Jump to content


Most important person in the Allied victory?


  • This topic is locked This topic is locked
114 replies to this topic

Matthew J35U5 #41 Posted 07 May 2015 - 10:49 PM

    Major

  • Players
  • 14028 battles
  • 12,033
  • [GIRLS]
  • Member since:
    09-09-2013

View PostGingerNinjaMax, on 07 May 2015 - 05:40 PM, said:

 

you read the wrong page. and if you turn over there is a bit on Bio Nukes. 100 megatons of cow sh!t

Heh. 

Seriously though, biofuels seem like an expensive way to *just* be carbon neutral. Fission is a good technology that isn't appreciated enough. We should do more with it. People can talk all they like about how scary nuclear power is, but coal plants have killed/shortened the lives of/caused health problems for far more people than any nuclear power disasters have. Nuclear waste may be an issue, but were we to use more efficient nuclear power plants that use more than 1% of the fissile material, we could have 100x as many nuclear power plants, and generate no more waste than we do now. 

(Or however you wanted it to work out. Using 99% of the fissile material instead of 1% will drastically reduce the volume of nuclear waste.)


KeystoneCops, on 14 June 2015 - 12:51 PM, said:


ChopperGreg VGC #42 Posted 07 May 2015 - 11:10 PM

    First lieutenant

  • Beta Tester
  • 4712 battles
  • 669
  • Member since:
    08-24-2013

View PostMatthew J35U5, on 07 May 2015 - 04:07 AM, said:

 

Night vision technology had parallel projects in the Soviet Union and Britain (I assume America did as well, but idk). 

Wire-guided missiles could be a possible candidate. 

 

I would point out that the U.S., was working on radio controlled optic guided missiles, that were based on very early TV cameras and receivers as early as '43.  The entire idea was that the missiles were basically older model B-17 that were supposed to be loaded with explosives a TV cameras in the nose and another pointed at the flight instruments.

 

The RC operator was supposed to be in another aircraft 20 miles away, but they never got a strong enough TV signal working well enough to get more than about 5-10 miles, before the war ended.

 

OTOH, it was working well enough to be used during the pacific atomic test to study the effects of atomic blasts on aircraft and crew in flight.



Matthew J35U5 #43 Posted 08 May 2015 - 12:11 AM

    Major

  • Players
  • 14028 battles
  • 12,033
  • [GIRLS]
  • Member since:
    09-09-2013

View PostChopperGreg VGC, on 07 May 2015 - 06:10 PM, said:

 

I would point out that the U.S., was working on radio controlled optic guided missiles, that were based on very early TV cameras and receivers as early as '43.  The entire idea was that the missiles were basically older model B-17 that were supposed to be loaded with explosives a TV cameras in the nose and another pointed at the flight instruments.

 

The RC operator was supposed to be in another aircraft 20 miles away, but they never got a strong enough TV signal working well enough to get more than about 5-10 miles, before the war ended.

 

OTOH, it was working well enough to be used during the pacific atomic test to study the effects of atomic blasts on aircraft and crew in flight.

 

That wouldn't surprise me. I don't really know enough about everything developed to want and say that the Germans invented X. The Germans were the only people desperate enough to field X, maybe. 

KeystoneCops, on 14 June 2015 - 12:51 PM, said:


Niles Y93 #44 Posted 08 May 2015 - 12:12 AM

    First lieutenant

  • Players
  • 10040 battles
  • 801
  • Member since:
    02-15-2014

View PostMatthew J35U5, on 05 May 2015 - 10:46 PM, said:

 

I fail to see how it is relevant whether the Meteor saw combat (idk, don't care to check). We were discussing things invented by the Nazis and stolen by the allies post-occupation. Neither fighter jets nor rockets fall into that category. 

 

I will say this last thing before I am done, but the Horten 229 is considered the world's first twin jet pure flying wing design. So, technically, the flying wing, if not the "perfected" version, was taken out of Germany after the war.

Niles Y93 #45 Posted 08 May 2015 - 12:15 AM

    First lieutenant

  • Players
  • 10040 battles
  • 801
  • Member since:
    02-15-2014

View PostChopperGreg VGC, on 07 May 2015 - 06:10 PM, said:

 

I would point out that the U.S., was working on radio controlled optic guided missiles, that were based on very early TV cameras and receivers as early as '43.  The entire idea was that the missiles were basically older model B-17 that were supposed to be loaded with explosives a TV cameras in the nose and another pointed at the flight instruments.

 

The RC operator was supposed to be in another aircraft 20 miles away, but they never got a strong enough TV signal working well enough to get more than about 5-10 miles, before the war ended.

 

OTOH, it was working well enough to be used during the pacific atomic test to study the effects of atomic blasts on aircraft and crew in flight.

 

That would be Project Aphrodite. The Navy was doing this as well, under Project Anvil, except they used PB4Y's.

 

Fun Fact: Joseph P. Kennedy Jr., JFK's eldest brother, was killed during Project Anvil when his BQ-8, Navy variant of the B-24 Liberator, detonated prematurely over the Blyth estuary in eastern England.


Edited by Niles Y93, 08 May 2015 - 12:21 AM.


Matthew J35U5 #46 Posted 08 May 2015 - 12:19 AM

    Major

  • Players
  • 14028 battles
  • 12,033
  • [GIRLS]
  • Member since:
    09-09-2013

View PostNiles Y93, on 07 May 2015 - 07:12 PM, said:

 

I will say this last thing before I am done, but the Horten 229 is considered the world's first twin jet pure flying wing design. So, technically, the flying wing, if not the "perfected" version, was taken out of Germany after the war.

Who cares? Really, I know you have a thing with this plane, but flying wings were experimented with by nations across the world. If you define things narrowly enough, sure you can find a way that Germany was "first". But it seems a bit of a stretch to suggest that, while many nations had experimented with flying wings, and many nations had experimented with jet engines, Nazi Germany was responsible for the idea of *gasps* putting jet engines in flying wings. 

This falls into a similar category as the V2 rockets, something developed by Nazi Germany, not something /invented/ by Nazi Germany. 


KeystoneCops, on 14 June 2015 - 12:51 PM, said:


ChopperGreg VGC #47 Posted 08 May 2015 - 12:52 AM

    First lieutenant

  • Beta Tester
  • 4712 battles
  • 669
  • Member since:
    08-24-2013

View PostNiles Y93, on 07 May 2015 - 05:12 PM, said:

 

I will say this last thing before I am done, but the Horten 229 is considered the world's first twin jet pure flying wing design. So, technically, the flying wing, if not the "perfected" version, was taken out of Germany after the war.

 

Sorry to pop your bubble, but the Northrop XP-79, had been under development since '42. 

It was flight tested as a glider, in '44.

 

The Horten 229, added nothing to the US flying wing tech, being independently developed.

 



FlukenJager #48 Posted 09 May 2015 - 04:58 PM

    Major

  • Players
  • 18174 battles
  • 2,792
  • Member since:
    01-19-2015

View PostCrazedtiger77, on 01 May 2015 - 09:51 PM, said:

Being as we're approaching VE day, I thought it would be interesting to discuss which military person was the most important in the eventual Allied victory in Europe in 1945. I'll share my thoughts later, but who do you think was the most vital?

 

If you listened to his stories… It was my Great Uncle, he was clearly THE decisive military figure in the whole war! :amazed:

Edited by FlukeyHen7502, 09 May 2015 - 04:59 PM.


DStegCat #49 Posted 12 May 2015 - 04:50 PM

    Major

  • Players
  • 25012 battles
  • 2,031
  • [BACON]
  • Member since:
    05-24-2014
     The most important person in WW2 was the common soldier.  Call him Ivan, Tommy, Joe, or GIrene.  The war was won by taking and holding territory until capitulation by unconditional surrender. 

nam et ipsa scientia potestas est (for knowledge is itself power)  Francis Bacon - 1597

More Bacon


Matthew J35U5 #50 Posted 14 May 2015 - 03:48 PM

    Major

  • Players
  • 14028 battles
  • 12,033
  • [GIRLS]
  • Member since:
    09-09-2013

View PostDStegCat, on 12 May 2015 - 11:50 AM, said:

     The most important person in WW2 was the common soldier.  Call him Ivan, Tommy, Joe, or GIrene.  The war was won by taking and holding territory until capitulation by unconditional surrender. 

Who? (Or is that intentional to show that it doesn't matter?)


KeystoneCops, on 14 June 2015 - 12:51 PM, said:


DStegCat #51 Posted 14 May 2015 - 10:03 PM

    Major

  • Players
  • 25012 battles
  • 2,031
  • [BACON]
  • Member since:
    05-24-2014

Both.

    The foot soldier took and held ground despite micro management by Generals, Premiers, Presidents, Prime Ministers, and Chancellors.  At times they succeeded despite poor unit leadership.  The leaders were at times a hindrance.

  Without taking/holding ground an objective/battle/war is lost.

 

  A better argument may be that the NCO was the most important person.  They built the soldier.


nam et ipsa scientia potestas est (for knowledge is itself power)  Francis Bacon - 1597

More Bacon


PLK180W #52 Posted 16 May 2015 - 05:34 PM

    Major

  • Players
  • 61 battles
  • 7,907
  • Member since:
    10-29-2014

I would say the code breaking teams in the US and UK and the teams that researched, refined and developed Radar.

Both of these were probably the greatest advantages the Allies had.

I would also say the individuals who were responsible for putting the American factory's onto war production,  in the Second World War, America was the Arsenal of Democracy. 

I just wish they didn't listen to British tank designers!


Through The Mud And Blood To The Green Fields Beyond

WidowMaker1711 #53 Posted 16 May 2015 - 10:12 PM

    Major

  • Players
  • 11837 battles
  • 10,002
  • [BNKR]
  • Member since:
    02-12-2014

View PostPLK180W, on 16 May 2015 - 05:34 PM, said:

I would say the code breaking teams in the US and UK and the teams that researched, refined and developed Radar.

Both of these were probably the greatest advantages the Allies had.

I would also say the individuals who were responsible for putting the American factory's onto war production,  in the Second World War, America was the Arsenal of Democracy. 

I just wish they didn't listen to British tank designers!

 

Dont forget the Photo Reconnaisance guys. The UK started the war with a civilian run outfit then it became military and when the US joined the war they just slotted in with the Brits keeping all the Interpretation in one location. Unlike the Germans who only ever did it piecemeal and unit by unit. No cohesion and no way to hold a viable comparison.


For Russ and the Allfather

 

 


JASON BOURNE450 #54 Posted 17 May 2015 - 09:54 PM

    Sergeant

  • Players
  • 9396 battles
  • 218
  • Member since:
    02-12-2014

1) Hitler- For all the mistakes he made

2)Hermann Georing- for underestimating the RAF during the Battle of Britain

3)Benito Mussolini- Delayed operation Barborosa by invading and getting stuck in the Balkans and crying for Hitler to help (I could go on)

4)Winston Churchill- Provided the leadership that Britain needed to hold out long enough

5)Gregory Zhukov- Broke the Moscow deadlock and defeated Army group South at Stalingrad in what turned out to be the key moment of the war

6)Iosef Stalin- Motivated the Russian people hugely, his scorched earth policy denied the Germans huge amounts of resources.

7)Franklin D Roosevelt- Changed American Foreign policy at the right time to ensure Britain could survive(Lend-Lease), worked well with Churchill

8)Isoroku Yamamoto- Did not destroy the U.S Pacific Fleet at Pearl Harbor and failed to capture Midway, had he and the U.S would have been in some bother 

 


"The two most Powerful Warriors are patience and time" - Leo Tolstoy

 

Tanks Owned: JP E-100, Tiger(Otto), E-100, Jagdtiger,, PZ 38H, T110E5, Birch gun, Matilda, T-62A, KV-2, Churchill III, IS-3, ISU-152  Goal tanks: FV304 

 


DieHardELOFan86 #55 Posted 18 May 2015 - 03:57 AM

    Major

  • Beta Tester
  • 8973 battles
  • 4,061
  • Member since:
    08-13-2013

View PostKing oF Tatin, on 17 May 2015 - 03:54 PM, said:

1) Hitler- For all the mistakes he made

2)Hermann Georing- for underestimating the RAF during the Battle of Britain

3)Benito Mussolini- Delayed operation Barborosa by invading and getting stuck in the Balkans and crying for Hitler to help (I could go on)

4)Winston Churchill- Provided the leadership that Britain needed to hold out long enough

5)Gregory Zhukov- Broke the Moscow deadlock and defeated Army group South at Stalingrad in what turned out to be the key moment of the war

6)Iosef Stalin- Motivated the Russian people hugely, his scorched earth policy denied the Germans huge amounts of resources.

7)Franklin D Roosevelt- Changed American Foreign policy at the right time to ensure Britain could survive(Lend-Lease), worked well with Churchill

8)Isoroku Yamamoto- Did not destroy the U.S Pacific Fleet at Pearl Harbor and failed to capture Midway, had he and the U.S would have been in some bother

 

 

8. Isoroku Yamaoto indeed almost wipe out the whole entire U.S. American Navy. Let me put it this way almost all Battleships were out of commission only thing that U.S. have left was aircraft carriers USS Saratoga, Lexington, Ranger, Hornet, Yorktown, Enterprise and Wasp and plenty of Cruisers, Destroyers and Submarines.

 

Almost all Cruisers that I am aware of were assigned as screening force for the Carriers the only heavy cruiser that I know that wasn't part of Carrier fleet was USS Houston CA-30 nickname "Galloping Ghost of the Java Coast" she was station at Philippines at Panay then she headed for Darwin, Australia then she went to Balikpapan and Surabaya for patrol duty after that she joined ABDA command.


Signature by METALHELLIONx84, ELO ROCKS !!! thanks METALHELLIONx84 from DieHardELOFan86


Matthew J35U5 #56 Posted 18 May 2015 - 12:35 PM

    Major

  • Players
  • 14028 battles
  • 12,033
  • [GIRLS]
  • Member since:
    09-09-2013

View PostKing oF Tatin, on 17 May 2015 - 04:54 PM, said:

1) Hitler- For all the mistakes he made

2)Hermann Georing- for underestimating the RAF during the Battle of Britain

3)Benito Mussolini- Delayed operation Barborosa by invading and getting stuck in the Balkans and crying for Hitler to help (I could go on)

4)Winston Churchill- Provided the leadership that Britain needed to hold out long enough

5)Gregory Zhukov- Broke the Moscow deadlock and defeated Army group South at Stalingrad in what turned out to be the key moment of the war

6)Iosef Stalin- Motivated the Russian people hugely, his scorched earth policy denied the Germans huge amounts of resources.

7)Franklin D Roosevelt- Changed American Foreign policy at the right time to ensure Britain could survive(Lend-Lease), worked well with Churchill

8)Isoroku Yamamoto- Did not destroy the U.S Pacific Fleet at Pearl Harbor and failed to capture Midway, had he and the U.S would have been in some bother 

 

This is a good list overall, I would just want to comment that from what I understand, the Balkan misadventure didn't end up mattering for Barbarossa because the weather was less favourable than the German army expected, if Barbarossa had begun on its originally scheduled date, there would have been difficulty with mud. 

As you say though, it isn't as if there is a shortage of bad ideas that Mussolini had. :p


KeystoneCops, on 14 June 2015 - 12:51 PM, said:


JASON BOURNE450 #57 Posted 19 May 2015 - 06:57 PM

    Sergeant

  • Players
  • 9396 battles
  • 218
  • Member since:
    02-12-2014

View PostMatthew J35U5, on 18 May 2015 - 12:35 PM, said:

This is a good list overall, I would just want to comment that from what I understand, the Balkan misadventure didn't end up mattering for Barbarossa because the weather was less favourable than the German army expected, if Barbarossa had begun on its originally scheduled date, there would have been difficulty with mud. 

As you say though, it isn't as if there is a shortage of bad ideas that Mussolini had. :p

 

But Hitler did put a lot of resources and men into the Balkans, even after the German occupation the Partisans under Tito were a huge pain in Hitler's backside. He paid a big price for occupying ( I know at this stage the war was over)

"The two most Powerful Warriors are patience and time" - Leo Tolstoy

 

Tanks Owned: JP E-100, Tiger(Otto), E-100, Jagdtiger,, PZ 38H, T110E5, Birch gun, Matilda, T-62A, KV-2, Churchill III, IS-3, ISU-152  Goal tanks: FV304 

 


Panzerwerfer42 #58 Posted 25 May 2015 - 05:45 PM

    Captain

  • Players
  • 11593 battles
  • 1,459
  • Member since:
    12-29-2014

View PostKing oF Tatin, on 17 May 2015 - 09:54 PM, said:

1) Hitler- For all the mistakes he made

2)Hermann Georing- for underestimating the RAF during the Battle of Britain

3)Benito Mussolini- Delayed operation Barborosa by invading and getting stuck in the Balkans and crying for Hitler to help (I could go on)

4)Winston Churchill- Provided the leadership that Britain needed to hold out long enough

5)Gregory Zhukov- Broke the Moscow deadlock and defeated Army group South at Stalingrad in what turned out to be the key moment of the war

6)Iosef Stalin- Motivated the Russian people hugely, his scorched earth policy denied the Germans huge amounts of resources.

7)Franklin D Roosevelt- Changed American Foreign policy at the right time to ensure Britain could survive(Lend-Lease), worked well with Churchill

8)Isoroku Yamamoto- Did not destroy the U.S Pacific Fleet at Pearl Harbor and failed to capture Midway, had he and the U.S would have been in some bother

 

1) Hitler first crucial mistake was ordering the London Blitz

2) Hermann Georing's underestimation had little impact on the outcome.  What he did wrong was promise Hitler a British bomb would never fall on Berlin, as a concequence see number 1.  His other mistake was tying the fighters to the bombers, that was a bad strategy not underestimation.

5) The war was already lost for Germany, Stalingrad was not the turning point the war.  Being one of the only generals to survive the purge makes him default not great.

6)  Iosef was the only man who was more evil than Hitler and killed more people than Hitler (Hitler was 50% evil 50% crazy, Stalin was 100% evil).  And we gave him radar and called him an ally?  Many viewed the Germans as liberators because of Stalin's cruelty, it wasn't until the Germans began their genocide and scorched earth policy did the locals turn against the Germany.

8) Isoroku Yamamoto wanted to avoid war with US, not welcome it.  He did his best to knock to US out in decisive battles and almost did.  It wasn't his fault that the USS Enterprise, the only US Fleet Carrier to start and finish WWII, was slowed down by a tropical storm that prevented her escorts from maintaining top speed (she was due in port on the Dec. 6th). It was Nagumo's decision not to send a third wave to destroy the dry docks and fuel depots at Pearl.  Nor was it his fault that Japanese subs were late on station to intercept US carrier movements prior to the Battle of Midway, or that the catapult on the IJN Tone was faulty delaying the launch of the plane that eventually spotted the USS Yorktown.

View PostDie,HardELOFan86, on 02 May 2015 - 12:06 AM, said:

Most important person in the Allied victory...


 

I don't agree with title or say who was best but I can say this who was most aggressive General and Admiral from U.S. Military.


 

Simply put General George S. Patton and Admiral Chester Nimitz.

Patton was an arrogant P***k ( I mean the Army's version of MacArthur), he sacrificed good men for his personal glory seeking and because strategy wasn't in his vocabulary.  Nimitz on the other hand turned out to be a pretty good carrier admiral for being a cruiser commander.


 

My vote, Hitler lost the war in the west, and Nimitz won the war in East.



DieHardELOFan86 #59 Posted 03 June 2015 - 04:29 PM

    Major

  • Beta Tester
  • 8973 battles
  • 4,061
  • Member since:
    08-13-2013

View PostPanzerwerfer42, on 25 May 2015 - 11:45 AM, said:

1) Hitler first crucial mistake was ordering the London Blitz

2) Hermann Georing's underestimation had little impact on the outcome.  What he did wrong was promise Hitler a British bomb would never fall on Berlin, as a concequence see number 1.  His other mistake was tying the fighters to the bombers, that was a bad strategy not underestimation.

5) The war was already lost for Germany, Stalingrad was not the turning point the war.  Being one of the only generals to survive the purge makes him default not great.

6)  Iosef was the only man who was more evil than Hitler and killed more people than Hitler (Hitler was 50% evil 50% crazy, Stalin was 100% evil).  And we gave him radar and called him an ally?  Many viewed the Germans as liberators because of Stalin's cruelty, it wasn't until the Germans began their genocide and scorched earth policy did the locals turn against the Germany.

8) Isoroku Yamamoto wanted to avoid war with US, not welcome it.  He did his best to knock to US out in decisive battles and almost did.  It wasn't his fault that the USS Enterprise, the only US Fleet Carrier to start and finish WWII, was slowed down by a tropical storm that prevented her escorts from maintaining top speed (she was due in port on the Dec. 6th). It was Nagumo's decision not to send a third wave to destroy the dry docks and fuel depots at Pearl.  Nor was it his fault that Japanese subs were late on station to intercept US carrier movements prior to the Battle of Midway, or that the catapult on the IJN Tone was faulty delaying the launch of the plane that eventually spotted the USS Yorktown.

Patton was an arrogant P***k ( I mean the Army's version of MacArthur), he sacrificed good men for his personal glory seeking and because strategy wasn't in his vocabulary.  Nimitz on the other hand turned out to be a pretty good carrier admiral for being a cruiser commander.


 

My vote, Hitler lost the war in the west, and Nimitz won the war in East.

 

Both Generals served in same branch so which one is worse Douglas McArthur or George S. Patton. We could also add General John J. Pershing but he was General commanding U.S. Army in World War I. But he was another General so call claim by some people that he sacrificed good men.

Signature by METALHELLIONx84, ELO ROCKS !!! thanks METALHELLIONx84 from DieHardELOFan86


Kiwi the Fox #60 Posted 03 June 2015 - 04:47 PM

    First lieutenant

  • Beta Tester
  • 18030 battles
  • 519
  • Member since:
    09-10-2013

View PostSolidGoldCrown, on 02 May 2015 - 11:02 AM, said:

The most vital person to allied success in WWII would be my father. He shined at doing his part with Darby's Rangers at Anzio until losing a leg made it too difficult to continue.

I'm pretty sure there were a few others like him.

 

 

No truer words were ever spoken on this forum.  The world of 2015 owes an immense debt of gratitude that can never be repaid to those who served in the armed forces of the Allies during World War II.


 

God bless your father, sir, and God Bless all veterans of the Allied Armies who served and in great many cases, died to rid civilization of the evil that was Hitler and his Nazi Minions, as well as the evil Empire of Japan.. - As Tom Brokaw so aptly stated, they WERE the "Greatest Generation" and we will never forget them regardless of where they served.


 


 


 


 

"My avatar is the division patch for the 4th Canadian Armored Division, NW Europe 1944-45"   - painted on  Left Front of Vehicle                                                               

 

                                                              





1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users