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Panther vs Pershing


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GingerNinjaMax #1 Posted 03 November 2014 - 10:54 PM

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Was in the middle of looking for info to contradict Matthew J35U5's opinion that the Panther was a rubbish tank in his Allies attack Russia May 45 thread and came across this web site telling the tale of a Panther in Cologne taking out a Sherman then being itself taken out by a Pershing. I had seen the photos of the knocked out Panther as it is right near the iconic cathedral, but never new one of only a few Pershings to see combat did it.

Maybe a lot of you knew it but for those that don't check out this German guys web page. 

 

Also there is in depth stuff about the sherman crew and more. Its in English and is very good.

 

 

http://www.anicursor.com/colpicwar2.html

 

For the Lawyers The copyright is all his

 

 

 


Edited by GingerNinjaMax, 04 November 2014 - 09:51 PM.


Matthew J35U5 #2 Posted 03 November 2014 - 11:31 PM

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KeystoneCops, on 14 June 2015 - 12:51 PM, said:


J0hio #3 Posted 18 December 2014 - 04:17 PM

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View PostMatthew J35U5, on 03 November 2014 - 11:31 PM, said:

 

That's nuts! It looked like the Panther gunner got stuck (rather he got hit with the second or third shot) on his way out and never made it.

SG Kage #4 Posted 18 December 2014 - 07:24 PM

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Watching that made me a little sick.

SM Scorx #5 Posted 19 December 2014 - 06:04 AM

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View PostJ0hio, on 18 December 2014 - 11:17 AM, said:

 

That's nuts! It looked like the Panther gunner got stuck (rather he got hit with the second or third shot) on his way out and never made it.

 

But, it looks like the rest of the crew made it out. If I was the Pershing commander & saw all of them bailing out like that, I'd tell the my crew to cease fire & watch them scramble out, then take the Panther as a prize.

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GingerNinjaMax #6 Posted 20 December 2014 - 10:15 AM

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View PostSM Scorx, on 19 December 2014 - 06:04 AM, said:

 

But, it looks like the rest of the crew made it out. If I was the Pershing commander & saw all of them bailing out like that, I'd tell the my crew to cease fire & watch them scramble out, then take the Panther as a prize.

 

what if the gunner was about to fire a last shot and you tell your crew to cease fire. Next  thing your tank is on fire and your head is decorating the inside of the tank. Never stop firing till it is all over

Matthew J35U5 #7 Posted 20 December 2014 - 04:07 PM

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View PostGingerNinjaMax, on 20 December 2014 - 05:15 AM, said:

 

what if the gunner was about to fire a last shot and you tell your crew to cease fire. Next  thing your tank is on fire and your head is decorating the inside of the tank. Never stop firing till it is all over

To reinforce that:

"'Fight to the last breath, but do not give up the station - this was the brigade commander's order,' said Vaisser to his crew, as they opened precise fire at the enemy. Two shells knocked out a Panther, but an enemy shell set the hero's tank on fire. Comrade Vaisser personally left his tank, put the fire out, and continued the uneven battle. Another tank and APC with infantry was destroyed. The enemy concentrated powerful fire on the Junior Lieutenant's tank, and it was hit and set on fire again. The driver and machinegunner/radio operator were heavily injured. Comrade Vaisser and his turret commander [loader] jumped out of the tank, put out the fire with snow and their coats, dragged the wounded out, tended to their wounds, and climbed into their tank once more. 

 
Comrade Vaisser's powerful tank was no longer able to move, but the gun was operational, and the heroic commander fought on. A Tiger and a Panther were knocked out, but the immobile tank was a target, and the enemy knew this. Powerful fire from enemy SPGs destroyed the tank and set it on fire, wounding the turret commander. Guards Junior Lieutenant Vaisser was killed and burned up with the tank. "
 
The tank starting to burn doesn't mean it's out of the fight yet.

KeystoneCops, on 14 June 2015 - 12:51 PM, said:


ChopperGreg VGC #8 Posted 25 December 2014 - 04:59 AM

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I'm with Matthew on this.  While it may sound like the morally correct thing to do, a tank that can not move can still shoot back, while it's no longer a mobile gun platform, it is still a heavily armed pillbox, that can still kill you.

TheStallionM4ng #9 Posted 14 January 2015 - 11:39 AM

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did the Panther not have time to do to the Sherman as the Pershing did unto him?

STLxSTANG #10 Posted 14 January 2015 - 11:52 AM

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This is combat and they were combatants. This isnt a friendly game of paintball. You kill them and keep killing them until they can no longer kill you.

 

 

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IronBallsMatt #11 Posted 14 January 2015 - 12:51 PM

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View PostSG Kage, on 18 December 2014 - 07:24 PM, said:

Watching that made me a little sick.

 

yes, I agree. It is fascinating footage but the reality of this film reminds us that we play a game

 

there are absolutely no morals in war btw, very dangerous to pretend otherwise


Edited by Mattbot 360, 14 January 2015 - 12:52 PM.


CapnLeftHook #12 Posted 14 January 2015 - 01:35 PM

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I don't know what terrifies me more, the thought of trying to escape a burning tank under fire or the thought of being depth charged and sunk (but not catastrophically breached).

 

Great find on that clip Matthew J35U5


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FormerAlloy0290 #13 Posted 14 January 2015 - 02:07 PM

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Was this scenario redone for greatest tank battles ..documentarys I deffs think I seen it somewhere were the tankers talked about it..

Matthew J35U5 #14 Posted 14 January 2015 - 02:12 PM

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View PostCapnLeftHook, on 14 January 2015 - 08:35 AM, said:

I don't know what terrifies me more, the thought of trying to escape a burning tank under fire or the thought of being depth charged and sunk (but not catastrophically breached).

 

Great find on that clip Matthew J35U5

 

Maybe this will make you feel better:

On the one hand, I've heard that when a sub sinks the pressure on the internal air does really bad things. 

On the other, even if you escaped your burning tank, if the battle is still raging around you, you would often need some form of cover to stay alive... which would often only be available in the form of your burning tank. Oh, and as the tank burns, there's a good chance that the HE rounds will catch fire and violently explode... which would of course kill anyone using the tank for cover. 

Though if Dmitriy Loza can be believed, the explosive material in American HE rounds was much more stable than any other combatant's, and would tend not to violently explode when set on fire. 

How is this supposed to make you feel better? Good question. :trollface:

KeystoneCops, on 14 June 2015 - 12:51 PM, said:


CapnLeftHook #15 Posted 14 January 2015 - 02:27 PM

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It doesn't. Not one tiny bit does it make me feel better :D

 

 Though upon further brown stain inducing thinking, the thought of being in a tumbling, burning, fighter or bomber is equally as horrifying, at least if the g's get to be too much you'd have the hope of passing out


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STLxSTANG #16 Posted 14 January 2015 - 02:48 PM

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View PostCapnLeftHook, on 14 January 2015 - 08:27 AM, said:

It doesn't. Not one tiny bit does it make me feel better :D

 

 Though upon further brown stain inducing thinking, the thought of being in a tumbling, burning, fighter or bomber is equally as horrifying, at least if the g's get to be too much you'd have the hope of passing out

How about riding a craft headed for a beachhead on Dday?


 

 

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CapnLeftHook #17 Posted 14 January 2015 - 02:58 PM

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View PostSTLxSTANG, on 14 January 2015 - 02:48 PM, said:

How about riding a craft headed for a beachhead on Dday?

 

That I think I could handle (I've been shot at so I'm good there though not on that scale), granted I'd still be scared to death as any rational person should be, but it's the thought of being encased in something without the possibility of getting out that gets me, it's the claustrophobic in me.

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STLxSTANG #18 Posted 14 January 2015 - 03:09 PM

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View PostCapnLeftHook, on 14 January 2015 - 08:58 M, said:

 

That I think I could handle (Ive been shot at so Im good there though not on that scale), granted I'd scared to death as any rational person should be, but it's the thought of being encased in something without the possibility of getting out that gets me, it's the claustrophobic in me.

 

For me action is easier than anticipation.  The ride to the beachhead is one of the most frightening things I can think of. 

"Fear sharpens your senses. Being afraid is a state of paralysis in which you cant do anything." Marcus Luttrell

 

To the bolded. Me too and I cant ever imagine being good with it. 


 

 

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CapnLeftHook #19 Posted 14 January 2015 - 03:13 PM

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Yeah I'm not good with it either, but I'm good as in I never want to be shot at again, just to clarify :hiding:. That was a terrifying instance. Though truth be told I think I could wrangle my claustrophobia to be in a tank, especially in these modern times

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bob3464 #20 Posted 14 January 2015 - 03:24 PM

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View PostSM Scorx, on 19 December 2014 - 07:04 AM, said:

 

But, it looks like the rest of the crew made it out. If I was the Pershing commander & saw all of them bailing out like that, I'd tell the my crew to cease fire & watch them scramble out, then take the Panther as a prize.

 

Compassion wasn't running high at that point in the war. I think the Allies were fed up having to fight a war that was won but an enemy that wouldn't quit and have seen too much needless death, destruction and carnage.

These guys were going home soon and they knew it, so each death at that point was a real pity. 

And the Pershing crew knew what the Panther crew just did to their buddies in the Sherman ...  

 


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