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Most important person in the Allied victory?


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WidowMaker1711 #101 Posted 06 August 2015 - 02:09 PM

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View PostROBYNHO MILANO, on 06 August 2015 - 12:39 PM, said:

yes i agree why did hitler halt the advance on dunkirk for 48 hours,, it was judged a bad decision, historians have been arguing about this for so long ,, 

 

 

Because Goering said he could destroy them from the air. The first of several occasions Goerings pride and self propoganda got the better of the germans


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Sqn Ldr B #102 Posted 06 August 2015 - 02:14 PM

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Goering was a fat, perverted, useless, pompous idiot. He claimed time and again that the Luftwaffe was superior and could handle things, kept getting destroyed by the RAF and USAAF, and also made himself out to be Hitler's best friend. By the time the Soviets were in Berlin, Hitler had ordered Goering arrested and executed. The only brilliant overwhelming success the Luftwaffe had was against the Soviet air force in the first few days of the invasion.

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IronBallsMatt #103 Posted 06 August 2015 - 02:18 PM

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Richard Wagner

 

he inspired a corporal to think he was an emperor and charge relentlessly into defeat despite the best efforts of the outstanding military expertise at his disposal

 

I also think Churchill's work to keep the Allies together meant there actually was an "Allied Victory" as opposed to a Soviet one, or however things would have turned out

 


Edited by Mattbot 360, 06 August 2015 - 02:18 PM.


ArtyHarHar #104 Posted 06 August 2015 - 02:23 PM

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The Emperor of Japan. He got the US off the fence and all in with a vengeance. Declaring war is one thing. But getting an entire nation polarized, self-sacrificing and in full support means so much more. He indeed did awaken a sleeping giant that was divided and hesitant.  Even if the US had entered the war later it would not have been with the total commitment to victory that it was.  The attack on Pearl Harbor sealed the fate of the Axis.  A war in Europe was one thing. But when it hits your shores it's a wake up call.  Would we have stayed out of it if we wasn't attacked? Maybe, maybe not. But it sure wouldn't have been with the same determination.

                                       


Schlauen Wolf #105 Posted 06 August 2015 - 02:48 PM

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View Postleova, on 01 May 2015 - 04:34 PM, said:

I kinda feel like a jerkbag saying this, because I'm Russian AND Jewish....but honestly, Hitler had more to do with the Allied Victory and any other single person on either side of the War

 

His stubbornness, ego, greed, unparalleled racism, and unbelievable evil led him to fail horrendously when he overreached.

 

As they say in Star Wars,

"The more you tighten your grip, the more systems will slip through your fingers."

 

  I can't believe I didn't see this thread until now, leova, your right on the money in that regard. Besides that monsters one dimensional logic, I honestly believ not one single person could be singeled out as The ONE. Yea, the generals came up with battle plans, but, as some of us know firsthand, those plans are obsolete a millisecond after the recoil of the first bullet fired at the enemy. Call me old fashioned, but, I belive the greatest person is - ANY CITIZEN, EVERY SOLDIER THAT NEVER STOPPED RESISTING the Nazi scourge. It's really sad, after the War that the " leaders " had to still be paranoid, power hungry idiots as to split like they did. Imagine the World if the US/UK/RUS did NOT turn on each other, who blinked first- who cares, the fact that someone did is ALL of OUR problem now. We, could've been to freeking Mars by now, who knows...

 

 

 

                              .... IT IS UP TO ALL OF US TO FIX IT, FOR ALL WHO HAD FALLEN FOR US, THEN.  Salute'


 

                


Schlauen Wolf #106 Posted 06 August 2015 - 02:55 PM

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View PostWidowMaker1711, on 06 August 2015 - 08:09 AM, said:

 

Because Goering said he could destroy them from the air. The first of several occasions Goerings pride and self propoganda got the better of the germans

 

 

 

 

  Yea fast forward 23 years when LeMay believed that the US could conduct " crowd control " from 30,000ft over a lil steamy jungle in South East Asia. Ego's don't  care how many, or who they kill.


Edited by VGC PAINCAKE, 06 August 2015 - 03:01 PM.

 

                


Sqn Ldr B #107 Posted 06 August 2015 - 03:20 PM

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View PostArtyHarHar, on 06 August 2015 - 02:23 PM, said:

The Emperor of Japan. He got the US off the fence and all in with a vengeance. Declaring war is one thing. But getting an entire nation polarized, self-sacrificing and in full support means so much more. He indeed did awaken a sleeping giant that was divided and hesitant.  Even if the US had entered the war later it would not have been with the total commitment to victory that it was.  The attack on Pearl Harbor sealed the fate of the Axis.  A war in Europe was one thing. But when it hits your shores it's a wake up call.  Would we have stayed out of it if we wasn't attacked? Maybe, maybe not. But it sure wouldn't have been with the same determination.

 

To be fair, the Emperor had little power other than symbolic, he was controlled by the Army, which practically ran the government. You'd have to blame people like the Prime Minister, Tojo, and military planners like Yamamoto.

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IBROX 04 #108 Posted 06 August 2015 - 03:27 PM

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View PostWidowMaker1711, on 06 August 2015 - 02:09 PM, said:

 

Because Goering said he could destroy them from the air. The first of several occasions Goerings pride and self propoganda got the better of the germans

 

there was a theory that hitler let the allies go in hopes of that the greatefull british would sue for peace,  tho the Goering theory is possibly right 

 


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ArtyHarHar #109 Posted 06 August 2015 - 03:29 PM

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View PostSqn Ldr B, on 06 August 2015 - 10:20 AM, said:

 

To be fair, the Emperor had little power other than symbolic, he was controlled by the Army, which practically ran the government. You'd have to blame people like the Prime Minister, Tojo, and military planners like Yamamoto.

 True enough; I guess they didn't have enough consolidated power in one person to be the most important person but I think still it was the major pivotal moment.


                                       


WidowMaker1711 #110 Posted 06 August 2015 - 03:39 PM

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View PostROBYNHO MILANO, on 06 August 2015 - 03:27 PM, said:

 

there was a theory that hitler let the allies go in hopes of that the greatefull british would sue for peace,  tho theGoering theory is possibly right 

 

 

I think its a bit of both. Right up to the end Hitler was saying that the fight should have been with the russians. 


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Sqn Ldr B #111 Posted 06 August 2015 - 03:40 PM

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Hitler was quoted as saying during the Battle of Britain that the ''English are not our natural enemies''.

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IBROX 04 #112 Posted 06 August 2015 - 05:20 PM

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View PostWidowMaker1711, on 06 August 2015 - 03:39 PM, said:

 

I think its a bit of both. Right up to the end Hitler was saying that the fight should have been with the russians. 

 

yes and then Hitler trusts Goering to supply Stalingrad by air  , i thought that was what you was getting at few posts up ,   


Edited by ROBYNHO MILANO, 06 August 2015 - 06:55 PM.

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GroomingChief65 #113 Posted 06 August 2015 - 11:15 PM

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View PostROBYNHO MILANO, on 06 August 2015 - 07:39 AM, said:

yes i agree why did hitler halt the advance on dunkirk for 48 hours,, it was judged a bad decision, historians have been arguing about this for so long ,,

 

,

 

 

 

Hopefully people don't mind me getting deeper into my personal opinions I have not read any WWII books in over a decade, but there was a time when I was well-read on the subject... anyway to your point, I would suggest the halt order was an act of mercy as in the old days of chivalry Hitler was seeing himself as the noble knight sparing the British at Dunkirk death by the sword -- by this gesture he was expecting they'd immediately sue for a peace agreement. However when that doesn't occur, the next step was to punt things off to Goering, giving him his blessing to try by air power, and this isn't so much to obliterate them but more to continue applying pressure waiting for them to come to their senses, in Hitler's mind now there really isn't time for this nonsense sideshow and he sees Churchill as a madman who won't sensibly give in.  Events are now in motion, he's on a strict timetable and many of his plans to invade nations were probably thought out years in advance I suspect years before taking power these scenarios played out in his head. i.e. after I do X then Russia must be invaded within X months. In Hitler's world view, God is manifest in the race, there is an eternal 'will' guiding the universe and which creates the aristocracy seen in nature, the British being part of the race means to destroy them as a nation goes against natural order. When his world view is fully understood (which is largely social Darwinism / Eugenics and so on, all popular at the time) then some of his decision-making which appears to be entirely illogical can at least be understood.



HAWKLANDER #114 Posted 06 August 2015 - 11:21 PM

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The common everyday infantryman from all Allied armies . 


DStegCat #115 Posted 07 August 2015 - 03:05 PM

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View PostHAWKLANDER, on 06 August 2015 - 05:21 PM, said:

The common everyday infantryman from all Allied armies . 

 


      Adding to this the infantryman is nowhere without the manufacturing, transport, and supply arms.  The infantryman was the pointy end of a very long spear that kept grinding against the defenders shield.  Think shield wall phalanx with winner being those with the best behind pushing.  Attrition in the end shows the allies with more spears.

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