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Does Germany win in this WWII scenario?


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Radica1Cat #41 Posted 02 May 2015 - 02:41 AM

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View Postx Der Meister x, on 01 May 2015 - 09:36 PM, said:

Last I checked this is my thread. If you don't like my opinion the door is right over there. 

 

This was meant to be a fantasy scenario. I created a situation and asked what do you think happened after said situation. Instead of doing that you seem to be on your own personal quest to inject the REALITY about the war into every post. 

 

Say it with me: "Fantasy".

You're implying that your opinion is a fantasy now. :x


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x Der Meister x #42 Posted 02 May 2015 - 02:46 AM

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View PostmonkeyCOWman, on 01 May 2015 - 11:34 PM, said:

Well, I don't think so and I believe no matter how you bend history Germany wouldn't have won. Even if Russia fell (which again I don't feel like there was any chance of that happening either) Germany still needed to deal with England and America, and America having a much bigger supply infrastructure then Germany. If Japan committed troops to Russia then they're loosing troops to the fight in the pacific (which in reality was their #1 priority) That would be less pressure on american island hopping and in turn allow more european support. (this just wouldn't happen, if Russia fell, it fell from Germany only no Japanese support)

I think over all in the war would have been won by the allies, Russia ended the war sooner, but without them it would have been a loss for Germany anyway, longer war but still a loss. Remember America had plenty of advance tanks and planes in development that never faced Germany in the real war (even if Germany made their own advance weapons they wouldn't have had the lasting supplies to keep them going) and if we're playing a what if they would have been plenty of reason for Germany to surrender after nuclear bombing(s). 

Im not doubting Amerika's resources and production abilities. The fact is tho, with Russia out of the picture, Germany can now transfer the bulk of its air force and troops Westward, consolidating their position there. 

 

How will a "D-day" scenario occur if Germany has 3 million troops in France along with thousands of planes that would stop any nuclear attack ? Don 't forget the U.S didn't have ICBMs yet, the bomb had to be physically flown over Germany and dropped. How does that happen when they have complete air superiority and no threat to their rear to distract them? 


 


Matthew J35U5 #43 Posted 02 May 2015 - 02:47 AM

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View Postx Der Meister x, on 01 May 2015 - 09:36 PM, said:

Last I checked this is my thread. If you don't like my opinion the door is right over there. 

 

This was meant to be a fantasy scenario. I created a situation and asked what do you think happened after said situation. Instead of doing that you seem to be on your own personal quest to inject the REALITY about the war into every post. 

 

Say it with me: "Fantasy".

I like it just fine here thanks, nothing I like better than telling people like you how they're wrong. The reality about your fantasy scenario is that it involves genocide on unprecedented scale, and I'm not going to let you ignore that. 


KeystoneCops, on 14 June 2015 - 12:51 PM, said:


Buick350X #44 Posted 02 May 2015 - 02:48 AM

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Germany should have left Russia alone.

 

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Matthew J35U5 #45 Posted 02 May 2015 - 02:49 AM

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View Postx Der Meister x, on 01 May 2015 - 09:46 PM, said:

Im not doubting Amerika's resources and production abilities. The fact is tho, with Russia out of the picture, Germany can now transfer the bulk of its air force and troops Westward, consolidating their position there. 

 

How will a "D-day" scenario occur if Germany has 3 million troops in France along with thousands of planes that would stop any nuclear attack ? Don 't forget the U.S didn't have ICBMs yet, the bomb had to be physically flown over Germany and dropped. How does that happen when they have complete air superiority and no threat to their rear to distract them? 

The Americans come, shoot down their planes, bomb their cities to rubble, and then nuke them. 


KeystoneCops, on 14 June 2015 - 12:51 PM, said:


STLxSTANG #46 Posted 02 May 2015 - 02:50 AM

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View Postx Der Meister x, on 01 May 2015 - 08:46 PM, said:

Im not doubting Amerika's resources and production abilities. The fact is tho, with Russia out of the picture, Germany can now transfer the bulk of its air force and troops Westward, consolidating their position there. 

 

How will a "D-day" scenario occur if Germany has 3 million troops in France along with thousands of planes that would stop any nuclear attack ? Don 't forget the U.S didn't have ICBMs yet, the bomb had to be physically flown over Germany and dropped. How does that happen when they have complete air superiority and no threat to their rear to distract them? 

Germany with air superiority? Lol You DO love fantasy!


 

 

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UnsoundDineen #47 Posted 02 May 2015 - 02:51 AM

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View PostRadica1Cat, on 02 May 2015 - 01:51 AM, said:

Then quote that?

 

here, the first arms race


Edited by UnsoundDineen, 02 May 2015 - 02:55 AM.

 

 


STLxSTANG #48 Posted 02 May 2015 - 02:51 AM

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View PostMatthew J35U5, on 01 May 2015 - 08:49 PM, said:

The Americans come, shoot down their planes, bomb their cities to rubble, and then nuke them. 

Ninjad


 

 

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x Der Meister x #49 Posted 02 May 2015 - 02:52 AM

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View PostRadica1Cat, on 02 May 2015 - 03:41 AM, said:

You're implying that your opinion is a fantasy now. :x

Touché.  

 

Reading his responses to me and other formers posts, it just seems like he didn't understand the original concept of this thread. I created a backdrop that everyone could add on to. Instead of doing that he tries to shove what actually happened in there, or other facts that discredit my OP. Which YES is fantasy lol :p .


 


x Der Meister x #50 Posted 02 May 2015 - 02:54 AM

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View PostSTLxSTANG, on 02 May 2015 - 03:50 AM, said:

Germany with air superiority? Lol You DO love fantasy!

I do :) .

 

This scenario is based in late 1941, early 1942. This is before Amerika's massive mobilization and before they produced 100,000 fighter planes and bombers. 


 


STLxSTANG #51 Posted 02 May 2015 - 02:56 AM

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View Postx Der Meister x, on 01 May 2015 - 08:52 PM, said:

Touché.  

 

Reading his responses to me and other formers posts, it just seems like he didn't understand the original concept of this thread. I created a backdrop that everyone could add on to. Instead of doing that he tries to shove what actually happened in there, or other facts that discredit my OP. Which YES is fantasy lol :p .

Then aliens come and blow up the planet! Too much fantasy? I thought we were just doing whatever we wanted now, per your last post.


 

 

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x Der Meister x #52 Posted 02 May 2015 - 02:59 AM

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Going by my OP that has Germany in command of the Caucasus. What does everyone think about a potential two-pronged attack aimed at British positions in the Middle East? Success rate and whatnot.

 

The second prong coming from Rommel in North Africa of course.


 


Matthew J35U5 #53 Posted 02 May 2015 - 03:03 AM

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View Postx Der Meister x, on 01 May 2015 - 09:52 PM, said:

View PostRadica1Cat, on 02 May 2015 - 03:41 AM, said:

You're implying that your opinion is a fantasy now. :x

Touché.  

 

Reading his responses to me and other formers posts, it just seems like he didn't understand the original concept of this thread. I created a backdrop that everyone could add on to. Instead of doing that he tries to shove what actually happened in there, or other facts that discredit my OP. Which YES is fantasy lol :p .

Oh no, I understood exactly what you intended. 

View Postx Der Meister x, on 01 May 2015 - 09:54 PM, said:

I do :) .

 

This scenario is based in late 1941, early 1942. This is before Amerika's massive mobilization and before they produced 100,000 fighter planes and bombers. 

I don't want anyone to misunderstand, that sentence should be parsed as, 100,000 fighter planes and 100,000 bombers. Not like Germany which produced less than 100,000 of both fighter planes and bombers combined. 



x Der Meister x #54 Posted 02 May 2015 - 03:07 AM

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View PostSTLxSTANG, on 02 May 2015 - 03:56 AM, said:

Then aliens come and blow up the planet! Too much fantasy? I thought we were just doing whatever we wanted now, per your last post. 

 

Now you're just being a smart a** lol.

 

Fantasy: As in, it didn't actually happen, but we can speculate on alternate scenarios that could have occurred. While still staying true to the original event itself. 

 

So no aliens! 


 


x Der Meister x #55 Posted 02 May 2015 - 03:22 AM

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View PostMatthew J35U5, on 02 May 2015 - 04:03 AM, said:

Oh no, I understood exactly what you intended. 

I don't want anyone to misunderstand, that sentence should be parsed as, 100,000 fighter planes and 100,000 bombers. Not like Germany which produced less than 100,000 of both fighter planes and bombers combined. 

Thanks for that. I attempted to guess the actual production figure. I knew it was somewhere up there in the insane amount range. 

 

Your'e right. Then again it can be tough, you know, to mass produce weapons while being attacked from both sides and bombed into oblivion. Every country in the war didn't have the luxury of being isolated by two oceans, far from the raging world conflict. 

 

You know what scenario always fascinated me? If one were to remove the USSR from the geographical map and plug the U.S in there so it's connected to Europe, replacing the USSR. How would they have fared during the initial stages of Barbarossa. Better, same, or worse? Rather interesting. 


 


Matthew J35U5 #56 Posted 02 May 2015 - 03:23 AM

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So I was thinking about a scenario where in 1940 when Germany attacks France & Britain, Stalin decides to break his non-agression pact, invades Germany, Germans immediately surrender, the Soviet Union annexes the entire country, and decides to kill all of the ethnic Germans because of how troublesome they are. 

So, once we've gotten to that point, how does everyone think the Soviet Union would fare in a war against Italy?
 
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KeystoneCops, on 14 June 2015 - 12:51 PM, said:


Matthew J35U5 #57 Posted 02 May 2015 - 03:26 AM

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View Postx Der Meister x, on 01 May 2015 - 10:22 PM, said:

Thanks for that. I attempted to guess the actual production figure. I knew it was somewhere up there in the insane amount range. 

 

Your'e right. Then again it can be tough, you know, to mass produce weapons while being attacked from both sides and bombed into oblivion. Every country in the war didn't have the luxury of being isolated by two oceans, far from the raging world conflict. 

 

You know what scenario always fascinated me? If one were to remove the USSR from the geographical map and plug the U.S in there so it's connected to Europe, replacing the USSR. How would they have fared during the initial stages of Barbarossa. Better, same, or worse? Rather interesting. 

What if an immigrant to America in the 1930's named Joe Steele turned it into a communist dictatorship, and an American immigrant to Russia named Bob (I don't know russian well enough to russify FDR's name), managed to turn it into a liberal democracy? 

The answer to your particular question is rather unanswerable as America located in europe is not going to be as isolationist as America-America would be. The events leading up to Barbarossa wouldn't work at all with the USA in place of the USSR. 


KeystoneCops, on 14 June 2015 - 12:51 PM, said:


x Der Meister x #58 Posted 02 May 2015 - 03:27 AM

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View PostMatthew J35U5, on 02 May 2015 - 04:23 AM, said:

So I was thinking about a scenario where in 1940 when Germany attacks France & Britain, Stalin decides to break his non-agression pact, invades Germany, Germans immediately surrender, the Soviet Union annexes the entire country, and decides to kill all of the ethnic Germans because of how troublesome they are. 

So, once we've gotten to that point, how does everyone think the Soviet Union would fare in a war against Italy?
 
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Cute.

 

With the state of the Soviet army in 1940, and going by their encounter in Finland, I doubt Stalin makes it through Poland.

 

The German High Command shares a drink and laughs at Stalins pathetic attempt at deception.


 


Matthew J35U5 #59 Posted 02 May 2015 - 03:29 AM

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View Postx Der Meister x, on 01 May 2015 - 10:27 PM, said:

Cute.

 

With the state of the Soviet army in 1940, and going by their encounter in Finland, I doubt Stalin makes it through Poland.

 

The German High Command shares a drink and laughs at Stalins pathetic attempt at deception.

No, no, you see, in my "scenario" the Germans surrender immediately, even though they have no reason to, and it really doesn't make sense that they would. I would like you to stop trying to ignore my scenario in favour of what would happen in real life. 

Edit: Also, to be clear, the Germans surrender knowing in advance that Stalin plans on murdering all of them. 


KeystoneCops, on 14 June 2015 - 12:51 PM, said:


x Der Meister x #60 Posted 02 May 2015 - 03:32 AM

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View PostMatthew J35U5, on 02 May 2015 - 04:26 AM, said:

What if an immigrant to America in the 1930's named Joe Steele turned it into a communist dictatorship, and an American immigrant to Russia named Bob (I don't know russian well enough to russify FDR's name), managed to turn it into a liberal democracy? 

The answer to your particular question is rather unanswerable as America located in europe is not going to be as isolationist as America-America would be. The events leading up to Barbarossa wouldn't work at all with the USA in place of the USSR. 

If you would read my post instead of babbling you would see I never stated it was "the same" USA as IRL. Thats what makes it interesting. How would things have developed? 

 

I mean obviously if they were still isolationist, the result would be pretty clear. 3.5 million Axis troops versus what, 100,000 American troops? 


 





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