM.


Matthew J35U5 #54 Posted 25 November 2014 - 02:27 AM

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View PostGingerNinjaMax, on 24 November 2014 - 08:31 PM, said:

 

What about all those Russian officers who were purged in the thirties or the ones that were executed during the war because they retreated or didn't stop the German advance. Or the ordinary Russian soldier who got captured early on and if lucky enough to survive and later be freed by the Russian advance was also shot for cowardice Was that an appropriate end for them too?

I thought more of you Matthew,  a man of intelligence like you should not say such a crass and ridiculous comment about a great soldier like Rommel

Show me a great soldier and I'll show you someone I feel is worthy of respect. Who is Rommel afterall but an ordinary man built up by the British as someone respectable so they wouldn't look so dumb being unable to defeat an undersupplied and outnumbered enemy. I have no interest in someone that happily served Nazi Germany while things went "well", even if they may have turned against it once things turned dark for it. He helped sow the wind, and he reaped the whirlwind.

 

The Bolsheviks who helped create the system responsible for their doom, sure. There is also a certain grim irony in Marshal Tuchakevsky being the hero of the Russian Civil war and being executed for treason (though his was indeed a great military mind). 


KeystoneCops, on 14 June 2015 - 12:51 PM, said:


XxDAFFYxxDUCKxX #55 Posted 25 November 2014 - 02:38 AM

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View PostMatthew J35U5, on 25 November 2014 - 02:27 AM, said:

Show me a great soldier and I'll show you someone I feel is worthy of respect. Who is Rommel afterall but an ordinary man built up by the British as someone respectable so they wouldn't look so dumb being unable to defeat an undersupplied and outnumbered enemy. I have no interest in someone that happily served Nazi Germany while things went "well", even if they may have turned against it once things turned dark for it. He helped sow the wind, and he reaped the whirlwind.

 

The Bolsheviks who helped create the system responsible for their doom, sure. There is also a certain grim irony in Marshal Tuchakevsky being the hero of the Russian Civil war and being executed for treason (though his was indeed a great military mind). 

 

Simo Häyhä

 

Now THAT guy, is a good soldier.

Finnish sniper, killed over 500 russians in the winter war in temperatures even russians thought were frigid, (Between -40 and -20 C.) in 100 days, barely over 5 kills a day. He never used a scope either, and to prevent steamy breath from giving away his position, he constantly ate the frigid ice to cool his body temp to reduce the breath pool. Funny part is, he was shot in the lower jaw with a large chunk of his left cheek missing, went on trucking and received a promotion to second lieutenant. You tell me he wasn't a good soldier....


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Matthew J35U5 #56 Posted 25 November 2014 - 02:42 AM

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View PostXxDAFFYxxDUCKxX, on 24 November 2014 - 09:38 PM, said:

 

Simo Häyhä

 

Now THAT guy, is a good soldier.

Finnish sniper, killed over 500 russians in the winter war in temperatures even russians thought were frigid, (Between -40 and -20 C.) in 100 days, barely over 5 kills a day. He never used a scope either, and to prevent steamy breath from giving away his position, he constantly ate the frigid ice to cool his body temp to reduce the breath pool. Funny part is, he was shot in the lower jaw with a large chunk of his left cheek missing, went on trucking and received a promotion to second lieutenant. You tell me he wasn't a good soldier....

To be honest I was thinking more of people that had some kind of political impact like Rommel or Tuchakevsky. Häyhä is certainly a good soldier in the more traditional sense though.


KeystoneCops, on 14 June 2015 - 12:51 PM, said:


XxDAFFYxxDUCKxX #57 Posted 25 November 2014 - 03:25 AM

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View PostMatthew J35U5, on 25 November 2014 - 02:42 AM, said:

To be honest I was thinking more of people that had some kind of political impact like Rommel or Tuchakevsky. Häyhä is certainly a good soldier in the more traditional sense though.

 

Yeah, honestly, it isn't easy coming up with good generals who weren't over exaggerated....

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Downhillchaos #58 Posted 25 November 2014 - 03:39 AM

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Well, Patton studied everything he could get his hands on about Rommel, the man, his history, training, tactics. 

 

I don't believe Rommel felt the need to reciprocate the compliment.  

 

As for a bar fight... Patton was a big intimidating man. I've seen lots of them lose bar fights because they're too caught up in their own bluster. Rommel would have probably figured out how to win the bar fight before he got there. 

 

KANTANKARUS. 



AJR568 #59 Posted 25 November 2014 - 06:32 AM

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Matthew, I'm curious to know your opinions on Hirohito or Yamamoto. 

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GraemePryce #60 Posted 25 November 2014 - 07:27 AM

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View PostJeebus 117, on 24 November 2014 - 08:44 PM, said:

For the record, I don't know if Hitler forcing him to take a cyanide pill counts as "meeting his end with dignity". Call it what it is. He got F**ked.

 

I totally get your point but if i remember correctly he was given the choice of being publicly executed and shamed ( for something he didn't even really have a part in ) or killing himself and retaining his rank etc. I just meant that at least the German people who believed in him and admired him didn't think that he went to his death as a traitor.

 

'Dignity' was probably a poor choice of wording, I agree! Very little the Germans did, they did with dignity and they certainly didn't allow their prisoners, POW's and civilians of the countries they invaded much dignity but it was very late when I wrote the comment!






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