Jump to content


Scouts unite!

stats assisted damage

  • Please log in to reply
36 replies to this topic

KeeefyD #21 Posted 25 September 2014 - 09:54 AM

    Captain

  • Players
  • 11026 battles
  • 1,620
  • Member since:
    02-28-2014

View PostNerfed Camper, on 25 September 2014 - 04:21 AM, said:

Meh I can't even convince the green team to shoot the reds these days thats why most of my T71 matches end up with me as top damage dealer.

 

'Meh'...?

That's hardly the 'hell yeah!' I was looking for..

 



Dr Bodge #22 Posted 25 September 2014 - 09:57 AM

    First lieutenant

  • Players
  • 9612 battles
  • 603
  • Member since:
    02-19-2014

View PostKeeefyD, on 25 September 2014 - 12:11 AM, said:

I look at my stats and it's a bit meh.

I'm average , I know that.

I scout and most could tell that from my stats.

 

My kill ratio: just above 1;

damage received/given: never quite managed to get to 1; (yet).

Win7/8: don't even want to know.

 

But if assisted damage was shown.. man, that's where it's at for us little scouts.

 

So WG, you give us pretty ribbons for it and it shows in the battle report but why not in our stats?

 

We do get 'detected' stats, which is something but I'd be much happier if assisted damage was shown, to sort the suiscouts from the scouts.

 

Come on scouts, give me a 'hell yeah!'

 

 

 

We shouldn't be asking for a quick fix to a broken system. Most statistics measure the wrong things.

 

Let me give you an example, based on your record. You have played around 2,000 games in Light tanks and your overall winrate is over 53% with a KD of 1.08. I have collected a fair amount of data from the PC servers from which we can produce the following figures.

 

If we rate you according to your KD we find that the following percentage of players (with over 1,000) games played in a given tank have higher KD than you: LT 43%, MT 55%, HT 65%, TD 80%, SPG 94%. These figures would indeed suggest you are below average compared to other players with your experience.

However, if we look at your WR (which it is clear from your record is not enhanced by platooning) we find the following percentage of players with a higher WR: LT 43%, MT 27%, HT 22%, TD 38%, SPG 27%. This suggests you are well above average.

 

Now can you see the contradiction. While almost no SPG drivers (6%) have a poorer KD the vast majority of them (73%) fail to influence the result of matches to the same extent that you do. So the good news is that on the only real measure that matters, your capacity to win games, you are far better than your stats may suggest. The bad news is that much of the reason for this is that you drive Light Tanks which are more influential (in terms of WR) than other classes. The evidence for this is that far more (43%) LT drivers exceed the 53% WR threshold than other classes.

 

So the conclusion is, surprisingly, if you want good stats drive a TD or HT but if you want to win matches drive a LT.

 


Edited by Dr Bodge, 25 September 2014 - 09:57 AM.

"Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent."

Saerbhreathach #23 Posted 25 September 2014 - 10:34 AM

    Major

  • Beta Tester
  • 22054 battles
  • 15,090
  • Member since:
    09-14-2013

View PostNerfed Camper, on 25 September 2014 - 12:51 AM, said:

Meh I can't even convince the green team to shoot the reds these days thats why most of my T71 matches end up with me as top damage dealer.

 

I hear ya, the lack in guts is really starting to get to me. I'll light up 10+ targets and yet no one is willing to either push up and give me a little support OR they simply ignore my marked targets. Which then forces my hand to zip in and attack, which I really rather not do in my lights. I'd rather be 300m away from OPFOR watching my team pick em apart...

 

View PostKeeefyD, on 25 September 2014 - 07:24 AM, said:

 

'Meh'...?

That's hardly the 'hell yeah!' I was looking for..

 

 

 

I like the idea, it would show just exactly what a good scout can do. Only issue is that there seems to be a general lack in " respect " for the scout. Several matches where a loss last night ( for me ) and it was all because no one would pay attention to me, even arty seemed to ignore my SOS's and marked targets even though the targets I was marking where through our flank and making their way right for arty.... Had a match on cliff, an encounter match, I went middle right for the lighthouse. Sat on the little hill lit up 8 OPFOR, only to see 7 friendlies all headed round the lighthouse hill BUT they were stopped by 2 tanks. Here I am in my T71 looking down the barrels of 8 OPFOR, mostly heavies, guarding the center. Guess how long I lasted.... Guess how many times I called out for help...Only to be ignored and to watch the 7 friendlies end up surrounded.

 

It's getting to the point where I hardly ever play my lights anymore, especially my T71 where it gets higher match making. Instead I'll scout in my mediums, but then I'm more busy scouting then supporting which isn't a good thing for a medium to do....



KeeefyD #24 Posted 25 September 2014 - 10:46 AM

    Captain

  • Players
  • 11026 battles
  • 1,620
  • Member since:
    02-28-2014

View PostDr Bodge, on 25 September 2014 - 10:57 AM, said:

 

We shouldn't be asking for a quick fix to a broken system. Most statistics measure the wrong things.

 

Let me give you an example, based on your record. You have played around 2,000 games in Light tanks and your overall winrate is over 53% with a KD of 1.08. I have collected a fair amount of data from the PC servers from which we can produce the following figures.

 

If we rate you according to your KD we find that the following percentage of players (with over 1,000) games played in a given tank have higher KD than you: LT 43%, MT 55%, HT 65%, TD 80%, SPG 94%. These figures would indeed suggest you are below average compared to other players with your experience.

However, if we look at your WR (which it is clear from your record is not enhanced by platooning) we find the following percentage of players with a higher WR: LT 43%, MT 27%, HT 22%, TD 38%, SPG 27%. This suggests you are well above average.

 

Now can you see the contradiction. While almost no SPG drivers (6%) have a poorer KD the vast majority of them (73%) fail to influence the result of matches to the same extent that you do. So the good news is that on the only real measure that matters, your capacity to win games, you are far better than your stats may suggest. The bad news is that much of the reason for this is that you drive Light Tanks which are more influential (in terms of WR) than other classes. The evidence for this is that far more (43%) LT drivers exceed the 53% WR threshold than other classes.

 

So the conclusion is, surprisingly, if you want good stats drive a TD or HT but if you want to win matches drive a LT.

 

 

Thanks for that, that was interesting.

A couple of points you made that I'd address:

Although my OP is about stats, I'm not soo interested in stats that I'd drive TD/Heavies just to improve them (although I'm not sure it would for me, I'm much better scouting).

I really do enjoy scouting the most, it seems subtler: Thin armored, weak-ish gun but able to influence the battle.

 

You're obviously interested in the numbers and take the time to analyse them but when most people are looking at the obvious twinkling bright light stats, it seems that for a whole category of tanks, the one important stat is completely missing. 

TDs and heavies own the stats but adding this one stat would even things up. It would show us scouts in a much fairer light and we'd get the credit we deserve maybe even a little more help on the field.

Could this in part be a reason lots of people favour the big stronk tanks?

 

 



Saerbhreathach #25 Posted 25 September 2014 - 10:51 AM

    Major

  • Beta Tester
  • 22054 battles
  • 15,090
  • Member since:
    09-14-2013

View PostKeeefyD, on 25 September 2014 - 08:16 AM, said:

 

Thanks for that, that was interesting.

A couple of points you made that I'd address:

Although my OP is about stats, I'm not soo interested in stats that I'd drive TD/Heavies just to improve them (although I'm not sure it would for me, I'm much better scouting).

I really do enjoy scouting the most, it seems subtler: Thin armored, weak-ish gun but able to influence the battle.

 

You're obviously interested in the numbers and take the time to analyse them but when most people are looking at the obvious twinkling bright light stats, it seems that for a whole category of tanks, the one important stat is completely missing. 

TDs and heavies own the stats but adding this one stat would even things up. It would show us scouts in a much fairer light and we'd get the credit we deserve maybe even a little more help on the field.

Could this in part be a reason lots of people favour the big stronk tanks?

 

 

 

The reason the bigger tanks are favored is simple....Their easier to use. TD's = easy mode, heavies = not as easy as TD's but still easy.

Dr Bodge #26 Posted 25 September 2014 - 11:03 AM

    First lieutenant

  • Players
  • 9612 battles
  • 603
  • Member since:
    02-19-2014

View PostSaerbhreathach, on 25 September 2014 - 11:51 AM, said:

 

The reason the bigger tanks are favored is simple....Their easier to use. TD's = easy mode, heavies = not as easy as TD's but still easy.

 

 

I think that is part of it, but not the whole picture. I think it that the real skill in this game comes from developing a real feel for the ebb and flow of the battle and knowing where you should be and what you should be doing at any given point to have the greatest impact. This situational awareness and strategic vision is equally rare across all classes.

 

I think there are several reasons for favouring TDs over LT.

  1. As you say, in some ways it is easier, at first. When you shoot stuff dies and you have the armour to survive a bit longer.
  2. People like shooting stuff. It makes them feel like a badass. Nodoby plays games like CoD to spend their time hiding. It is no different here, so they are obviously drawn to the best tanks for shooting stuff.
  3. You are not dependent on other players to the same extent. Mediums and Lights are much more dependent on team-work, which is hard to find with random teams.
  4. You get better stats. It makes you look like a better player, regardless of the reality.

"Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent."

Saerbhreathach #27 Posted 25 September 2014 - 11:14 AM

    Major

  • Beta Tester
  • 22054 battles
  • 15,090
  • Member since:
    09-14-2013

View PostDr Bodge, on 25 September 2014 - 08:33 AM, said:

 

 

I think that is part of it, but not the whole picture. I think it that the real skill in this game comes from developing a real feel for the ebb and flow of the battle and knowing where you should be and what you should be doing at any given point to have the greatest impact. This situational awareness and strategic vision is equally rare across all classes.

 

I think there are several reasons for favouring TDs over LT.

  1. As you say, in some ways it is easier, at first. When you shoot stuff dies and you have the armour to survive a bit longer.
  2. People like shooting stuff. It makes them feel like a badass. Nodoby plays games like CoD to spend their time hiding. It is no different here, so they are obviously drawn to the best tanks for shooting stuff.
  3. You are not dependent on other players to the same extent. Mediums and Lights are much more dependent on team-work, which is hard to find with random teams.
  4. You get better stats. It makes you look like a better player, regardless of the reality.

 

Can't argue with that. Situational awareness is very important, watching your map/scout is very important.



KeeefyD #28 Posted 25 September 2014 - 11:14 AM

    Captain

  • Players
  • 11026 battles
  • 1,620
  • Member since:
    02-28-2014

View PostDr Bodge, on 25 September 2014 - 12:03 PM, said:

 

 

 

 

I think there are several reasons for favouring TDs over LT.

 

4. You get better stats. It makes you look like a better player, regardless of the reality.

 

Which handily brings us back on topic  :)

You get better stats because those are the stats they choose to highlight. You look like a better player because for some reason that's the bit of the big picture WG encourages us to focus on.

 

Shoot things, blow them up. Can't do it if you can't see them though.



Saerbhreathach #29 Posted 25 September 2014 - 11:17 AM

    Major

  • Beta Tester
  • 22054 battles
  • 15,090
  • Member since:
    09-14-2013

View PostKeeefyD, on 25 September 2014 - 08:44 AM, said:

 

Which handily brings us back on topic  :)

You get better better stats because those are the stats they choose to highlight. You look like a better player because for some reason that's the bit of the big picture WG encourages us to focus on.

 

Shoot things, blow them up. Can't do it if you can't see them though.

 

Exactly.

KeeefyD #30 Posted 26 September 2014 - 12:36 AM

    Captain

  • Players
  • 11026 battles
  • 1,620
  • Member since:
    02-28-2014

Dr Bodge, (or anyone else) I wanted to ask you: You said:

 

"However, if we look at your WR (which it is clear from your record is not enhanced by platooning)

 

How can you tell platooning habits from the stats? 



Saerbhreathach #31 Posted 26 September 2014 - 11:18 AM

    Major

  • Beta Tester
  • 22054 battles
  • 15,090
  • Member since:
    09-14-2013

View PostKeeefyD, on 25 September 2014 - 10:06 PM, said:

Dr Bodge, (or anyone else) I wanted to ask you: You said:

 

"However, if we look at your WR (which it is clear from your record is not enhanced by platooning)

 

How can you tell platooning habits from the stats? 

 

Mostly I go by survival rate. The higher the players survival rate the greater the odds said player platoons a lot  :smile:

KeeefyD #32 Posted 26 September 2014 - 11:33 AM

    Captain

  • Players
  • 11026 battles
  • 1,620
  • Member since:
    02-28-2014
Ah, gotcha, thanks. :smile:

Saerbhreathach #33 Posted 26 September 2014 - 11:43 AM

    Major

  • Beta Tester
  • 22054 battles
  • 15,090
  • Member since:
    09-14-2013
:great:

Dr Bodge #34 Posted 26 September 2014 - 12:09 PM

    First lieutenant

  • Players
  • 9612 battles
  • 603
  • Member since:
    02-19-2014

View PostSaerbhreathach, on 26 September 2014 - 12:18 PM, said:

 

Mostly I go by survival rate. The higher the players survival rate the greater the odds said player platoons a lot  :smile:

 

No, not that.

 

If you look at your achievements (Honorary Ranks) you will see that you have precisely zero 'Brothers In Arms' or 'Crucial Contribution' medals. Now to have played over 4,000 matches without a single BiA suggests you don't play in platoons an awful lot. I have only played about a dozen platoon matches with a (very inexperienced) friend and I have 1. If you take a pretty good player (look up Amazing Royce in the WR leaderboard) and he has 1 BiA medal for every 23 matches he plays.

 

In fact if you look up the stats of every player in the WR leaderboard and you will find evidence of one or more of the following:

  1. Playing only a small number of matches to exploit MM good fortune (#1 has played only 128 matches)
  2. Seal clubbing (#6 has played over 6,000 matches in one particular tier 1 tank!)
  3. Frequent platooning (#4 and #10 have won 1 BiA medal for every 23 or 36 matches respectively!).

 

Now I am not saying that all (or even any) of these are not good players (particularly those who got there by platooning rather than playing only a handful of matches) but you don't get WRs that high without some kind of trickery.

 


Edited by Dr Bodge, 26 September 2014 - 12:11 PM.

"Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent."

Saerbhreathach #35 Posted 26 September 2014 - 12:15 PM

    Major

  • Beta Tester
  • 22054 battles
  • 15,090
  • Member since:
    09-14-2013

View PostDr Bodge, on 26 September 2014 - 09:39 AM, said:

 

No, not that.

 

If you look at your achievements (Honorary Ranks) you will see that you have precisely zero 'Brothers In Arms' or 'Crucial Contribution' medals. Now to have played over 4,000 matches without a single BiA suggests you don't play in platoons an awful lot. I have only played about a dozen platoon matches with a (very inexperienced) friend and I have 1. If you take a pretty good player (look up Amazing Royce in the WR leaderboard) and he has 1 BiA medal for every 23 matches he plays.

 

In fact if you look up the stats of every player in the WR leaderboard and you will find evidence of one or more of the following:

  1. Playing only a small number of matches to exploit MM good fortune (#1 has played only 128 matches)
  2. Seal clubbing (#6 has played over 6,000 matches in one particular tier 1 tank!)
  3. Frequent platooning (#4 and #10 have won 1 BiA medal for every 23 or 36 matches respectively!).

 

Now I am not saying that all (or even any) of these are not good players (particularly those who got there by platooning rather than playing only a handful of matches) but you don't get WRs that high without some kind of trickery.

 

 

 

That works too, I just use the survival rate as a quick way to judge weather or not someone platoons a lot. As I said a high survival rate and good stats shows that, that player platoons, high survival rate and poor stats shows the player to be a camper/not a team player.   :smile:

 

edit....

Ok I didn't say anything about stats the first time, simply said that a high survival rate is an indication of platooning WHICH it is, but taking a look at the other stats ( kill / death, damage dealt / damage taken etc...etc...) as well as the survival rate is a quick way to tell weather or not a player platoons a lot OR if they camp a lot.


Edited by Saerbhreathach, 26 September 2014 - 12:18 PM.


KeeefyD #36 Posted 26 September 2014 - 12:21 PM

    Captain

  • Players
  • 11026 battles
  • 1,620
  • Member since:
    02-28-2014

View PostDr Bodge, on 26 September 2014 - 01:09 PM, said:

 

No, not that.

 

If you look at your achievements (Honorary Ranks) you will see that you have precisely zero 'Brothers In Arms' or 'Crucial Contribution' medals. Now to have played over 4,000 matches without a single BiA suggests you don't play in platoons an awful lot. I have only played about a dozen platoon matches with a (very inexperienced) friend and I have 1. If you take a pretty good player (look up Amazing Royce in the WR leaderboard) and he has 1 BiA medal for every 23 matches he plays.

 

 

 

 

Ah, very good, thanks, you're a bit of a wizard with the stats analysis. :great:

Dr Bodge #37 Posted 26 September 2014 - 12:45 PM

    First lieutenant

  • Players
  • 9612 battles
  • 603
  • Member since:
    02-19-2014

View PostSaerbhreathach, on 26 September 2014 - 01:15 PM, said:

 

That works too, I just use the survival rate as a quick way to judge weather or not someone platoons a lot. As I said a high survival rate and good stats shows that, that player platoons, high survival rate and poor stats shows the player to be a camper/not a team player.   :smile:

 

edit....

Ok I didn't say anything about stats the first time, simply said that a high survival rate is an indication of platooning WHICH it is, but taking a look at the other stats ( kill / death, damage dealt / damage taken etc...etc...) as well as the survival rate is a quick way to tell weather or not a player platoons a lot OR if they camp a lot.

 

 

Yeah, there are lots of signs of platooning. They aren't all equally reliable though. High survival rate can be an indication of a good player, platooning or camping. A WR above 60% is normally a good indicator. It doesn't help you identify bad players who platoon though. Overall I believe the BiA rate is the best. It ranges from 0 up to 1 in about 20 matches for players who are both good and (almost) exclusively platoon.


"Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent."





Also tagged with stats, assisted damage

1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users